The military bag system is a good one.

So, usually I’d suggest going 10-15 degrees below the expected temps with the rating, ie: get a -15 rated bag for comfort at 0 degrees, get a -30 bag for -15, etc. Most of those low temp single bags are EXPENSIVE. You’re usually better off layering.

I’ve done comfy nights at -10 in an oversized 15 degree Marmot synthetic bag wrapped around a generic 20 degree down bag and a fleece liner. $190 all in.

 

I'll second this. Found out about the military modular sleep system when I was 20. Hell, the seed to prepping started when I was 19. The bag was my first ever major prepping purchase. No regrets, still have it to this day ready to go. Used it when I had to evacuate wildfires, used it when I was broke AF & slept in my SUV on dirt roads closer to the college I attended, used it in cold desert nights. Yeah, modular sleep system for the win 👌👌

 

There are a lot of bags out there with a myriad of options. If money is a concern the ECWS layering system GI bags might fit your bill. In my opinion they are good options for different weather ranging from temperate to very cold. With the bivy sack you can be fairly comfortable, warm and dry. Make sure you incorporate a good backpacking mattress to help keep that cold out. Without one and no insulation between you and the ground you will be frozen quick. They are pretty tough and not outrageously heavy and can still pack down relatively compact. In a pinch they can serve as sleeping bags for two different people although one might sleep pretty cold (Speaking from experience) Some of the downfall to some is they don't like to sleep in a mummy style bag so there is that.

 

What are you wearing to sleep? I size my sleep systems to do nothing more than make up the difference between clothes that keep me warm enough while moving, and a bag that has enough insulation to keep me warm enough when static combined with wearing those same clothes. This layered approach is the best way to keep weight down and give you a large range of temps you can handle with a single system.

I ask because for some reason alot of folks like to strip down to sleep, and often people are better served by adding a few more clothing layers to their kit rather than buying a heavier bag.

-30 is very cold, cold enough to merit its own system. If that kind of temp is an outlier then I would prepare for a bit higher temps and have a plan to deal with those crazy nights where more shelter is needed- that usually means building a fire/shelter to supplement your sleep system.

Something to consider at those kind of temps is a vapor barrier aswell. One of the best designs I've seen is the "hot sack" which adds a decent bit of heat to your kit given the dual purpose.

HotSac VBL - Western Mountaineering

Stay warm and dry with the HotSac™ vapor barrier liner for winter camping. Blocks heat loss, protects insulation, and weighs only 3.5 oz.

www.westernmountaineering.com

 

What are you wearing to sleep? I size my sleep systems to do nothing more than make up the difference between clothes that keep me warm enough while moving, and a bag that has enough insulation to keep me warm enough when static combined with wearing those same clothes. This layered approach is the best way to keep weight down and give you a large range of temps you can handle with a single system.

I ask because for some reason alot of folks like to strip down to sleep, and often people are better served by adding a few more clothing layers to their kit rather than buying a heavier bag.

-30 is very cold, cold enough to merit its own system. If that kind of temp is an outlier then I would prepare for a bit higher temps and have a plan to deal with those crazy nights where more shelter is needed- that usually means building a fire/shelter to supplement your sleep system.

Something to consider at those kind of temps is a vapor barrier aswell. One of the best designs I've seen is the "hot sack" which adds a decent bit of heat to your kit given the dual purpose.

HotSac VBL - Western Mountaineering

Stay warm and dry with the HotSac™ vapor barrier liner for winter camping. Blocks heat loss, protects insulation, and weighs only 3.5 oz.

www.westernmountaineering.com

I absolutely hate anything vapor barrier. I have tried them and always get up with everything soaking wet and having to deal with that. I tend to sleep warm even in pretty cold weather. I know that when you get into extreme temperatures your bodies natural vapor off gassing gets into the insulation and will begin to freeze. It can turn some sleeping bag insulation into heavy ice bricks.

If I can I will try and vent the lower portion of the bag and the top part just enough to help with this problem. Especially where my face is so that vapor is not collected inside the bag. Your vapor barrier internal bag works really well but at least for me I really need to consider it. I don't like to sleep with a lot of clothes on for a couple reasons but I know some prefer to. Now if it's a situation where you need to sleep with your boots on then that's entirely a different matter and thank God those days are long gone over for me.

 

In Alaska the most popular cold weather bag is Wiggy’s. All of their gear is top quality. Made in the USA.

Sleeping Bags - By Temperature Rating - Wiggy's

www.wiggys.com

There are some really nice sleeping bags on sale and some might fit your needs.

