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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so for the past few years my MBR has been a converted saiga 7.62x39. Which in it's own right isn't a bad thing at all. I love AK's. The design just works. All be it a some what stolen design.

I am pretty hardcore into weapons history. So seeing where all modern select fire magazine fed assault rifles came from. (The MP44-45) This leads me right back to the G3 design rifle.

Comparing apples to oranges here but... The AK-47 design is cheap. Made from cheap parts and just rivited together. (flame on!)
The G3 design is craftsmanship incarnate. With welding and fitment. An eye for detail. Not a firearm made to boost a morale and love for country.

I think the AK really became popular not only because of it's reliability by the sheer numbers out there. Since it was so easy to make. And basically a trained monkey could build one. Hell people build ak's in their basement all the time. You don't hear a lot of people building G3 rifles.

But I digress:

Since owning an AK I feel like it's just not cutting the mustard for me. My eyes are set on a higher prize. A serious battle rifle. I'm not saying the ak isn't that. But for accuracy sake and the power of the .308, look ,feel. Nothing beats the heavy hitters in that department.

I have fallen in love with the G3 design. If you couldn't tell.:rolleyes:

So I'm back to being set on the PTR-91 G.I. at $899 it's not a bad price for an MBR in .308.

Sure I could go Saiga .308. But the charging handle on the wrong side of the gun is just one of many of my complaints. I'm right handed. Charging handle should be on the left. Duh.

Anyway...I was going to see which is the better of the two models of PTR.

91F or 91G.I.?

I could use all the feed back I can get. Please talk me out of buying one of these expensive rifles.:D:
 

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Veritas Aequitas
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GI Pros: simplicity, lighter, reliability across greater variety of ammo choices (aka tar sealed surplus ammo)
91F Pros: tighter tolerances, greater accuracy, adaptability for accessories & optics, better finish

The GI will eat anything (reportedly due to looser chamber tolerances) and is lighter due to the plastic handguard and lighter barrel. The 91F is more accurate (heavy/fluted/bull barrels) and the handguard is set up for rails. The welded scope rail available on the 91F seems to open up a lot of optics options, but I think the GI is only available with the claw mount. So it really depends on what your needs are.

I have some of the MSG91 "perimeter" rifles, and they seem ideal for controlling a given peice of land while remaining semi-stationary.



But if I had to hump the rifle any distance I'd want something more like the GI with iron sights (actually, I'd rather some sort of folder in .223 if I had to hike out). No matter what you decide on, send it to somebody like Bill Springfield for a trigger job. Small amount of $ spent on trigger work = BIG difference with these rifles
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Lets put it this way. I'm not a small guy. I'm 6'8" and am 275lbs. So 10lbs of rifle aint gona slow me down.

I'm wondering if the PTR91F isn't the way to go? Seriously, When am I going to come across tar sealed ammunition? But the G.I. on the other hand will shoot anything. Hard choice.

The G.I. can take the claw mount which allows for the use of the irons. The welded mount on the F seems like all you'd have to do is get some see thru rings but I'm not sure if that would omit irons?

Also. What is with people not knowing how to properly reload a G3 type rifle?
I always see people empty the magazine, drop the mag, insert the new magazine, pull cocking handle back then release, fire.
I always thought you empty magazine, pull back cocking handle and lock it, drop magazine, insert new magazine, slap cocking handle forward which chambers a round, then fire. Seems more logical the 2nd way. Maybe it's just me.
 

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Veritas Aequitas
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Also. What is with people not knowing how to properly reload a G3 type rifle?

Method 1:
a) empty the magazine, b) drop the mag, c) insert the new magazine, d) pull cocking handle back then release, e) fire.

Method 2:
a) empty magazine, b) pull back cocking handle, c) lock it, d) drop magazine, e) insert new magazine, f) slap cocking handle forward, g) then fire.

Seems more logical the 2nd way. Maybe it's just me.
I added some formatting to make my point. As you can see method #2 adds additional motions/steps. In the interest of efficiency and getting back in the fight ASAP I think most would end up going to method #1 sooner or later. Slapping the cocking handle does look cool...I'll grant you that much.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I was always taught to clear a weapon before returning fire. It helps aid in function. Say a case doesn't eject or something.

I can see what you are saying about just inserting the magazine and just racking it. The H&K G series can be hard to pull back when a new magazine is inserted. More so that when it doesn't have a magazine in.

I guess it's just up to the shooter.

I still love the G3 design. It isn't without its flaws. But every system has flaws.

I do not like AR-10s. The AR design in general.

I've looked into Fals and M1's and neither feel good in my hands. Like I said I'm a big guy. And the ergonomics of the HK fit me well. More so than a Fal or M1 or even the oh so great AR10. I can reach all the controls with minor streatching.
 

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I have two PTRs, and WILL not ever sell or trade either...

I have the PTR MSG-91 and the PTR 32KFR. The first in 7.62X51 (.308 NATO) and the second, is 7.62X39, the same round used in the AK47. Both are sub-MOA, and never have had any failures to feed, fire, or eject...

The PTR MSG-91 is my MBR, though I have bolt action rifles that are more accurate, with greater reach. He's good out to 800yds, while the scaled down little brother is good out to 400yds. This is dependent upon the right ammo for either, and the shooter doing his/her part in putting metal on/through flesh...

