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http://news.yahoo.com/vote-delayed-debt-bill-default-date-looms-010308473.html

"...Obama called the Republican bill a waste of time..."

and

"...The United States will be unable to borrow money to pay its bills if Congress does not raise the debt limit by August 2. That could result in an unprecedented default that could push the already fragile economy back into recession..."

Just snips of some yahoo article that I thought was interesting...
 

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Money has no value, make more, borrow more, say you have more then you have. It's all just faith in empty promises.

Every time money exchanges hands it costs someone somewhere interest or tax. Where does it stop? we can't pay our current debt because we owe more then was ever created. How can we ever get back to a "zero" on the balance sheet?
 

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http://news.yahoo.com/vote-delayed-debt-bill-default-date-looms-010308473.html

"...Obama called the Republican bill a waste of time..."

and

"...The United States will be unable to borrow money to pay its bills if Congress does not raise the debt limit by August 2. That could result in an unprecedented default that could push the already fragile economy back into recession..."

Just snips of some yahoo article that I thought was interesting...
So if we raise the debt limit and spend another couple of trillion it will fix the economy and pull us out of recession in 20 minutes???? I DON'T THINK SO.

We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem and until we attack the overspending we will see our ratings diminish.

Great snip by the way.

PS We don't have any money in our checking account,,,, but we have plenty of checks so let's write them,,,,, NOT
 

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We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem and until we attack the overspending we will see our ratings diminish.
Many corporations, including General Electric and Exxon-Mobil, have made billions in profits while using loopholes to avoid paying any federal income taxes.

We lose $100 billion every year in federal revenue from companies and individuals who stash their wealth in tax havens off-shore like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.

The sum of all the revenue collected by the Treasury today totals just 14.8% of our gross domestic product, the lowest in about 50 years.

Oh yeah we have a revenue problem.
 

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Many corporations, including General Electric and Exxon-Mobil, have made billions in profits while using loopholes to avoid paying any federal income taxes.

We lose $100 billion every year in federal revenue from companies and individuals who stash their wealth in tax havens off-shore like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
I've debated this with myself for a long time. I owned a corporation a few years back. I just passed any taxes along to the customer because my corporation couldn't avoid them. That's probably what would happen if the "loopholes" were eliminated for the major corporations. Not sayin' it is right or wrong, but I believe the cost of goods would go up significantly if this happened.
 

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I've debated this with myself for a long time. I owned a corporation a few years back. I just passed any taxes along to the customer because my corporation couldn't avoid them. That's probably what would happen if the "loopholes" were eliminated for the major corporations. Not sayin' it is right or wrong, but I believe the cost of goods would go up significantly if this happened.
Politics aside, so what? Maybe some stuff should just cost more. What's wrong with the mentality that not everybody deserves everything?
 

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Politics aside, so what? Maybe some stuff should just cost more. What's wrong with the mentality that not everybody deserves everything?
Oh, I'm sure some things should cost more. We have lots of things that are subsidized and lots of things that are price "fixed". Competition and demand should determine what a suitable price would be. Just seems like additional taxes are somewhat artificial price increases because a business is in existence to make a profit. Either the additional cost gets passed through, or it is deducted from the profit. The shareholders who invest in the business and ultimately own it would like to see a return from their investment.

Not sure what you mean in your other question. I don't begrudge anyone anything they've earned. If I wanted to be rich, I would have kept my business and worked myself to death. I decided other things were more important in life.
 

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Oh, I'm sure some things should cost more. We have lots of things that are subsidized and lots of things that are price "fixed". Competition and demand should determine what a suitable price would be. Just seems like additional taxes are somewhat artificial price increases because a business is in existence to make a profit. Either the additional cost gets passed through, or it is deducted from the profit. The shareholders who invest in the business and ultimately own it would like to see a return from their investment.

Not sure what you mean in your other question. I don't begrudge anyone anything they've earned. If I wanted to be rich, I would have kept my business and worked myself to death. I decided other things were more important in life.
to that samepoint look at those who complain about the debt ceiling and your point of things costing more. same goes with illegal imigration. you kick out the cheap labor replace it with those who say those jobs were stolen increase the wages cause we know those complaining wont work for the low wages the illegal was making and prices go up. if the party now demanding cap's are serious they would look at caps in thier wages. cuts. they would look at cutting thier own staff and start sharing general staff. balance. they would balance the budget not only when the other party is in power but when thier own is. we need to cut across the board. that means defense spending. that means any entitlement not paid for right now through line items deducted in your pay stub. if its deducted it shouldnt be touched outside of raising the age of being able to withdraw.

but hey in 08 the tea party was demanding not to touch thier ss. lol
 

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to that samepoint look at those who complain about the debt ceiling and your point of things costing more. same goes with illegal imigration. you kick out the cheap labor replace it with those who say those jobs were stolen increase the wages cause we know those complaining wont work for the low wages the illegal was making and prices go up.
Agreed. The thing that makes the situation with the illegal immirants a negative is that we are in a global economy. We could replace their low wages with higher wages from our countrymen. Even though wages would be higher, the prices would necessarily go up, too. Kinda like a "Catch 22"......