Specials - Sleeping Bag Specials - Wiggy's

www.wiggys.com

 

The diff is humidity…in the South, down or feather bags arent really a good choice…65-80% humidity changes things..It also just doesnt get all that cold…it hit 30 here a couple of mornings last week…thats as cold as its gotten this winter…a good pad,a decent bag(a 20 deg is great for here),a little overhead-[tarps are fine, I prefer free standing domes since I mostly sleep on sandbars while kayaking and anchoring in sand is a pain + the floor keeps the moccasins out]-This area doesnt need a lot of stuff to be comfortable, even in the 2 winter months…Here, dry is warm….jme

 

Solo Quilt

Conquer any landscape with courage knowing that you’ll be warm and comfy in our Solo Quilt when you get to camp. This minimalist quilt can be tucked under you, clipped at the center, or clipped to your sleeping pad with the included strap. Super soft, extra warm, and ultralight, this quilt is a...

zpacks.com

Warm clothing and a bottle of hot water inside the sleeping bag will get you through anything.

 

Solo Quilt

Conquer any landscape with courage knowing that you’ll be warm and comfy in our Solo Quilt when you get to camp. This minimalist quilt can be tucked under you, clipped at the center, or clipped to your sleeping pad with the included strap. Super soft, extra warm, and ultralight, this quilt is a...

zpacks.com

Warm clothing and a bottle of hot water inside the sleeping bag will get you through anything.

A 10° UL quilt? Anything is a tall order... How about a pad eh?

 

I do a good amount of cold-weather backpacking and camping, and I prefer to go with a layered system to give me more flexibility as the temperature changes. My base layer is typically my long merino underwear with a pair of down booties or wool socks to keep my feet warm. The next layer out is a BROWINT Thermolite Sleeping Bag Liner:

Amazon.com : BROWINT Thermolite Sleeping Bag Liner with Zippers for Cold Weather, Lightweight Mummy with Hood & Rectangular Sleep Sack for Adult, Adds Warmth, Thermal Travel Liner, All Season : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : BROWINT Thermolite Sleeping Bag Liner with Zippers for Cold Weather, Lightweight Mummy with Hood & Rectangular Sleep Sack for Adult, Adds Warmth, Thermal Travel Liner, All Season : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

Thermolite is great stuff and gives me an extra 10-20 degrees of warmth. Next is my sleeping bag, and I have several those, but for anything above freezing I use a Helikon Tex Swagman zipped up in the sleeping bag configuration - it also doubles as an insulated poncho.

SWAGMAN ROLL Poncho®

Once upon a time, the trappers, the trekkers and even the soldiers did not carry sleeping bags. They carried blanket rolls. Up until very recently, wool was the best blanket material. Then, still several decades ago, Nylon

www.helikon-tex.us

To keep me insulated from the ground or hammock bottom I use a Therm-a-Rest NeoAir insulated (R7) sleeping pad:

Amazon.com : Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm Camping and Backpacking Sleeping Pad, Vapor, Regular Wide - 25 x 72 Inches, WingLock Valve : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm Camping and Backpacking Sleeping Pad, Vapor, Regular Wide - 25 x 72 Inches, WingLock Valve : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

On the outside of everything I prefer the 2Go Systems Sing heat-reflective bivy, which is pretty breathable:

SING UL BIVVY - 2GoSystems

The SING UL , this is strictly a bivvy with the same dimensions of the Trifecta except the zipper is only...

www.2gosystems.com

For me it adds another 10-20 degrees of extra warmth.

The final layer is the 'microclimate' around me, whether inside a small tent/bivy or a windsock on my hammock. Note that everything (except the sleeping pad) has zippers or vents so I can adjust things to keep me comfortable.

FYI, I tend to sleep hot, so I've been comfortable in temps down in the teens with the above setup.

 

I ran a test on my gear in fair weather and everything worked well. The outside temp was near 45° and I was pleased.

Then I made an emergency trip to Minnesota in late November for a funeral and I packed my gear just in case. I used my Army issue sleeping bag/bivy system including the silk bag liner the motel room and just about froze my butt off. The outside temp was about 20° and I didn't turn the heat on in the room until about 3:00 am when I just couldn't sleep because of the cold. That was an eye opening experience.

Since that trip I have added a few budget bags which could be layered but I'd buy a Wiggy's if I had the money. We also are in the south but being warm/dry/rested is invaluable in a survival scenario. Good stuff on here. Thanx y'all.

 

For those suggesting the military sleeping system bags. Remember, unless it is the artic bag, those bags are rated to keep you alive at those temperatures, not necessarily get a good night's sleep.

 

Yep, the"green monster".

