lol if we even had the 3/4 of the US they wouldent care they just want to make money of war and oil.

 

I'm anti-war. Where can I sign a petition to get the Iranians, to not build a bunch of Nuclear bombs, to give out to their insane, radical Islamic buddies. You know, the ones that want to blow up cities all over the civilized world.

 

Excellent!



1.- Noone in their sane judgement would nuke the "civilized world" as you call it. They don´t do it because they know it would be the entire world protesting and punishing.
2.- The radical insane Islamic buddies is the image the average non-informed citizen has about the Middle East and beyond, and skillfully exploded for the CIA and other intelligence agencies and having the citizens controlled because of the fear. In the 50´s and 60´s were the "commies"; now, the "radical Islamics". The same enemy, different disguise and your neck is tied hard with a fear rope. People who swallows this, will swallow anything.
3.- Search about the physicians against nuclear development movement. If you´re really Anti-war you´d should hear of them before. And they´re not even listened, the powerful militarist and sionist lobby only wants to change YOUR BLOOD for money. Wake up. .
4.- You´re free not to sign. Closing the window is easier to post an answer, though...what damage can do this thread anyway?
5.- How many US cities have been bombed for some radical islamic?....huhhh....
6.- How many Cities in the islamic world have been bombed by US....? That´s the problem when the people just sit and stays watching TV - Faux news, Crap NN...

 

Israelis' will take the first step..

A defensive move..I don't wish U.S. forces to be involved.I hate the thought of innocents dying.More info on the 12th Imam...here.

 

i say bomb them..

 

BAD idea. That alone would never work. Anything else would be 5x as disastrous as occupying Iraq. We think occupying Iraq is bad? Bombing Iran would lead to boots on the ground and a ridiculous predicament would ensue.

 

Bomb them BEFORE hand and look like idiots again? Or hey, let's OCCUPY Iran. Ever been there? I have...It won't BE a cakewalk.

We've got plenty of evidence they are attempting to make bombs, AND the systems to deliver them. Iran almost daily calls for the destruction of parts of the world. I don't see us looking like fools this time. And WHY occupy Iran?

If we were to occupy them, I suggest America re-learn how to fight like we did in WWII. But instead just bomb them, less risk to our soldiers.

Because BOMBING them won't DO the job. Do you actually understand the complexity of their sites? Do you REALLY understand how many they have? This isn't Iraq, brother, and WE can't even handle IRAQ. DO a little more research...

We'll get as many as we can. I'd rather have them attack with at least part of their army/arsenal destroyed then at full strength.

That thinking works really well after 10 miller lites, but that is NOT going to be reality, and will infuriate MORE of the Middle East.

To bad I don't drink. But oh well. That theory worked well enough in WWII for me to think it will work now.

Wow.....Imagine that, we should have tried that in Nam....
Oh, wait....

Except maybe this time not warn them before we do so, and maybe just let the military do it's job. Generals know what they need to do to win a war.

No they won't.....Terrorism isn't a STATE, nor a Nation, it is an ideal. You go and start indiscriminately bombing the hell out of a Nation killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians, you'll understand why you don't have such a say in this.

This "scenario" with Iran has been looked over immensely and the plans drawn up always look miserable

It's an ideal that needs civilian to accept it, and sponsor it. Once the pain of doing so grows to much they will stop their support.

The plans drawn up look miserable, but I wonder what several nukes going off over American cities will look? The "leader" of Iran has stated he wants to bomb America and her allies.

This is like having a neighbor next to you, with a lead melting pot, a few bars of lead, a pound of powder, several primed cases, a reloader, and an empty GUN screaming "I'm going to KILL you as soon as I make these bullets."

Shooting him BEFORE he makes the bullets will be "bad", shooting him AFTER he kills you and your family will be "worse".

 

We've got plenty of evidence they are attempting to make bombs, AND the systems to deliver them. Iran almost daily calls for the destruction of parts of the world. I don't see us looking like fools this time. And WHY occupy Iran?

Why occupy Iran? Because you'd HAVE to...Iran is NOT like Iraq. Its sites are so spread out and secretive. If your idea of simply bombing everything is the "answer" that won't help us in end either.

If we were to occupy them, I suggest America re-learn how to fight like we did in WWII. But instead just bomb them, less risk to our soldiers.