We could probably survive that scenario within the country, but look at all the things we import from other countries with lower labor rates. I believe there would come a point that we could no longer produce here because our costs/prices would not be able to compete globally.


if the party now demanding cap's are serious they would look at caps in thier wages. cuts. they would look at cutting thier own staff and start sharing general staff. balance. they would balance the budget not only when the other party is in power but when thier own is. we need to cut across the board. that means defense spending. that means any entitlement not paid for right now through line items deducted in your pay stub. if its deducted it shouldnt be touched outside of raising the age of being able to withdraw.
Agreed again. If we are going to reduce spending, we need to do it everywhere in some proated manner. Do you think any of the folks in Washington would cut their own salaries?

but hey in 08 the tea party was demanding not to touch thier ss. lol
I believe SS is one of the line items deducted on your pay stub with an additional contribution by your employer. As you say, "it shouldn't be touched outside of raising the age of being able to withdraw."
 

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Oh, I'm sure some things should cost more. We have lots of things that are subsidized and lots of things that are price "fixed". Competition and demand should determine what a suitable price would be. Just seems like additional taxes are somewhat artificial price increases because a business is in existence to make a profit. Either the additional cost gets passed through, or it is deducted from the profit. The shareholders who invest in the business and ultimately own it would like to see a return from their investment.

Not sure what you mean in your other question. I don't begrudge anyone anything they've earned. If I wanted to be rich, I would have kept my business and worked myself to death. I decided other things were more important in life.
I too made the decision years ago to go the direction of other things in life were more important. I have worked hard and been diligent throughout the years and am comfortable, not rich. After looking back I would do it again in a heartbeat. You just can't buy the more important things in life.
 

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Many corporations, including General Electric and Exxon-Mobil, have made billions in profits while using loopholes to avoid paying any federal income taxes.

We lose $100 billion every year in federal revenue from companies and individuals who stash their wealth in tax havens off-shore like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.

The sum of all the revenue collected by the Treasury today totals just 14.8% of our gross domestic product, the lowest in about 50 years.

Oh yeah we have a revenue problem.
Which is one reason why we need the fair tax or flat tax, along with drug dealers, pimps, prostitutes, etc. You don't think they file taxes every year do you? 10-15% sales tax with a small cap for things like food, clothing, automobiles and homes. The rich that are SMART enough don't pay taxes. The "poor" don't pay taxes either and get free money April 15th of every year.

It is then up to you to live within your means. It inceitivizes the creation and earning of wealth not demonizes it.
 

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From my understanding of many hours from think tanks and semminars about the US and Europe. Both countrys have different situations. But both will have defalts no madder what. The mold is cast. And we have all been screwed, glued and tatood.
Countrys in Europe like Greece, Portugal, Ireland will be the first to get out and, start to print money. Italy, Spain or both will follow suit. These countrys only way out, is to print there own money. Staying in the Euro will be death for them. Germany,France and Holland will most likely raise interets rate to high leves to combat the other countrys leaving in an effort to save the Euro for them. So, The Euro will not die. But it will drop way down before interest rates help them recover. But they will have to be on guard for Hypoflation.
The most likely senario in the US will be A: Kick the can for the a short turm, and print more. B: Tax and print baby. This will lead to more lost jobs, higher inflation, with a good possiblity of Hyper inflation when all the banks nuke the economy when they flood all the TARP cash they have in vaults.
C: Cut 4+ Trillion ASAP and cap all spending for 10 years.
Also, futurea wildcard is Oil.

My take ATM...
 

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This country can only get back up after falling down, and I don't think we have fallen far enough yet. Things are out of control and unless the average American citizen wakes up and takes control again we are lost. A long term crash will result in riots, which will result in civil war and this country could be broken into several smaller countries.

Time to wake up America and bring back common sense to our government.
 

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Oh, I'm sure some things should cost more. We have lots of things that are subsidized and lots of things that are price "fixed". Competition and demand should determine what a suitable price would be. Just seems like additional taxes are somewhat artificial price increases because a business is in existence to make a profit. Either the additional cost gets passed through, or it is deducted from the profit. The shareholders who invest in the business and ultimately own it would like to see a return from their investment.

Not sure what you mean in your other question. I don't begrudge anyone anything they've earned. If I wanted to be rich, I would have kept my business and worked myself to death. I decided other things were more important in life.
So what you're saying is that people who start up or invest in bussinesses should make however much they want? And that the if the demand isn't there or the bussiness isn't worth what the owners and investors want it to the gov't. should make up the differance?

What I mean by the second question is this. Say you start a sneaker company and you want to charge $300 a pair for them. If the majority of the people can't afford $300 sneakers it's not up to the govt. to give me $300 for your sneakers. But it's not up to them to protect your investment either. You either sell your sneakers cheaper, or yoy sell less of them.
 

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Barrack is the waste of time. That ole boy sure did have a great smile during the election though didn't he? Oh boy....and walking around using that blackberry was super cool! Even media personalities like Chris Matthews talked of getting a tingle around his crouch area just watching ole Barrack! Maybe the fools in this nation will look beyond the "cool factor" when electing the next President! If we make it that long that is.
 

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to shouldnt be touched outside of raising the age of being able to withdraw.

but hey in 08 the tea party was demanding not to touch thier ss. lol
I paid into SS my wholle life...............Forced to just like you.
Why is it wrong that I assume I have a RIGHT to that money I paid in?

In the same instance I do despise the democratice govt we have that took MY and YOUR money from OUR SS and gave it to the welfare queens and their litters of illeterate drug using useless eaters to survive on.


I dont think the tea party really existed in 08.........but I was also demanding the creeps on the potomac keep their word regarding MY SS.........

oh and hello there fellow sooner:thumb:
 
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