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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had alluded to this in another recent post about blacksmithing furnaces, but thought I'd throw it up in it's own thread. There are a couple of reasons. I figured if anyone down the road does a site-search this might provide someone some helpful insight into building these, but I also happen to have one for sale on E-bay and if someone from here was to coincidently have an interest in buying it that wouldn't be bad either :eek::. I hope that does not get my in trouble with the mods here, I value my standing as an active member here, please let me know if this violates some rules and I'll fix this thread.

I wanted one of these and ultimately bought enough ceramic fiber insulation (rigid board and blanket) and refractory mortar to build MANY blacksmithing and metal casting furnaces over the coming years and decades, as I consider it a primary prep. I ended up building 5 of these little furnaces and am selling 4 of them to recoup some of my expenditures (only one left).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/263085632575?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

I'll just paste some of the description from my E-bay ad in here that provided some specific info on this.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The Lil’ Hothead mini metal-melting foundry furnace is a compact furnace designed for melting 1-3kg of metal using a readily available and inexpensive handheld propane torch (NOT INCLUDED!).

This furnace was inspired by canvasman34, a prominent E-bay seller who has a wealth of information about fine metal casting on his (canvasman34) Youtube channel. In building the Lil’ Hothead furnace, based on the canvasman34 general design, I incorporated several improved design features and used top-of-the-line materials to insure the Lil’ Hothead will be easy to use, with readily available fuel and tools, and remain so for a lifetime.

I built these furnaces because I wanted one for myself. It was cheaper for me to purchase the expensive materials to build this furnace in bulk, so I built 5 of them and I am selling 4 to recoup some of my expenditures. I will not be building more of these as it was a LOT more work to build these than I expected. You cannot build a furnace of this quality for less than my asking price. (this furnace is the last one I have- the others have been sold to happy customers! Don't miss out!)

Construction: The Furnace is constructed of 6” steel pipe (3/16” walls) and 1/8 and 3/16” steel plate. It’s painted with high heat paint. The lid is designed so that it can be gently and smoothly lifted and swung out of the way (requires two hands to open) for removable of the crucible and also be gently returned to an aligned closed position with a single hand.

Refractory: The Lil’ Hothead furnace is insulated with the best and most efficient refractory lining available. Primary lining is of 1” Insboard ceramic fiber insulation board (17.5#/ft3 density) and 1” Inswool ceramic fiber insulation blanket (8# density). Working temperature of this material is rated at 1800 Fahrenheit (1000C), and Maximum temperature is rated at 2300 Fahrenheit (1200C) if used without additional refractory coatings. The ceramic fiber insulation liner has been coated with a ¼” rigid layer of Satanite refractory mortar ( working temperature rating of 2800F), and then coated with ITC-100 Infra-red reflecting refractory coating which is rated to 3200F and increases forge efficiency 30% by reflecting 98% of the forge’s Infra-red radiation. This allows for maximum efficiency of your furnace (quick to target temperature) and a maximum longevity of your refractory lining.

Dual torch capability: Has two 1” torch ports, each with 4 threaded thumb-nuts that can be tightened to hold a torch in position. One of the torch ports has been sealed with an Insboard plug and sealed over with Satanite allowing single torch use without any loss of heat. For dual torch use, the second torch port plug can be removed without damaging the furnace walls. *A single torch is more than adequate to melt precious metals, especially if using a swirl-flame or jumbo tip high-heat torch.

Torches: (NO TORCH INCLUDED) recommended torches are the Bernzomatic swirl-flame torches model JT539, or the TS7000 (not to be confused with the TS4000 which does not put out as much heat). the TS4000 or the Jumbo Flame JT680, or even a standard pencil torch will likely also work to melt precious metals (especially if two torches are used).


Base Block (Plinth):Each Lil’ Hothead furnace comes with one Base Block (Plinth) made of 1” Insboard ceramic insulation board, coated with ¼” of Satanite, and ITC-100. Plinths are channel recessed top and bottom to allow metal to flow out the bottom of the furnace in the event of a crucible failure.