Many of the internals are interchangeable, and I have enough parts to last for at least two or three barrels, to say nothing of enough magazines for both calibers to last the same...

I've had SA M1A Super Matches, sub-MOA, of course, as well as the same in AR15s made with uppers from LMT and lowers from Armalite- also sub-MOA, and they all were capable, with the right ammo, to take out the trash the full envelopes of their capabilities...

As to the non PTR weapons above, NONE were my choice for an MBR.

My PTR MSG-91 is "just right" for me. I carry it on a SAW sling, and it wears a Leupold 3.5-10X40 Mk 4 MFT, TMJ lighted reticle scope, is just plain perfect for my needs. Magazines can be had for a "song." PPU or Privi Partizan 175gr Match ammo...

My PTR 32KFR has an Army TA31RCO-M150CP ACOG, and uses Bulgarian AK47 polymer waffle magazines. Hornady 123gr SST ammo...

Know what works best for you, and take care of it like your life depends on it. It may well, especially with what's coming down the pike...

OldArcher, out...
 

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Firearm Enthusiast
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My advice: Go with the GI version. You'll lose some accuracy but its ability to eat crap ammo makes up for the lessened accuracy. Minute of dead is about as good as it gets with a reliable battle worthy MBR - and the GI is capable of accomplishing that kind of accuracy.

FWIW, consider getting a wide forearm and matching buttstock for the PTR. It gets HOT during rapid fire shooting. I almost have to wear gloves when I shoot my GI.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
My advice: Go with the GI version. You'll lose some accuracy but its ability to eat crap ammo makes up for the lessened accuracy. Minute of dead is about as good as it gets with a reliable battle worthy MBR - and the GI is capable of accomplishing that kind of accuracy.

FWIW, consider getting a wide forearm and matching buttstock for the PTR. It gets HOT during rapid fire shooting. I almost have to wear gloves when I shoot my GI.
I was thinking metal forend. With a grip of some sort. Because I'm sure it would get hot.

Btw for those of you who own a H&K or PTR. They have come out with 100 round beta magazines for them!
Saddly it's $500!

Also When I get my PTR I will be getting the .22lr conversion. I think it would close the gap for a 22 rifle. This is also the reason I have chosen the PTR/G3 rifle. It has a .22 conversion for it! Could you ask anything more of a shtf rifle?
 

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I have built a PTR 91 from scratch and they are fun guns. Ours is a tack driver but it is heavy and awkward to shoot. Given the need for a gun to survive with it would be the AK. If I went with a .308 rifle it would be the M1A/M14. The truth is guns are like car makers. Some people like to drive Chevrolet and some people like to drive Ford. If the gun feels right to you go for it. I have to assume you have shot the gun before you buy it. GB
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah. LOL. I own an AK. I love it for what it is. It shoots every time I load it and pull the trigger.

My reasons for a PTR is an MBR in .308. A lot of people don't like the ergo. I on the other hand like it. I have big hands and as stated above I am a big guy. It fits me well.

To me g3/hk91/ptr are not heavy at all. Nor are M1A's with the wood stocks.
PTR is great because magazines are cheap, will shoot just about anything, Stock sets are cheap, There is a .22lr conversion (which I dont think any other 308 rifle has) It's a great shooting rifle. Got to shoot one at the local range awhile back.

I like the action as well. It's pretty much a bolt action. But semi auto. Thats how I see it.

Also I've seen some videos of AK's fireing. And they flex all over the place. The gun jiggles and almost looks like its going to fall apart. Seriously look at any ak video and watch the gun. Now on the other hand watching a PTR or even an AR or M1A shoot there is no flexing. (Iknow, oranges to gernades here) I had considered aSaiga in .308 to save some cash. But after conversion and seeing the groups they get. I desided not to.

It would be nice to have a rifle that reaches out really far with minimal energy loss. Going hunting I've seen things reall far away but didn't have the means to hit it. I think a scoped PTR would probably hit things out to that distance without issue.
 

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The PTR is an excellent battle weapon. I don't understand the complaints about its ergonomics.

I own both a CETME and a PTR, along with a FAL. Although the FAL is my favorite, the PTR would be my first choice MBR in a SHTF scenario. I love the feel of the PTR and CETME. The FAL is a great weapon, but it doesn't feel as good to me as the PTR91. I guess eveyone is different.

Hope to add a M1A to my MBR collection soon. Hell, it might feel better than the FAL and the PTR91.
 

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I own a PTR91KF and love it. It is very well balanced and the recoil is typical HK where it just hops and comes back on target really quick. I have always liked the HK sites. I stay away from the tar sealed ammo, and have never had a jam or fail to feed. It's the nicest rifle I have ever fired. I couldn't be happier with it.

Paul B
 

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Paladin of the Midwest
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Personally I would get the one with the rail welded on if your plan is to use optics. I have a G3 and I haven't found a low profile claw rail yet that was worth anything.... But the gun is accurate and if you plan on reloading get something that will catch the brass or you'll never be able to find it.

I don't know you from adam so I'll give you some advice... when I bought mine I could easily afford the gun, but after a few years I couldn't afford to feed the damn thing anymore...... 308 gets expensive.....
 
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