Less risk.....more BLOWBACK. This "war on terror" is about an ideal, terrorism.
This "ideal" can ONLY be won with the battle of hearts and minds. We think Iraq is bad? Setting Iran on FIRE with your plan with destroy the hope of winning the battle for hearts and minds even worse.

To bad I don't drink. But oh well. That theory worked well enough in WWII for me to think it will work now.

That's b/c it was a WORLD WAR....We had a SET ENEMY, remember? You're thinking the wrong type of war just like we're FIGHTING the wrong type of war.

Except maybe this time not warn them before we do so, and maybe just let the military do it's job. Generals know what they need to do to win a war.

Is that so? Generals blew the hell out of Nam...didn't change anything
Generals have had FREE reign in Iraq and Afghanistan....Hasn't changed anything and WORSE. This isn't a war...this is merely an OCCUPATION.

HUGE difference.

It's an ideal that needs civilian to accept it, and sponsor it. Once the pain of doing so grows to much they will stop their support.

The people of Iraq have CONSISTENTLY called on us to leave, remember? You make it sound so "simple" but it is NOT the way you're describing. Occupation does this to a populace. The bs "they will greet us with flowers" is over.....

The plans drawn up look miserable, but I wonder what several nukes going off over American cities will look? The "leader" of Iran has stated he wants to bomb America and her allies.

I wonder why he feels that way? Do you not understand how he feels that way? A Nation next to you is occupied and you're not comprehending this?

This is like having a neighbor next to you, with a lead melting pot, a few bars of lead, a pound of powder, several primed cases, a reloader, and an empty GUN screaming "I'm going to KILL you as soon as I make these bullets."

Ask yourself why your neighbor is PREPARING....

Shooting him BEFORE he makes the bullets will be "bad", shooting him AFTER he kills you and your family will be "worse".

You REALLY need to come to terms with the term blowback before we go any further.

Hitler "pre-empted" Poland in the name of Security and democracy as well, remember? The Bush Doctrine is a FASCIST setup, that is giving us the REALITY we see right now.
It's NOT working...

 

Holy god!!! You guys just LOOOOVE to nit pick each others posts to all hell, don't you? Wheres the popcorn smiley?!?!?! Anyone.......!?!?!

 

Just differences of opinion put into rational discussion.

It's a cool thing, I wish there was more of it.

Thanks guys.

 

Iran is governed by a despicable few. Destroy them and maybe,just maybe the good people can gain power. As it is, doing nothing will lead to war against a nuclear nation.

Very entertaining veiw points from all of you.

 

what?

Iran is governed by a despicable few.

Very wise and open-minded opinion (sarcastic a little here), I guess you´ve a master degree in Middle East recent history. And of course US government with their interventionism, oil EX-CEOs, and Monroe Doctrine minded Military are the best good ol´boys that some country could have...

 

does anybody remember WWII? bombing is the only way to beat a nation into submision. the problem now days is wussies run the country now. troops should only be on the ground in the country we are planning to invade after it has been demolished thus leaving no one left to be a problem. germany and japan were destroyed beyond belief befor we were occupying there soil. remember the U.S military leaders already said that if they had to go to war with iran, they have a 14 day bombing plan that would render that country useless. Im sure our leaders know that iran is not a country to have foot soldiers walking around just like they did with germany before the bombed and burned everything.

 

the problem is they are not going to give us a choice,
they will git them, then they will use them or give them to someone who will,

its not if, its when

 

One last comment on this part:

I wonder why he feels that way? Do you not understand how he feels that way? A Nation next to you is occupied and you're not comprehending this?

Iran felt that way LONG before we "occupied" Iraq.

And this:

This is like having a neighbor next to you, with a lead melting pot, a few bars of lead, a pound of powder, several primed cases, a reloader, and an empty GUN screaming "I'm going to KILL you as soon as I make these bullets."

Ask yourself why your neighbor is PREPARING....

.

Maybe he is preparing because his religion says I must be converted or killed, I've refused to covert so there's only one option left.

Maybe it's because I'm his enemie's buddy.

Maybe it's because he doesn't like the amount of "power" I have.

Maybe he doesn't like that I've used my own "power" to pervert his own.

But in the end what does it matter why? He's preparing to kill me. Do I let him do it? Or kill him first?

The neighbor is refusing to listen to reason, and is leaving us with 2 choices. Let him kill first, or kill him and save your own.

Which option would you choose?