Crucibles: The Lil Hothead can accommodate any standard 1kg, 2kg, or 3kg graphite crucibles that are readily available and relatively inexpensive (1x 2kg graphite crucible included). The furnace can also be used with small graphite molds up to 3” in diameter. One 2kg crucible is included. If well taken care of the crucible will last a long time through several uses, however graphite does deteriorate at high heat, and crucibles are considered expendable items and cannot be expected to last indefinitely.

Crucible Tongs: Each Lil’ Hothead comes with a pair of custom built 14” crucible tongs. The extra-long (7”) tong handles allow the tongs to be manipulated with a single hand, and effectively create a one-handed crucible handle that can be used without fear of slipping or moving while in use.

Bucket/Packaging: The Lil’ Hothead is designed to fit inside a 5 gallon plastic bucket and come with a 5 gallon bucket with a screw-on “Omega lid”. Each Lil’ Hothead is packaged with custom cut heavy duty cardboard shims, and while properly packed inside the bucket can be stored protected from dust, rust, and refractory damage for decades.

In addition, each bucket is wrapped in shrink-wrap and then taped heavily with additional cardboard on the tops and bottom for additional protection during shipping.

IMPORTANT NOTICE!!! The refractory used in this furnace is soft, and the rigid Satanite coating is fairly delicate. If treated with care, it can and will last for burn after burn, but if you try to test how strong it is with your thumb, you WILL punch through it and have to repair it. You will very likely experience small cracks and flakes in the refractory during normal use and handling and cannot expect your refractory to be or stay flawless. I WILL NOT ISSUE REFUNDS OR TAKE RETURNS on this furnace due to damage or perceived flaws in the refractory. Each furnace comes with enough spare Satanite coating to keep the furnace in good repair for years of use.

Satanite: 70grams of extra Satanite mortar is included- an ample supply to patch damaged spots or (inevitable) cracks in the refractory and keep the furnace operating for years to come. Mixing and applying the Satanite mortar is simple and very forgiving. Start with a small amount of Satanite and simple add water and mix until it is the consistency of paste (think sour cream). If your Satanite is too thin, you can add more powder or simple wait for evaporation to thicken it. A small (artists) paint brush works best for applying the past to your furnace. It’s best to apply several thin coats until cracks and damage is filled, allowing each coat to completely dry between applications. Make sure your refractory is completely dried (low temperature bake out) before using the furnace or you’re likely to get further cracks. The Satanite mortar does not go bad, and any left-over mixed mortar can be allowed to dry out, stored, and then reused at a later date.















 

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Omnes homines resurgere
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Keyser, would you be willing to an overview of the construction process? What kinds of temperatures have you achieved? What kinds of projects have you done with this furnace?

Edit: Thanks for the detailed overview. Based on your first hand experience both building and using your design, what improvements would you make (if any) in an updated build? What is the rate of failure with crucibles, in your experience?

Awesome design. I especially appreciate the compact design.
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Keyser, would you be willing to an overview of the construction process? What kinds of temperatures have you achieved? What kinds of projects have you done with this furnace?
I have some pics of the building process. I'll post them when I get a chance.

I'd guess the furnace is capable of around 3000F, enough to melt iron. It's primarily designed for precious metals (1800-2000F) and I have been using mine for melting and casting fine and sterling silver, which it does very efficiently and very quickly.

In principal, a larger version would as easily melt enough aluminum for sand-casting larger parts, although I'd incorporate a different lid lifting mechanism.
Aluminum melts pretty cheap and easy (1200F) and if nothing else aluminum scraps can be melted into ingots.
 

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My old man and I were talking about getting into something like this, thanks for the post. Will be referencing this in the future, thanks for the post!
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My old man and I were talking about getting into something like this, thanks for the post. Will be referencing this in the future, thanks for the post!
these can be built super cheap and easy using #10 steel can or other simple casing if you have the Ceramic Fiber Insulation (either rigid board or blanket). It does not take long using these easy/cheap versions before you'll want to build one more "permanent" like I've built here.