I've spent a few nights in one of those near a link-up fire. Good news is they won't catch on fire easily. Bad news is they are NOT waterproof at all.

We switched from the GM to the MSS while I was at 6TH RTB in Florida. Those Lower Alabama swamps can get COLD in the winter. Wasn't unusual to see °20-°30 F in the winter.

The MSS was comfortable to me, and I'm cold natured.

Before that, I would pile up dry leaves for insulation (I use a Klymit air mattress now), wrap up in the issue wool blanket, inside the attic bag, and snap the issue poncho around for a bivi. Roll up the field jacket for a pillow and you were toasty warm.

 

What are the conditions you plan to use this system in? Bivouac? Cabin? Tent? Car camping? etc. Do you expect to carry it, or transport it in some kind of conveyance, Car, sled, snowmobile, stay stationary?

I have a multi bag system that I spent one night in as an experiment at 55*F below zero F (in a mountain tent). It kept me toasty but I sure wouldn't want to pack it anywhere. Also, getting up and maneuvering in those temps in an unheated shelter is problematic. Need more details and plans for a good answer/discussion.

 

Usually, I set up in the bed of my pickup truck. It has a camper shell but only a 6 ft bed and a truck tool box, so the tailgate is down so that I can extend out.
Alternatively, I pack in on a 4 Wheeler and sleep on a dual sided ground tarp, canvas side on ground and felted side up with sleeping pad on that side. I use a ground pad and tie off a large oilskin tarp for overhead cover.
My bag is a Wenzel, rectangular with flannel liner, rated 0 degrees. Inside of the Wenzel I use a mummy bag liner from a European military bag, made of "woobie" material.
Over the bag I may put a good, thick wool blanket.
I wear wool socks, a 20 percent merino wool base layer and a wool beanie that covers my face also.
I've used this setup in 15 degrees and did fine but I don't think it would get me thru sub zeros down to -30. Those are outlier temps, but they do happen.

 

Watch a few of this guy's videos. Maybe you will get some ideas.

 

@Justme11 I do like his system. Fire is low, would tend to heat the bed. A root ball reflector. Lots of firewood. Like he said, you wouldn't get a lot of sleep but you likely wouldn't die of exposure (for a while ).

You would need more clothing than he had to stay comfortable.

 

Marmot makes a -40 bag that I've used to good effect. I've also used a Feathered Friends bag for similar temps (polar and high altitude expeditions).

Marmot

Buy undefined at undefined.

www.marmot.com

Feathered Friends Winter & Expedition Sleeping Bags (0ºF to -60ºF)

Feathered Friends Winter and Expedition down sleeping bags are for some of the coldest conditions on Earth. All of our winter down sleeping bags are handcrafted in Seattle with ethically-sourced 900+ fill power goose down and the best fabrics from Pertex®, including the exceptionally breathable...

featheredfriends.com

 

I didn't see anyone ask how you're getting it to the campsite. If it's by car, I love my ECWCS system. Cheap, durable, weather-resistant, effective. But if you're going in by backpack it is HEAVY. I don't backpack, so I don't have a recommendation for that.

 

Read post #22

 

Hey in about 45 degrees I slept in a cheap pocket-sized bivvy bag. Those are a small, cheap edition that, in my personal opinion, can help a lot. Also, you can heat larger rocks by a fire and alternate them in the night to help keep you warm (though I have been warned they can explode evidently). Wind block and staying dry is very important too. Setting up a basic a-frame helps a lot IMO. But, once we are talking negative temps, I feel like you’re going to basically be cold regardless. Staying dry is crucial. I’m not too experienced with such extreme temps so that’s about all I have to offer here… I agree with all of the layering tips too.

 

I don't like to sleep with bulky outer garments. In milder weather I tend to sleep with no clothes, (maybe socks).

Sleeping with clothing on, I tend to cut off circulation and my arms might go to 'sleep', (happens). Most of the time I don't tend to camp in extreme conditions. Most common cold weather camping is during hunting season and temperatures usually stay well above zero (not always ).

 

Keep in mind a 0° bag is not rated to keep you comfy at 0°, but to keep you alive at 0°.

 

It actually depends on the rating

there is a comfort , transition and survival rating. Comfort is the level the average woman will be comfortable. The transition is the level the average man will be. And then survival is to keep you alive.
Also many bags don’t have actual ratings. Just from the company.

