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MortarMaggot
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This is also the reason I'm against starting children out on .22's. I know, I know, pluck the chickens and boil the tar.

A .22 is easy to fire. Absolutely no recoil, sound isn't deafening and the rounds come in boxes of 500. Usually, when a child is shooting a .22, you have to stop them. They can do it all day long, and now that they know how, do they really have to wait for you?

Start them out with a .410 or 20ga. (I prefer a youth model 20ga.) Even if its just mowing down grass or something similar, let them shoot until they say "I'm done!". And they will. They've experienced the recoil and the concussion, and when they are ready to walk away, you'll never have to worry about them getting and shooting it when you're not there. Then introduce them to .22's.
Having them liking shooting is a good thing, but I agree with not starting on a 22. Should start with a spring loaded bb gun, very low power & most are accurate enough at short range so they really start to desire & appreciate better accuracy and not to waste a bunch of shots. Then move them up to a non auto loading 22, whether it's a lever, pump or bolt action. Shotguns are the worst thing to start them with. Even a 410 has a lot of kick & blast compared to a BB gun & 22. They also teach them to just aim in the general direction & hope you hit something. Just like Carlos Hathcock when he was a kid used to bring home lots of small game to feed his family when he was a boy with his single shot 22. One Christmas he got a new shotgun & he was excited, but after 1/2 a day of using it & not being able to hit what he was aiming at, he went home & got his 22 single shot & never touched the shotgun again.
 

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This is also the reason I'm against starting children out on .22's. I know, I know, pluck the chickens and boil the tar.

A .22 is easy to fire. Absolutely no recoil, sound isn't deafening and the rounds come in boxes of 500. Usually, when a child is shooting a .22, you have to stop them. They can do it all day long, and now that they know how, do they really have to wait for you?

Start them out with a .410 or 20ga. (I prefer a youth model 20ga.) Even if its just mowing down grass or something similar, let them shoot until they say "I'm done!". And they will. They've experienced the recoil and the concussion, and when they are ready to walk away, you'll never have to worry about them getting and shooting it when you're not there. Then introduce them to .22's.
It really depends on the kid. I started my son out with an airsoft at 6 to teach him firearm safety and the rules of handling. Once he showed that he could do all of that, he shot a high powered pellet gun at 7, then a .22lr pistol and rifle at 8. At 12 he was shooting my HK P7 9mm and at 14 his favorite is the HK P30 .40, he learned on an airsoft P30.

We spent allot of time doing this and there was never any mystique about the guns. He knew I would take him shooting when ever he wanted and he got to shoot whatever he wanted when he wanted, from Ar's to HK53's and HK93's.

It's good knowing your kids can be trusted and protect themselves when you're away. I also realize my son is pretty mature for his age as well.
 

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I’ve decided to buy a gun, how do I get started?

Deciding to buy a firearm can be overwhelming, or anti-climactic, depending on how you go about it. Trying to buy something you don’t understand is stressful , but you can change that.

So what do you do? I recommend first finding a gun range and take an NRA sanctioned safety course for beginners. I know, you’ve been told all your life that the NRA wants to kill and eat your children. Thats not the only thing “they” have lied to you about, but that’s for another day. The National Rifle Association is the premiere firearms safety and training organization. Almost every professional firearms instructor is Certified to teach by the NRA.

If you can’t afford a safety course, get on Youtube and watch every gun safety video you can. That is WAAAAY better than nothing and will at least give you a bit of a head start.

Hopefully, you can find a local range that rents a variety of different handguns and some will even rent rifles and carbines you can try. Rent some and shoot them. Decide for yourself which one fits your needs, then buy it. Then learn everything you can about maintaining it. Firearms are mechanical devices and MUST be maintained. If you can’t keep it in proper working order, it will fail you when you need it most.

What is the best gun for Survival purposes?