Canvasman34 has an Ebay store and a Youtube channel where you can learn much more about this type of stuff, he's kind of the guru.

One of my favorite elements that is kind of under-rated is the ability to fit and seal the furnace inside the 5 gallon bucket. I can cache (store) this with my other preps and still expect it to be in good working order in (10-20-30) years. Remember that the graphite crucibles are expendable items (like a sanding disk or scrub-brush) so I have a dozen or more stored as well as about 30 lbs of graphite bricks for use in making molds and the like.

I consider ceramic fiber insulation a primary prep item, even for those who may not be interested (yet) in this type of capacity. This stuff can be used to make any kind of furnace (blacksmithing, metal casting) or to insulate an interior stove or oven.

remember to read the fine print, especially the fiber density, not all of this is created equally.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ceramic-Fib...149045?hash=item2a6bdb1fb5:g:NkEAAOSw3YJZPROs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ceramic-Fib...378783?hash=item4d5f99869f:g:kOcAAOSwBLlVEG7y


Satanite is the best surface mortar. Best to buy in bulk and store it well. I have also purchased and used some ITC100 which is expensive but understood to be worthwhile as a topcoat for your furnace refractory as it reflects IR which makes your furnace last longer and achieve higher temps. These can be purchased here...
http://www.hightemptools.com/refractorycoatings.html

As a general prep, I'd recommend at least buying some of this stuff to keep in your preps- and/or some fire bricks. This stuff will keep forever if kept dry and I'm confident an important use would reveal itself after SHTF.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=s...0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.16.1654.RU9o9NeoGWA

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=s...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.11.1364...0i10k1.ymMHLSCYf7E
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, I found the build pics....


I took the 6" pipe to a welding shop to be cut on a bandsaw- the only way really.



I had built one of these already, and after tweaking (simplifying) the design a bit, I knew that I could kind of mass produce the parts needed to build these. A much larger chore than it looks.



torch ports with the proper contour accomplished on a large belt grinder. notice the concrete backer board has a template drawn onto it- this turned out to be very helpful and critical to the building of these..



I drilled and tapped these in advance, So much easier than trying to do once welded....



some of the parts needed for the lid lifting and alignment mechanism. The key to the design is that the lid cannot lower unless aligned, so that once you have a container of molten metal within the foundry, you will not knock it over. I've used this many times and have never had any issue with raising and lowering the lid or knocking over the crucible. It does take two hands to lift the lid (have to lift it straight up), but once lifted it can swivel and be lowered with a single finger creating no disturbance to the furnace or crucible.....



these are internal brackets for the floor of the furnace. They are shown in the "lid" portion which is incorrect. refer to the diagram in the initial post to see that these are welded in place in the bottom of the furnace to create a floor about 4" or so off of the ground surface.



shows the lifting mechanism, as well as welded torch ports, and handles, and base ring that gives the torch stability. If you notice from my initial pictures, my original furnace has folding legs on stiff cabinet hinges. While not a bad design, these hinged feet do not actually help much with stability as these furnaces are pretty stable without them.



I welded some small wire retaining hooks inside the lids to help give the insulation blankets some stability. they must work, as I've never had any issue with movement or shifting of the insulation or refractory.




.
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ridged 1" ceramic insulation board, densest I could find. I have another dozen or so sheets of this I've sealed up for LTS.



might as well be asbestos, and not to be breathed into your lungs. I did this outside, with several box fans creating a positive air flow away from me, using a good respirator. I also collected the bulk of dust into this trash can. the trash can had about an inch of water in the bottom to collect the dust ,and I also wet down the ground around me. This stuff is dangerous to the surfaces of your lungs, but not otherwise toxic. Once the dust settles into water, and the fibers are not airborne, it's much less dangerous.



the soft blanket is less difficult to work with, but I still used a respirator while cutting it, and also mopped the floor afterwards to collect small fibers. In general, I did all of my cutting and shaping of the insulation at one time, as safely as possible, and then cleaned everything up thoroughly.



insulation installed ready for refractory coating. this insulation alone will create a furnace, many blacksmithing furnaces use this stuff as is. I've left the insulation about 1/4" shy of the flush surface, counting on a 1/4" layer of refractory mortar.




mixing the Satanite refractory (with the help of a little photoshop magic ) this could not be easier, and this stuff does not go bad. It can be dried and rehydrated. 1/4" thick is the target goal when applying this stuff.