 

Back in the 80’s a buddy saw a German Army ‘snipers sleeping bag and parka’in a surplus catalog, Sportsmans Guide maybe🙈..durn thing had arms and hood like a jacket and a rectangular foot section that could be unzipped and walked in…
When he had it out on the living room floor fondling it I thought. “Its really cold in Germany-The thing Has to be warm”🤔
Week or so later he decides to spend the night in his tree stand before deer season opened…25 or so that night..frigid for here….he froze his keester off, wound up building a fire to survive til dawn..scared off the deer w the fire😂
We cut that thing open..stuffed w basically cotton or some other base textile…if he had gotten wet he would have been in trouble....stuff you use outdoors needs quality, design and trying out before going bush with it…jme

 

North 49 Frontier 11 Winter Sleeping Bag - rated to -35C but I use it for truck trailer camping.

 

If you are getting in by ATV, you can probably get by with a bulkier bag. For the really cold temps, I use a -40 down bag/pad. Hunting season, I use a 0F down bag and a sm tent/pad. The best(warmest) bag I’ve owned was a western mountaineering -30F down bag. I sold that bag to a friend, who was going on a winter trip and couldn’t get a decent bag before he left. My -40 bag is a marmot from the 80s, with a gore tex outer shell…not made anymore.

 

I wanted to add to my last answer to you. For what you mentioned for your normal needs while truck camping, you do not need fancy/expensive expedition sleeping gear. What you are using now is just fine with a few additions.

You don't need a Wiggy's pad, a couple of $5 Harbor Freight furniture pads work equally well (those steel truck beds are cold). That is actually what I use traveling across country in my pickup. Traveling like that, my gear takes a beating, stuff gets spilled on it, when my dog traveled with me, he made a mess in wet weather, etc. I have a closed cell foam pad and a good mummy bag with me, in protective covers that would be suited for travel overland stashed and not used in case I have to abandon the truck and bivouac.

Same story with your rectangular Wenzel, a $25 Walmart (or 2) and your wooby, tucked inside will give you protection easily down into the temperature ranges you are expecting. You don't need an ultra light $400 down or a fancy name insulation bag.

What I've found is that traveling by truck and sleeping in the shell is more confining than a canoe trip for instance. You get to a roadside rest stop for instance, you can't just spread your gear out all over the lawn. On a canoe trip, you stop along the bank and unload your gear, you can spread it out over a large radius, keep it clean and protected more easily, have a different pad for the wet muddy dog etc.

You have a good start and are on the right track, a few added and inexpensive items can meet your present (stated) requirements.

 

I wanted to add to my last answer to you. For what you mentioned for your normal needs while truck camping, you do not need fancy/expensive expedition sleeping gear. What you are using now is just fine with a few additions.

You don't need a Wiggy's pad, a couple of $5 Harbor Freight furniture pads work equally well (those steel truck beds are cold). That is actually what I use traveling across country in my pickup. Traveling like that, my gear takes a beating, stuff gets spilled on it, when my dog traveled with me, he made a mess in wet weather, etc. I have a closed cell foam pad and a good mummy bag with me, in protective covers that would be suited for travel overland stashed and not used in case I have to abandon the truck and bivouac.

Same story with your rectangular Wenzel, a $25 Walmart (or 2) and your wooby, tucked inside will give you protection easily down into the temperature ranges you are expecting. You don't need an ultra light $400 down or a fancy name insulation bag.

What I've found is that traveling by truck and sleeping in the shell is more confining than a canoe trip for instance. You get to a roadside rest stop for instance, you can't just spread your gear out all over the lawn. On a canoe trip, you stop along the bank and unload your gear, you can spread it out over a large radius, keep it clean and protected more easily, have a different pad for the wet muddy dog etc.

You have a good start and are on the right track, a few added and inexpensive items can meet your present (stated) requirements.

Thanks for the info! I may add some sort of bivy sack or something for dampness since my tailgate is open and the foot of my bag is exposed to the elements. I also may figure out better insulation to wear inside the bag.
Great responses from everyone, that's why I come here for the real answers..

 

Warm, light/small, cheap. Pick 2.

Start with - do you have to carry it around or not? The military sleep system is fine down to 0 or even a little lower with proper accessories (tent, pad, base layer, hat), but its massive and heavy. If you have to carry it, then space and weight matter. Look into what the mountain climbers use, there's no alternative to down. Sleeping pad and tent matter as much as the bag.

Test your stuff. 0 degrees doesn't mean comfortable at 0, from some brands its just an marketing number. I have used zero degree rated bags that left me uncomfortably cold in the 30s. On other side of that there are brands like western mountaineering, enlightened equipment, feathered friends where -40 means -40. While you can theoretically stack 3 cheap pads and 3 cheap sleeping bags on top of each other that comes with other problems that are mitigated by systems designed for those temps.

 

Test your stuff. 0 degrees doesn't mean comfortable at 0, from some brands its just an marketing number. I have used zero degree rated bags that left me uncomfortably cold in the 30s.