Simple answer, the one you have. Very rarely will you have time to “go get” your survival stuff. If its not on you when the SHTF, odds are you won’t have it. That goes for your knife, lighter, flash light, multi-tool etc. Have you ever tried to charge something and remembered you left your credit card at home? It will feel like that, only worse. Use the Forum “search” function and look up “EDC” (short for Every Day Carry). There will be a wealth of suggestions, many examples and even some pictures. We’ll get into this later.

What gun should I buy for a SHTF gun?

Unfortunately, there is no simple answer for this one. This has been debated ad nauseam on this Forum and others. After almost 55 years of playing with firearms, here’s my suggestion;

The one you’re most comfortable with, shoot the best, and can maintain the best.

Kind of anti-climactic, huh? Well, this is the best suggestion I can provide. It will do no good to purchase a .44 Magnum revolver and expect your Wife, children or anyone that’s new to firearms to effectively use it. They won’t practice with it enough to be good with it, at least not in the first 10 or 20 years.

What should I start out with, a rifle, shotgun or a handgun?

Only you can answer that. What are you going to want it to do? The old gun store question “I’m going to Alaska to hunt Kodiak Grizzlies, but I’ll also want to hunt squirrels with it and by the way, I need to conceal carry it, too. What do you suggest?”

Establish what your needs are; do you want to use it as a CCW, do you want to defend your bug-out location, will you need to hunt with it, are you wanting to take 1000 yard shots at magpies pillaging your blackberry patch? Each use requires a different tool. Decide what your most common need is, and address that. Some choices are versatile, and can do different things. Others are specific, and somewhat limited in what they can do, but they’ll do the job they are designed for very, very well. You just need to know the limitations of your choice.

My friend told me to get a 22mm Boominticker, that’s what he uses.

To paraphrase the Legendary Col. Jeff Cooper, “Asking a friend what gun to use is like asking the bellboy what wine to have with dinner. He might know, but do you want to bet your life on it?”

Every single person that owns a firearm has a bias, whether it is because of his choice, favoritism or loyalty. “My Daddy showed me how to shoot when I was 3 with his 12ga.” Thats all fine and dandy, but might not be right for you. Question the motives of someone who offers a specific suggestion. Are they trying to sell you something? Are the trying to justify a bad decision they made? Or are they overstating their knowledge? This is another “you” decision.

What caliber is best for self defense?

Boy, if I had a dime for every word that’s been written on that subject. The best caliber? The one you can hit the target with every time you fire it. The old adage “ hits with a .22 are way better than miss’s with a .45” is very true. All the power in the world is wasted if you miss your target. And todays new bullets perform better than ever, with more consistent expansion and great penetration. But it all come down to hitting your target.

I like to sum it up this way; Accuracy is King. Penetration is Queen. Everything else is just Angels dancing on the heads of pins.

Ok, I’ve bought my new “Wonderboomer”, how often should I practice?

You should shoot 500-750 rounds per day for at least 3 years.

Are you done laughing yet? Shooting is like any other activity. Practice makes perfect. How long did it take you to master bowling? Tennis? Chess? That damn stair master at the gym?

No one is born a natural marksman. All of the great shooters from history had one thing in common. Practice. If you buy your firearm, shoot it a few times and lock it up in the closet, you might just as well not have bought it. You need to practice as much as you can, until you can perform at a level that is acceptable to you. That could be 50-100 rounds a week, or every 2 weeks, or every month. Only your life and your wallet get to choose your schedule. But you will need to practice. Figure that in to your cost.

In a perfect world, what should I have to cover all the bases in a SHTF situation?

Again, as many answers as the people you ask. Some will say a .22 rifle, because of the amount of ammo that can be stockpiled or carried along with the versatility. Others will insist it must be an AK47, AR15 etc. Some say it must be a pistol so it can be easily concealed. And they all have merit.