I ended up applying several coats, allowing each to dry in between. have patience.



that is a large smooth metal block I use as an anvil in jewelry making. I worked it back and forth on the surface of the furnace to create a nice flat surface to create a good seal between the body and lid when the furnace is closed. seems to work well, I've not had any issues with heat escaping the seam.



refractory in progress...



so once the bulk of the refractory has hardened and is like I want it, I sealed one of the two torch ports with a ceramic plug and then covered the surface of it with refractory mortar. The point here is that one torch will do the job, especially if you have a good high temp torch. If you need more heat down the road, you can remove the plug without damaging the refractory and go dual torch.....



this is what the finished refractory looks like with the ITC100 applied (makes it look whiter and smoother). This is not 100% necessary, but does make the furnace more efficient by a good margin.




I also created an external plug that is held in place with the thumbnuts to seal off the unused torch port.




the torch ports are placed so that the heat enters directly to the base of your crucible and creates a vortex around your crucible as it rises up and out the top exhaust. The torch ports are big enough to allow air to be drawn in around the torchhead. there is also a hole in the middle bottom of the furnace chamber, and I'm sure some air does draw through it when it builds up to high heat, but this is primarily there in case their is a crucible failure- it allows molten metal to escape and flow out of the bottom of the furnace. keep that possibility in mind when you're using these furnaces (if melting precious metal, consider setting the furnace on a cookie sheet to recover metal in the case of a crucible failure).

in this case, there is 1-1/4" of insulation around the perimeter of the 6" pipe, there is 1-1/4" insulation on the bottom, and a a 1-1/4" plinth placed under the crucible; so place your ports according. Also note that a larger crucibles could be used by removing the plinth at the bottom. in this case the torch is centering the heat a bit higher in the crucible, but that's appropriate because you're crucible would have a large amount of metal filling it's entire column (or otherwise you'd prefer the smaller crucible)



.
 

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Good write up- 2 points- modern ceramic board is nothing like asbestos- .while you don't want to breath it, it's 100s of times safer. It's the infinitely splitting characteristic of asbestos that makes it so dangerous. I say modern because asbestos is the perfact material to reinforce refractory with.

As to the anti IR coating, it does nothing, and might even slightly reduce efficiency. Say you are melting a material at 1000 deg. The metal will stay 1000 deg, the outside of the crucible will be say 1025 degrees ( it's not an insulator, and the metal will keep it cool until all of the metal is melted). The propane flame will heat the annular space to some much hotter temperature. Assumeing you have good insulation, the inside of the furnace lining will actually be hotter than the crucible outside- Which is a good thing. Since the liner is hotter than the crucible, radient heat flow is actually into the crucible. The situation is slightly reversed when metal is held at a certain temperature but the effect is minor. If you want to apply the coating, it would do far more good on the outside.
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Good write up- 2 points- modern ceramic board is nothing like asbestos- .while you don't want to breath it, it's 100s of times safer. It's the infinitely splitting characteristic of asbestos that makes it so dangerous. I say modern because asbestos is the perfact material to reinforce refractory with.

As to the anti IR coating, it does nothing, and might even slightly reduce efficiency. Say you are melting a material at 1000 deg. The metal will stay 1000 deg, the outside of the crucible will be say 1025 degrees ( it's not an insulator, and the metal will keep it cool until all of the metal is melted). The propane flame will heat the annular space to some much hotter temperature. Assumeing you have good insulation, the inside of the furnace lining will actually be hotter than the crucible outside- Which is a good thing. Since the liner is hotter than the crucible, radient heat flow is actually into the crucible. The situation is slightly reversed when metal is held at a certain temperature but the effect is minor. If you want to apply the coating, it would do far more good on the outside.