 

One last comment on this part:



Iran felt that way LONG before we "occupied" Iraq.

And our OCCUPATION has NOT helped the area, and doing YOUR plan would make things WORSE.
1) Your " Well they hated us BEFORE" arguement is NOT valid.
2) Iraq and Iran are working TOGETHER now...Think long, and hard about that.

Again....I asked you to come to grips with the term BLOWBACK and how the battle of hearts and minds is the ONLY way to beat an IDEAL. You CANNOT win a "battle" when you create 3 for every 1 you kill....

.

Maybe he is preparing because his religion says I must be converted or killed, I've refused to covert so there's only one option left.

Maybe it's because I'm his enemie's buddy.

Maybe it's because he doesn't like the amount of "power" I have.

Maybe he doesn't like that I've used my own "power" to pervert his own.

But in the end what does it matter why? He's preparing to kill me. Do I let him do it? Or kill him first?

The neighbor is refusing to listen to reason, and is leaving us with 2 choices. Let him kill first, or kill him and save your own.

Maybe it's because of OUR intervention there in a DEMOCRATICALLY elected govt? Remember the Shah? Maybe it's because of OUR occupation right next door? Maybe it's because talking head Pundit Neocon idiots here, and clueless 24 percenter HERE are calling for the destruction/Nuclear wasteland bombing of Iran? Maybe it's because of the Pentagon's Reports that STATE we are hated not for our FREEDOMS, but for our POLICIES?

Which option would you choose?

I choose BASIC common sense...
1) We bomb them, then we GUARANTEE that bases all over the world and civilians all over the world, and here at HOME will be nuked with suitcases. GUARANTEED.

2) We act like AMERICA, and IF (Big IF and the ONLY thing that matters) they attack, they KNOW we will turn it into glass. Iran's "leader" (pssht) is mouthy, but he is NOT stupid.

This is common sense, and doesn't rely on Miller Lite....

 

Do you have a Masters Greg?

 

Look, man, if you´re so desperate about war, then should be heading Iraq, so perhaps you could even help when the bombing starts. If such things happen. . This is a thread for peace. NOT for exposing political "incorrectness". I say: IF they want to use woman as merchandise, let them do it...inside their borders. Sooner or later things will change (do you remember that in US female vote is pretty recent, historically talking) If they want to kill each other because of religious difference, then issue a communication: do it inside your borders, put a boot outside and you´re fried...but...Who the **** do you think you´re for saying their neighbor about how to carry on his life?...have you ever tried to do it in real life?. Short and easy answer: they´re going to try a war, because Iran has oil, and the corporations want it. I´d like to see your face, as a father, when one of your sons receives the letter, knowing that the war is because of the oil, and to try to stop the oil trade becomes in Euros, instead of dollars. WAKE UP. Do you have children?

 

When my neighbor starts to threaten me it becomes MY problem. When Iran threatens MY life, and the life of my family it becomes MY problem. I'm not the type of person that seriously believes big oil runs the country.

I use Accum's Razor as much as possible. Is it easier to think a huge cartel of oil barron's (run by Jews no doubt) runs most of the world, and uses it's power to buy almost every congressman, judge and president? Then uses them to get oil? How much oil have we gotten from Iraq? Has it payed off the war yet?

How will big oil profit, since as soon as we leave the oil belongs to IRAQ and we can't force them to let our companies use it?

Or is it probably that we have egotistical maniacs running most countries, and when they feel the urge they start wars? The only difference I see between the egotistical maniac running America and Iran is that the American leader is honestly stupid. And the Iranian one is probably insane, twisted by his own urge to "convert or kill" as many Jews as possible.

 

1.

In Vietnam they did the same to the children...because they were fighting with an invader power. Don´t forget Vietnam.

What does that have to do with current Muslim terrorists being evil and non human? So now I just add Veit cong to that last? Not exactly the types of company I would want to be in..

2.

Commies is a term wich defines the enemy that the establishment needed back there in 1950s, 60s and became later on in muslim radicalism, so they can manipulate to the people with fear...and take their civil rights for their protection. Think about it.

I did. That's why I posted that. To show the difference between a "perceived" threat, and the REAL threat Muslim extremists pose.

3.