But once again, what will fit your needs? Will you be staying at your home and riding out the SHTF situation? Will you be heading to a bug-out location? How will you get there, riding or walking? Take my word for it, you don’t want to go on walk-about toting an M1a and 10 spare magazines.

Theres a lot to be said for the 3 gun battery, a rifle, shotgun and pistol. You would be well prepared if you had one of each available to you, with the intent to carry only 1 of the long guns if you have to travel anywhere on foot.

What is an "EDC"

EDC is an acronym for Every Day Carry and refers to the items you carry everyday. Some include their wallet, keys and change in this. Most refer to the items carried in relation to their Concealed Carry Weapon, CCW.

What should I carry for EDC?

You should carry what you need, and what you think you might need, within reason.
“With in reason?”
Yes. If you are not walking through Death Valley in some ‘Stan, you won’t need a plate carrier, 6 magazines and an M4. Tailor your choices to the environment you’re going to be in. If you feel a threat level increase because of a destination you’re going to out of your normal comfort zone, adjust accordingly.

For me, in addition to my keys, wallet and money clip, my CCW, a spare magazine, an auto-opening pocket knife (legal where I live because I have a Concealed Weapons Permit. Know your local laws.), and a multi-tool (Leatherman REV) are with me from the time I put my pants on until I take them off at night. I state this as an example, and in no way suggest this would be right for you. Only you can decide what’s right for you. If you search “EDC” on the forum, you will get some ideas of how diverse the Members are in their choices for EDC.

Some safety tips by Mr. Sockpuppet;

ALWAYS Keep The Gun Pointed In A Safe Direction
This is the primary rule of gun safety. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

ALWAYS Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Ready To Shoot
When holding a gun, rest your finger alongside the frame and outside the trigger guard. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

ALWAYS Keep The Gun Unloaded Until Ready To Use
If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

Know how to use the gun safely.
Before handling a gun, learn how it operates. Know its basic parts, how to safely open and close the action and remove any ammunition from the gun or magazine. Remember, a gun's mechanical safety device is never foolproof. Nothing can ever replace safe gun handling.

Be sure the gun is safe to operate.
Just like other tools, guns need regular maintenance to remain operable. Regular cleaning and proper storage are a part of the gun's general upkeep. If there is any question concerning a gun's ability to function, a knowledgeable gunsmith should look at it.

Use only the correct ammunition for your gun.
Only BBs, pellets, cartridges or shells designed for a particular gun can be fired safely in that gun. Most guns have the ammunition type stamped on the barrel. Ammunition can be identified by information printed on the box and sometimes stamped on the cartridge. Do not shoot the gun unless you know you have the proper ammunition.

Wear eye and ear protection as appropriate.
Guns are loud and the noise can cause hearing damage. They can also emit debris and hot gasses that could cause eye injury. For these reasons, shooting glasses and hearing protection should be worn by shooters and spectators.

Never use alcohol, or mind altering over-the-counter/prescription drugs when handling firearms.
Alcohol, as well as any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical bodily functions, must not be used before or while handling or shooting guns.

Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons.
Many factors must be considered when deciding where and how to store guns. A person's particular situation will be a major part of the consideration. Dozens of gun storage devices, as well as locking devices that attach directly to the gun, are available. However, mechanical locking devices, like the mechanical safeties built into guns, can fail and should not be used as a substitute for safe gun handling and the observance of all gun-safety rules.

Additional Safety Precautions
Be aware that certain types of guns and many shooting activities require additional safety precautions.

Cleaning
Regular cleaning is important in order for your gun to operate correctly and safely. Taking proper care of it will also maintain its value and extend its life. Your gun should be cleaned every time that it is used.
A gun brought out of prolonged storage should also be cleaned before shooting. Accumulated moisture and dirt, or solidified grease and oil, can prevent the gun from operating properly.
Before cleaning your gun, make absolutely sure that it is unloaded. The gun's action should be open during the cleaning process. Also, be sure that no ammunition is present in the cleaning area.
A .22LR round is great for rabbit, and a .308 for deer, but the calibers are not interchangeable for either, and for a number of good reasons.