No arguments about the differences between asbestos and ceramics, my point in invoking the term asbestos was to drive home the point that care should be taken to avoid inhaling the fibers. I work a lot with Rycholite stone in the jewelry I make, which contains a lot of asbestos. I just applied and shared some of the methods I use to help keep airborn particles to a minimum.

As far as the ITC100, it's pretty widely held as an effective refractory coating, and I've seen some compelling data supporting that. I don't intuitively follow your argument against it, but maybe you're right and it's all sales propaganda. I'm not prepared or invested enough to debate you on it, It'd be analogous to trying to argue one side or another of the climate change debate. Others here can make their own study and appraisals.

Had I known there was disagreement on it's effectiveness, I had the perfect chance to test it while building these furnaces. I could have ran them head to head with and without the ITC100, but I missed that chance.
 

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It's not my opinion- look up the formula for radient heat flow- it's area*emissivity*constant*(T1^4-T2^4). It only significant when the temperature difference is really large, especially some object vs the sun or clear night sky). When 2 objects are the same temperature, there is no heat flow- regardless of emissivity.

Not saying the product is a fraud, just that the low emissivity provides no value in this particular application- coating the crucible might make sense to help insulate it while pouring or transferring and in induction furnaces where heat is applied direct to the metal ( via induction) it could provide some benefit, particularly if there is no lid ( I've seen a number of small HF induction furnaces built this way so the crucible pops up on an air cylinder for fast cycle times)


ETA: you may also need the coating to protect the satanite- some refectories are very venerable to molten metals or flux. That may be reason you hear good things about it.
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It's not my opinion- look up the formula for radient heat flow- it's area*emissivity*constant*(T1^4-T2^4). It only significant when the temperature difference is really large, especially some object vs the sun or clear night sky). When 2 objects are the same temperature, there is no heat flow- regardless of emissivity.

Not saying the product is a fraud, just that the low emissivity provides no value in this particular application- coating the crucible might make sense to help insulate it while pouring or transferring and in induction furnaces where heat is applied direct to the metal ( via induction) it could provide some benefit, particularly if there is no lid ( I've seen a number of small HF induction furnaces built this way so the crucible pops up on an air cylinder for fast cycle times)
10-4, not looking to argue it or even pretend to be keen enough with my understanding of thermodynamics to shop-talk it with you. I'll voluntarily retract my contention that the IR reflection improves the efficiency of the furnace. I decided on the insulation and refractory I used for this furnace after following and participating in discussions on other blacksmithing forums, and never got a rumbling from anyone building and using these furnaces that wasn't consistently convinced that ITC100 did as it was advertised to do. I concede any statements I've made attesting to the effectiveness of ITC100 was just parroting data provided by the manufacturer which I thought was universally accepted as fact.

Again, I wish I'd have know there was a dissenting view, I had the perfect opportunity to test it in a controlled manner having identical furnaces and torches, but that ship has sailed.

Regardless, I've been extremely impressed with how quickly these little furnaces achieve melting temps compared to other quick-and-dirty furnaces I've built, and also with how little heat escapes into the steel casing. If the IR coating is not adding value, I'm confident it's not hurting anything either. If I've been fooled into springing for the undercoating on my new car, It doesn't negate the quality or value of the car.

For the sake of others contemplating building one of these, Please feel free to suggest specific alternative insulation and refractory one might use to create a more efficient or more durable furnace.
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I sold the last one of these I had on E-bay. The gal who bought it sent me this reply which is pertinent. FWIW, she is using a TS8000 torch which puts out more heat but has a bigger torch head which means less room for airflow in the torch ports of this foundry. She shifted her torch off-center to great effect.