Definitely- I have a Kelty that is rated to 20 degrees, and I used it for a long weekend where is was 21 or 22 degrees at night. Even with it inside of a USGI bivy bag, and a ground pad under it, I was absolutely miserable. No danger of freezing to death, but miserable.
I bought the rest of the components of the USGI MSS and sleep very comfortably down to 10 degrees or so, which is the coldest I have tried. I usually have to open a zipper a little to keep comfortable. The MSS is heavy and bulky though, I wouldn't want to carry it on my back very far if I could help it.

 

Still $55...

Midway USA has the Browning brand endeavor -20 sleeping bag again. $55.

Browning Endeavor -20 Degree Sleeping Bag

The Browning Endeavor is a great mummy-shaped sleeping bag for your next camping trip. The Endeavor uses a 2-layer offset construction, sometimes...

www.midwayusa.com

These are pretty decent bags, with caveats. They are NOT for backpacking/hiking/bike camping etc.

They are for car*/truck camping, keeping at a cabin/lodge/BOL, &/or for sheltering in place.

Car* - only if enough room for them & the rest of your gear. They pack that large!

They pack very big, and are heavy. Nice bags tho, if someone has wants that meet the caveats above. Better when there is a free shipping deal (Midway has them frequently enough).

We have a few (& a few of the +20 degree bags as well, currently $40), tried them out & now simply toted for LTS.

Pretty decent preparedness items, being more efficient warmth wise (if needs be) than just "normal" bedding, or use in conjunction with normal bedding.

Please note the caveates!

Recommend, if suitable otherwise.

-Sorry OP, didn't read the thread, in the event you need it to hike or have a small vehicle...

 

One of the many things I like about my multi bag system (any multi bag actually) is that if you don't need a 50* below zero bag, you can leave one or 2 bags open and just enjoy the comfort of one bag.

 

Well...This is SURVIVALIST BOARDS not...stand out like a sore thumb boards with a giant sleeping pad strapped to your pack in shtf. The German pad can fold down and fit in a pack=stealth/gray man. R Value?? Build up a base of leaves on top of sticks or cedar branches then build a fire...

Im looking at the system as a whole and comparing it to your post.

Solo Quilt

Conquer any landscape with courage knowing that you’ll be warm and comfy in our Solo Quilt when you get to camp. This minimalist quilt can be tucked under you, clipped at the center, or clipped to your sleeping pad with the included strap. Super soft, extra warm, and ultralight, this quilt is a...

zpacks.com

Warm clothing and a bottle of hot water inside the sleeping bag will get you through anything.

You said "anything" then you've realized that the system you advocate certainly DOESNT do anything so you are now adding fires to the equation- in which case the selection of equipment you've selected still sucks, and I'll tell ya why.

I'll break down why paying $60 for a $20 piece of foam to work in conjuction with this quilt is a bad idea.

You're advocating a tissue thin 7 denier ultralight quilt. This is not equipment you use near a fire- it's not equipment you use without serious protection from the abrasive puncture prone and potentially wet, bug filled environment you talk about having to now build a bed out of... Youre gonna tear that thing to shreds.

Youre advocating $460 dollars for an UL quilt and a thin piece of foam and saying it can do "anything" with a warm water bottle and warm clothes. These are not the words of an experience person who owns and utilizes ultralight gear.

you haven't mention a ground cloth or bivvy (most who use this kinda kit prefer a sterile tent floor) which you'll want to protect your $400 quilt investment.

For the price you're spending on this equipment I can think of many better setups which are warmer at higher and lower temp ranges, more durable, faster to setup/deploy, pack smaller and don't require active heat sources or the need to gather dirty and abrasive brush to keep you warm. There are stealtheir, heartier systems to be had for that cost.

To add to all of this, foe the sake of this quilts performance you also need to deal with the proper storage protocol to maintain its loft to get your 10°... this system hardly is proper in context to what this thread is discussing.

You shouldnt advocate the ability of a system based on its potential to function when things go right... you should quantify its viability based on when things go wrong. I'm not into fair weather thinking...

"Anything" ?? Just no...

 

Ditto on layering and pads. Also consider something like this: https://www.amazon.com/RUNNZER-Ultr...vqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=m&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584070166331241&psc=1 I don't think tents are rated by temperature, but by having a small buffer around you, your body will warm that up and make your sleep feel warmer. A larger tent will not produce the same results. Maybe use the small one in a larger one?? I also change my underwear before bed. Clean clothing has air space between the fibers - sweat and dirt fill those spaces and reduce the R value of your clothes.