Handguns may be fine instruments for everyday carry and convenience, but are generally outperformed by rifles and shotguns.

A firearm is not a substitute for the application of good sense.
Antifa thank you. Moms demand action thank you and give you a 1-week extension to turn in that those ass-ault guns.
 

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MortarMaggot
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3,290 Posts
WTF....I don’t understand your post. Is it some sort of code?
He's the maroon that thinks we shouldn't welcome and/or help new shooters to the club, especially one's who didn't see the value of owning a firearm prior to March of 2020. Considering he didn't join this site till March of this year, I wonder if as the old axiom goes, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." might be appropriate. It could also be said the newer axiom "Don't feed the trolls" might be just as appropriate. :thumb:
 

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This is an algorithm of sorts and assumes a shooter has no idea what they want. You work down the algorithm and stop at the first one that is true - it's really a quite brilliant set of rules.

1. Shooter has diminished hand / grip strength and is recoil averse
SW Shield EZ 380 - no thumb safety

2. Shooter has diminished hand / grip strength but can tolerate 9 mm recoil
SW Shield EZ 9 mm - no thumb safety

3. Shooter can afford a Glock 19 and has hands that can properly grip Glock 19
Glock 19

4. Shooter can afford a Glock 19 but has hands that can NOT properly grip Glock 19
Glock 48

5. Shooter can't afford Glock 19 but can afford SW Shield
SW Shield - no thumb safety

6. Shooter can't afford SW Shield
Taurus G3 or G2S

7. Shooter can't afford as Taurus - they have more pressing issues in their life than buying a firearm


Before you all get the vapors think about it a minute and admit I'm right. A shooter with no
idea about firearms will not know something may 'fit them' better than one of the firearms
listed so will not worry about it an will be able to shoot it just fine if they train with
it once in a while, which most will not.

The Shield EZ is without a doubt the firearm for those with reduced grip and hand strenght.

If someone can afford a Glock as get enough experience to decide something might be 'better' for
then, very unlikely but possible. They can get darn near all their money back from a Glock.

The shield at $350 or even $300 is an amazing thing.

The new Tarus are night and day better than some of the past offerings, seems somebody read a book
on quality control.

Sad fact of things is if a person can't afford a Taurus they have other things in their life
that are more pressing than buying a firearm.

Thank me
 

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555 Posts
This is also the reason I'm against starting children out on .22's. I know, I know, pluck the chickens and boil the tar.

A .22 is easy to fire. Absolutely no recoil, sound isn't deafening and the rounds come in boxes of 500. Usually, when a child is shooting a .22, you have to stop them. They can do it all day long, and now that they know how, do they really have to wait for you?

Start them out with a .410 or 20ga. (I prefer a youth model 20ga.) Even if its just mowing down grass or something similar, let them shoot until they say "I'm done!". And they will. They've experienced the recoil and the concussion, and when they are ready to walk away, you'll never have to worry about them getting and shooting it when you're not there. Then introduce them to .22's.
First gun I ever shot was a 20ga break action single shot. I was 5 and too small to hold it, so Dad laid me down prone. Busted my lip good and rang my ears. We never had any gun cabinets that locked or trigger locks. Ammo was in the cabinet at the bottom with the guns. I like shooting and hunting, but I knew guns were tools. We got them out when we needed them, used them, and cleaned them before putting them up. I got in lots of scrapes in school, but never did I think I needed to get a gun to settle them, even if I came out the loser. Part of that is also attributed to my WWII Veteran Papaw. With very few details, he shared in his own way how taking lives made him feel. No Call Of Duty Gung ho macho crap, but real down in the mud, you or him stuff. Gives real perspective.

I fully agree that training kids can take away the "cool" factor that gets so many hurt. They are tools like a pocket knife, shovel, or backhoe and you have to understand their potential dangers.