I have just finished my first round of plain aluminium melts, to get a feel for it. I must say, I absolutely love it. I was a little worried because getting it open took some finesse and I am sure it's mainly user error but I've gotten the hang of it and got a good number of ingots to show for it. As for the torch head and air flow, it did seem a bit laggy at first so I shifted the nozzel a bit less centered and that seemed to solve that problem. I was curious how the refractory stays i the lid half, did you weld some supports like one would place rebar in concrete forms? Anyways, I can't wait to try and find the perfect aluminium copper alloy, brass and even bronze. The pour had hardly any dross and I even tested the last pour with a previously casting that was from a failed sand cast mold. I also couldn't keep up with the melt. I thought I would have time to round up my scrap casts and prototypes but they went super quick. A bar 12" x1" x.75" went fast, like less than a minute and it was just disappearing before I got comfortable on my stool lol. This is a great design, so much better than crucible dishes and holding torch!
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There is a guy on youtube, the king of random, that makes a neat little metal furnace. Check it out.

This is what you're talking about....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hHD10DjxM1g

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VSsPHwWB_pI

In my opinion, an excellent how-to tutorial for building a quick and dirty charcoal furnace after SHTF. In my early post I mentioned some similar refractory mortar to keep on hand in your preps for this. Fire bricks also worthwhile to have as well.

King of Random also does a bunch of fresnel lenses stuff too, which I've played with. I've got a 65" spot focus fresnel lens from a Mitsubishi projection TV. Lot of fun melting stuff with it. I ultimately plan to mount it to a sun tracker and stainless steel heat exchanger and play around with using it to heat circulated water for a greenhouse heater. Trick is to thermostatically control the lense focus depth or risk just melting everything down in a heartbeat.

For those interested in getting into metal foundry, Canvasman34 on YouTube also does a great job of sharing his vast knowledge.
 

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This is what you're talking about....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hHD10DjxM1g

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VSsPHwWB_pI

In my opinion, an excellent how-to tutorial for building a quick and dirty charcoal furnace after SHTF. In my early post I mentioned some similar refractory mortar to keep on hand in your preps for this. Fire bricks also worthwhile to have as well.

King of Random also does a bunch of fresnel lenses stuff too, which I've played with. I've got a 65" spot focus fresnel lens from a Mitsubishi projection TV. Lot of fun melting stuff with it. I ultimately plan to mount it to a sun tracker and stainless steel heat exchanger and play around with using it to heat circulated water for a greenhouse heater. Trick is to thermostatically control the lense focus depth or risk just melting everything down in a heartbeat.

For those interested in getting into metal foundry, Canvasman34 on YouTube also does a great job of sharing his vast knowledge.
Yeah thats what I was refering to. This whole post is quite good and informative thanks.
 

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I recently made a small under-blast charcoal forge from firebricks, powered by a hair dryer. It gets hot enough to melt everything up to copper (haven't tried iron or steel). My crucible is just a stainless steel cup with a bolt in the side for tongs to grasp onto. It's good enough for casting small stuff.
 

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[96] wks to off-grid esc
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I recently made a small under-blast charcoal forge from firebricks, powered by a hair dryer. It gets hot enough to melt everything up to copper (haven't tried iron or steel). My crucible is just a stainless steel cup with a bolt in the side for tongs to grasp onto. It's good enough for casting small stuff.
Yes, hair dryers work great and most often have variable speed. A 12v squirrel cage blower from a vehicle heater works well too (off grid). Many will use a cast iron brake drum instead of fire bricks for these under-blast charcoal furnaces (for blacksmithing, but best to insulate like with firebrick or mortar). Those small disposable steel propane or O2 bottles with the top chopped work well as a crucible (similar to what you describe) for melting aluminum or maybe even copper. Please feel free to post pics of your furnace here in this thread.
 

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look up/google/ gingery foundry,backyard foundry. you will find a plethora of furnaces most if not all are home built, providing enough to build a workshop, metal lathe, etc.
 
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