Perhaps if Israel and Iran sit and have a nice chat (without US intervention of course) they could fix their problems

Which has nothing to do with my comment. He attempted to blame the situation on the "powerful Jews". I just pointed out why I doubt that. But don't worry. I see Israel and Iran "sitting down" in the next few months. And seeing how Israel easily penetrated Syria which has the EXACT same air defense radars as Iran I think I know who the winner of that "discussion" will be.

4.

Sure, that´s a very smart solution. And then have a blocked up Ormuz channel.

Which if happens can be fixed.

5.

Noone in their sane judgement would ever nuke USA!.That old retaliation thing. The incident in the Tonkin Gulf was made in laboratory for an excuse to war. They´re trying to do the same now, and unstabilizing the economy is an strategy so the normal average citizen is pretty concerned about paying attention to an one-side, unilateral attack. .

And who would call people that strap bombs to their chests in the name of Allah sane?

6.

I´ve seen pictures of jewish children writing in rocket missiles and bombs... When they take responsibility for the terror <--- and that terrified me!!...

I see a big difference between kids writing on rockets and bombs that will be used in an attempt to kill militants.

And people celebrating when a rocket PURPOSELY fired to kill civilians does so.

 

easy answer: he´s an CIA Agent. There are proofs about he´s involved deeply with Bush family. Just search on the right places.
Reply With Quote

Did his family also help the Japanese attack us in 1941?

 

No, but his family has done business with the Bushs'.....

 

Michael Moore as a source? Binladin is a CIA agent?
Face it Greg, You have been soundly defeated byRmingtn in this debate.

Bet he doesnt even have a Masters Deree. Oh my.

By the way I earned a Business Degree from a well respected university.

 

1) Was Usama Bin Laden used by the CIA in Afghanistan against the Soviets.


YES.....or NO


2) Can you REFUTE MM....I'll wait. You saying Greg's Messenger is WRONG as a SOURCE is NOT evidence, on your part.

3) I've seen nothing but talking points from someone you claim is "winning" some so called "debate"

 

THeoryrealm if you do a little recearch you will find that Falluja is one of the most secure areas in Iraq now. Must have done some good. Semper fi Falluja Marines and Hooaah soldiers.

 

Semper Fi as well

Served with 2/2 and 3/2 90-94 in Iraq and later Bosnia.

My point, will NOT be DIVERTED by the "securedness" of an area.

The POINT, is still....the battle for hearts and minds that "terrorism" is based on, offering a BETTER WAY that what AQ or the Mullah's offer, and the damage done to us by having nephews, uncles, and sons take up the cause from an occupation in Iraq, and the destruction of a place called Fallujah.

BLOWBACK......

 

A Cia agent is sworn by oath to this nation. Don't believe Binladen took that oath.

Didn't Mr.Moor sort of take his money and slink off. Haven't heard much from him lately.

 

Ahh more SEMANTICS...

Ok, he was USED, trained, and FUNDED by the CIA.

Hmm, sounds like any personnel in the CIA to me.....LOL!

 

And our OCCUPATION has NOT helped the area, and doing YOUR plan would make things WORSE.
1) Your " Well they hated us BEFORE" arguement is NOT valid.
2) Iraq and Iran are working TOGETHER now...Think long, and hard about that.

Again....I asked you to come to grips with the term BLOWBACK and how the battle of hearts and minds is the ONLY way to beat an IDEAL. You CANNOT win a "battle" when you create 3 for every 1 you kill....

When they try my "plan" and it doesn't work I'll agree.

But since the current "plan" isn't working I think it's time to try what worked in the past.

What do you mean "Well they hated us BEFORE" is not valid? It is valid for EXACTLY the reason I said it. You said Iran hates us because we are occupying Iraq. I stated that's false as they hated us LONG before them.

Iran and a certain type of Muslim are "together" in Iraq. Isn't it them and the Shiites? While the Kurds and the Sunnies are not with Iraq and their murder squads at all. They have their own murder squads.

Maybe it's because of OUR intervention there in a DEMOCRATICALLY elected govt? Remember the Shah? Maybe it's because of OUR occupation right next door? Maybe it's because talking head Pundit Neocon idiots here, and clueless 24 percenter HERE are calling for the destruction/Nuclear wasteland bombing of Iran? Maybe it's because of the Pentagon's Reports that STATE we are hated not for our FREEDOMS, but for our POLICIES?

Maybe it's simply because the religion of the area has a book that states true Muslims are not to trust non-Muslims, and are not to be friendly with them?

Maybe it's because of ANY one of our reasons?