Also +1 on the "You have to decide for yourself and your situation". I see too may people buy a gun because their brother's girlfriend's Dad's old Army Buddy said it is best. Then they hate it and it sets in a drawer.
 

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Curmudgeon
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1,717 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
This is an algorithm of sorts and assumes a shooter has no idea what they want. You work down the algorithm and stop at the first one that is true - it's really a quite brilliant set of rules.

1. Shooter has diminished hand / grip strength and is recoil averse
SW Shield EZ 380 - no thumb safety

2. Shooter has diminished hand / grip strength but can tolerate 9 mm recoil
SW Shield EZ 9 mm - no thumb safety

3. Shooter can afford a Glock 19 and has hands that can properly grip Glock 19
Glock 19

4. Shooter can afford a Glock 19 but has hands that can NOT properly grip Glock 19
Glock 48

5. Shooter can't afford Glock 19 but can afford SW Shield
SW Shield - no thumb safety

6. Shooter can't afford SW Shield
Taurus G3 or G2S

7. Shooter can't afford as Taurus - they have more pressing issues in their life than buying a firearm


Before you all get the vapors think about it a minute and admit I'm right. A shooter with no
idea about firearms will not know something may 'fit them' better than one of the firearms
listed so will not worry about it an will be able to shoot it just fine if they train with
it once in a while, which most will not.

The Shield EZ is without a doubt the firearm for those with reduced grip and hand strenght.

If someone can afford a Glock as get enough experience to decide something might be 'better' for
then, very unlikely but possible. They can get darn near all their money back from a Glock.

The shield at $350 or even $300 is an amazing thing.

The new Tarus are night and day better than some of the past offerings, seems somebody read a book
on quality control.

Sad fact of things is if a person can't afford a Taurus they have other things in their life
that are more pressing than buying a firearm.

Thank me
While I appreciate you taking the time to share that, it goes against the premise of the opening post by recommending both a manufacturer and caliber for a "first" gun. I don't want this to become filled with "this is the best" "no mine is the best" posts.
 

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Banned
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i dont agree. A gun that you cant even get visiible fast enough is worthless. It's not even a threat, cause the attackers dont believe that you have one. I've drawn a gun on men 6x in my life and only once had to fire (a warning shot) because it was dark and they couldn't see my pistol. Power doesn't matter until you get a hit. accuracy does'n't matter if you didn't have to shoot. If you hit somebody with a bullet, you just wrote a check for $50,000 trying to stay out of prison and "un-sued". it could easily be 1/2 million$, too. It's far preferable for your speed of draw, the determined look on your face, etc, to run off the pos's, than to have to hit them with any gun. MISSES, with any caliber, have changed a lot of minds, too. Sure, sure, some will not run off, some will be so close that it's too late to do anything but fire, but then skill doesn't mean much, eh? certainly the need for accuracy is virtually nil.
 

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While I appreciate you taking the time to share that, it goes against the premise of the opening post by recommending both a manufacturer and caliber for a "first" gun. I don't want this to become filled with "this is the best" "no mine is the best" posts.
well I'm glad you appreciate it but it's unfortunate you don't see the correctness if not brilliance of it.

as I said in the unlikely event the new shooter got the training or even enough practice to decide something better fit their needs they'd still have an outstanding firearm or in the case of Glock and SW could sell it for darn near what they paid for it
 

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Banned
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i dont agree. A gun that you cant even get visiible fast enough is worthless. It's not even a threat, cause the attackers dont believe that you have one. I've drawn a gun on men 6x in my life and only once had to fire (a warning shot) --snip--.
sniff sniff

does anyone else smell that

cow no not cow

bull ....

:rolleyes:
 

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Curmudgeon
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1,717 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
well I'm glad you appreciate it but it's unfortunate you don't see the correctness if not brilliance of it.

as I said in the unlikely event the new shooter got the training or even enough practice to decide something better fit their needs they'd still have an outstanding firearm or in the case of Glock and SW could sell it for darn near what they paid for it
Actually, very little brilliance or correctness and plenty of ego.

Your recommendations are only for semi-automatic handguns. Not everyone can load and rack the slide on a semi-automatic pistol, regardless of caliber.

Each individuals needs are unique.
 

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Curmudgeon
Joined
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1,717 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
i dont agree. A gun that you cant even get visiible fast enough is worthless. It's not even a threat, cause the attackers dont believe that you have one. I've drawn a gun on men 6x in my life and only once had to fire (a warning shot) because it was dark and they couldn't see my pistol. Power doesn't matter until you get a hit. accuracy does'n't matter if you didn't have to shoot. If you hit somebody with a bullet, you just wrote a check for $50,000 trying to stay out of prison and "un-sued". it could easily be 1/2 million$, too. It's far preferable for your speed of draw, the determined look on your face, etc, to run off the pos's, than to have to hit them with any gun. MISSES, with any caliber, have changed a lot of minds, too. Sure, sure, some will not run off, some will be so close that it's too late to do anything but fire, but then skill doesn't mean much, eh? certainly the need for accuracy is virtually nil.
This thread isn't for bravado or opinions on gunfighting. Its strictly for new people who have questions about selection, purchasing and simple suggestions on gun safety.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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33,454 Posts
SInce there are many different options and situations, maybe a way to make some sort of decision tree spreadsheet?

User would plug in their budget, pick and or prioritize (by a weighting number) the main uses, their body weight and strength, and then it would provide a couple of recommendations.

Just a thought.
 

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Curmudgeon
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1,717 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
SInce there are many different options and situations, maybe a way to make some sort of decision tree spreadsheet?

User would plug in their budget, pick and or prioritize (by a weighting number) the main uses, their body weight and strength, and then it would provide a couple of recommendations.

Just a thought.
That would work if you could accurately measure hand strength and dexterity.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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33,454 Posts
That would work if you could accurately measure hand strength and dexterity.

I was thinking you could have the user simply input a strength option, picking from Arthritis condition , to normal female, normal male, 300 lb gorilla.

That would tend to indicate how much recoil they could handle to the hands for a handgun or to the shoulder for rifles and shotguns.

Then you could see the size and range of things they might need to shoot and how they prioritize those targets and pick something that fits their needs.

Also an input could be if they require concealed carry, or will be hiking long distances, or just sitting at home and defending or taking game out their back door.

Just a thought.

If you make it into a cell phone app, you might make some money with it.

I just did a quick search and don't find that anyone had written something like this yet.
 

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sniff sniff

does anyone else smell that

cow no not cow

bull ....

:rolleyes:

eff you very much, punk, I've got witnesses to several of the occasions. there were a couple more, actually, but one i just fired over some thieve's heads, 1969, who were 100m away and running. One was in high school, same year, cause a punk like you tried to take my buddy's switch blade. I showed him the muzzle of an Iver Johnson 22 revolver and got it back. Gillespie, Ill. somebody snitched and the principle, Ernie Biorgina, searched my locker, but I'd stashed it and my throwing knife in a ball closet in the girls' locker room, between the ceiling and the roof. I was scared to try to get them during school hours, so 3 nights later, I broke a window in the E side of the gym, up at the top of the bleachers, after climbing up a pipe to the roof of the entranceway. Ran in and got them. Took the time to throw the glass outside, and it was never reported as a burglary. You could run around the top of the bleachers, and it had broken out in a perfect half moon about 7" long, 4" high, when I hit it with the butt of the screwdriver.
 

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Curmudgeon
Joined
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1,717 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
It's not just recoil, but the ability to load (magazines are hard on older hands), rack the slide (ditto) and generally manipulate the controls.

But the idea does have merit.
 
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