Who cares? Answer my question; we have a country actively trying to get nuclear bombs, is testing delivery vehicles, and has a leader that states he wants to destroy America.

Do we wait till he launches the bombs to react? Or do we stop him beforehand?

 

When they try my "plan" and it doesn't work I'll agree.

Your "plan" has already been "theoried" out by military analysts. It doesn't work. But hey, join the Citadel, and head on over to the Joint Chief's of Staff and try to pass on your "plan"....

But since the current "plan" isn't working I think it's time to try what worked in the past.

What worked in the past was in a WORLD war. Iran is MUCH more complex that Germany or Japan. Factions, Muslims WORLDWIDE, and terrorism being an "ideal" NOT a country like Germany...Japan...

What do you mean "Well they hated us BEFORE" is not valid? It is valid for EXACTLY the reason I said it. You said Iran hates us because we are occupying Iraq. I stated that's false as they hated us LONG before them.

And WHAT causes them to hate us....Oh that's right....EXACTLY what the pentagon reported. NOT what the ridiculous admin "claims" it is (Freedumbs) but our POLICIES. Our policies (CIA coup, invasions, occupations, bases etc) is what drives hatred to INCREASE. The goal to defeating terrorism (an ideal) is NOT to further infuriate and increase the anger, hatred, and revenge mentality, but to show a better way, by example. Handing "democracy" and "freedom" by leadership, and an EXAMPLE of what America is. We are hated for our policies, PERIOD. To glass over Iran would NOT help us in a war in which the end result has to be based on hearts and minds.

Iran and a certain type of Muslim are "together" in Iraq. Isn't it them and the Shiites? While the Kurds and the Sunnies are not with Iraq and their murder squads at all. They have their own murder squads.

The point is not the clans, nor the murder squads, but the FAILED POLICIES that have brought these two TOGETHER.

 

The Binladen family was the largest construction company in the area. Everyone did business with them.

 

Nice....

 

Securedness of an area? By all means continue.

 

I choose BASIC common sense...
1) We bomb them, then we GUARANTEE that bases all over the world and civilians all over the world, and here at HOME will be nuked with suitcases. GUARANTEED.

2) We act like AMERICA, and IF (Big IF and the ONLY thing that matters) they attack, they KNOW we will turn it into glass. Iran's "leader" (pssht) is mouthy, but he is NOT stupid.

This is common sense, and doesn't rely on Miller Lite....

1. Will happen anyways, unless we remove their ability to make or buy the materials....

2. Iran's leader isn't stupid. He's a religious zealot that thinks going to Allah with hundreds of thousands of dead infidels in his name is the best thing that he can do. Just like all the other suicidal Muslim bombers.

He cares not if we turn Iran to glass, just as long as he takes as many Jews and Americans with him as he can.

 

1. Will happen anyways, unless we remove their ability to make or buy the materials....

Says who, YOU?

2. Iran's leader isn't stupid. He's a religious zealot that thinks going to Allah with hundreds of thousands of dead infidels in his name is the best thing that he can do. Just like all the other suicidal Muslim bombers.

Then why hasn't he nuked us yet? Exactly...

He cares not if we turn Iran to glass, just as long as he takes as many Jews and Americans with him as he can.

So your plan is to bomb him first. Yes....that would REALLy help matters. Again, Military analysts DISAGREE with your "plan".

 

And just so you know, I'm still about half a page behind so I'm not ignoring anything yet. Jsut trying to catch up!

 

No problem.....I'm typing against 2 or 3

 

1) Was Usama Bin Laden used by the CIA in Afghanistan against the Soviets.


YES.....or NO

Yep, along with tens of thousands of others. Does that make him an "agent"?

Nope.

 

Iran more complex than nations that ruled nearly half the world??? What?

 

World War.....

Factions of Iran....

Muslims ALL over the world.....blowback


Study those three BASIC sentences, please?

 

Served with 2/2 and 3/2 90-94 in Iraq and later Bosnia.

My point, will NOT be DIVERTED by the "securedness" of an area.

The POINT, is still....the battle for hearts and minds that "terrorism" is based on, offering a BETTER WAY that what AQ or the Mullah's offer, and the damage done to us by having nephews, uncles, and sons take up the cause from an occupation in Iraq, and the destruction of a place called Fallujah.

BLOWBACK......

But if it worked in that city why can't it work where ever this "blow back" happens?