A couple of guys suggested that I open a thread about Oom Nicolaas "Siener" (seer) van Rensburg, the Afrikaner Christian prophet.
There is a lot to tell, much more than for which I have the energy, or you the patience probably. So, this is a précis. What's more, I'll address the salient background details of the chap, but I won't go into too much basic detail that you could just as well find on Wikipedia.
It bears mentioning right away that much of Siener van Rensburg's present fame is thanks to a book written (in 1994?) by Adriaan Snyman, called Voice of a Prophet in the English translation. That leads to difficulties, though, because skeptics quite rightly point to the poor writing, tremendous leaps in logic, and claims made with the benefit of hindsight in that book. However, whatever else I write here must be seen through the prism of credibility which SvR gained long prior to Adriaan Snyman's birth, and under circumstances which those present at the time - however much they might have doubted the rumours of SvR's gift previously - found difficult to dispute.
This is not about whether you or I believe in God, Nostradamus, or anything else. This is about a man who, beyond dispute, and verified hundreds of times over, and often within large groups of people, clearly had some sort of a gift of "prophecy".
Therefore, if you have a problem with Adriaan Snyman's book, try A Prophet with Honour by Julian Oxford, Profeet en Krygsman by Sybrand Botha, or Die Vierkleur Wapper Weer by A.W.G. Raath & N. van Zyl, or F.H. Pretorius's two efforts which are very easy to Google and which must be ordered directly from the author.
Siener van Rensburg was a deeply-pious Boer farmer from the Wolmarranstad region of the Transvaal Boer Republic, born 1864 and died in 1926. His claim to fame originated during the Anglo-Boer War when he made numerous astonishing prophecies pertaining to, mostly, matters on the battlefield. He was met with doubt, scepticism, mockery, and even ostracism by his comrades and commanders alike. That was gradually turned to faith, awe, and reverence by the prophecies being realised. There is nothing quite so likely to make you believe in anything as having your bacon saved for you.
His prophecies were astounding, ranging from the existence of English forces which "could not possibly have been there" (read the story and you'll appreciate that this is not as prosaic as it sounds), to secret weirs in flooded rivers, and springs of water which did not exist previously. The list goes on and on and on. Let it suffice to say that SvR's commanders became so convinced of his "powers" that some disowned him when he predicted that the Boers would lose the war, on the basis that it was his fault inasmuch as if he kept his mouth shut it would not happen. Similarly, a few Boer generals who had experienced his gift on the battlefield became life-long acolytes, for want of a better word, and sought advice from him up until his death a quarter of a century after the war ended.
In 2008 I bought a second-hand copy of Stem van 'n Profeet for R35 at Rick's Bookshop, although it had another name then, on 4th Ave in Parkhurst, Johannesburg; then in July last year I saw a copy displayed on a special rack behind the counter in the second hand bookshop in Blairgowrie Centre, Jhb, priced at R2000. The old blonde British woman who runs the shop told me, when I asked whether they deemed it something special, "Ooooh, yes, I don't know anything about that book, but they are in great demand. And it seems to be all of a sudden". Clearly, people are taking it seriously after laughing it off for many years.
Now, I must point out one thing which is particularly relevant. Siener van Rensburg lost popularity, even credibility, for many years, for two reasons, one of which I'll describe. To wit, he predicted democracy in South Africa at a time in history when such an assertion was enough to have you labelled insane. I cannot exaggerate this point. If you are in any doubt about it yourself, read Thomas Pakenham's Scramble for Africa.
But he was correct.
I recommend that you read one of the books about Siener van Rensburg; it'll change your life. As someone once said to me in reference to a completely different book "Even if you don't end up believing in it, it will change your life because you'll never stop thinking about how uncanny it is". I could say the same to you about this book(s).
Nonetheless, the Snyman book is the most widely-available, so I'll speak about that one.
Sieve out whatever Adriaan Snyman could have interpreted with the benefit of hindsight; sieve out whatever seems like leaps in logic (and there are hundreds); sieve out whatever seems vague and chancey (and there is a lot).
But consider very seriously the interpretations given by Siener van Rensburg, Siener van Rensburg's daughter, Boy Mussman, and - in some cases - Adriaan Snyman, which were made prior to the realisation or manifestation of the interpretations. Let's face it, even though he would have known about Nelson Mandela's existence in the mid-nineties, even Adriaan Snyman couldn't have known when he wrote his book twenty years ago that there would be a massive miners' strike in the west Transvaal immediately after the first black president's death. 20 years beforehand is not hindsight. And "a strike in the west Transvaal which makes the famous South African 1923 miners' strike pale by comparison" is not something you get right while dreaming idly on the toilet.
Similarly, how on earth could Boy Mussman have known, or guessed, ~70 years ago (even if Siener van Rensburg was a liar and a chancer) something as specific as Europe becoming inundated by African refugees to the extent that they become like a plague? This is not vague stuff which takes a genius to understand, or requires 20 years of hindsight to understand. I am talking about the explicit and simple predictions which you will find in the book, like "The river around the next bend will flood (even though it hasn't been raining for months)", or "My child has died, I must return home" and so on. I am paraphrasing my examples, but if you read the book I think that you will admit that I have not paraphrased the incidents dishonestly or exaggerated them. In fact, I have grossly understated both of the examples I have used, firstly in the spirit of laziness and secondly because you'll appreciate them better if you read the full tale of each for yourself.
The book is long and tedious to read. Some of it comes across as absolute rubbish, and some of it is impossible to understand. Just be patient and focus your attention on the easy-to-understand, simply written, independently-verified, portions.
Here's an example: there were eye-witnesses to Siener van Rensburg visiting Generaal Koos De La Rey's home to warn him not to go to Johannesburg because Siener had seen in a vision from God that de la Rey would be killed. Genl. de la Rey went to Jhb a few days later anyway. He was shot dead in Fordsburg. Klaar. It doesn't get more credible than that. And that is merely one of many, many, examples.
One user here, Xizero, asked me to describe the prophecy in question, as it were, the contentious prophecy, the one pertaining to civil war in South Africa, the one which has been half fulfilled. Here is how the general understanding of his final prophecy works:
BUT FIRST, ONE NOTE: I AM NOT AN EXPERT AND I DO NOT PRETEND TO BE AN EXPERT. I MERELY BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT OF SIENER VAN RENSBURG IN ANSWER TO THE TREAD QUESTION WHAT WAS THE CATALYST WHICH TURNED YOU INTO A PREPPER?, AND PEOPLE SUBSEQUENTLY ASKED ME TO ELABORATE THE TOPIC IN A NEW THREAD. Please do your own reading, and do not depend upon me as an expert to inform you accurately. I should mention that everything I am writing is from memory; the four copies of the story of SvR which I have read were lent to friends and not returned, so I don't even have a copy with me to use as a reference. I tried to buy one this morning and couldn't find one.
1) democracy!
2) world adores the first black president
3) the first black president dies contemporary to a real nasty bastard being the then-incumbent president
4) whole world mourns for first black president, people come from all over to pay homage
5) first black president lies in state for 10 days prior to burial
6) after the burial, a massive strike
7) thereafter civil insurrection "at the time of the melting of the snows", which could either mean that we haven't noticed but we actually live in Norway and it'll happen in springtime in Scandinavia, or that it is going to happen during a period when people see/believe/understand that the snows are melting (global warming in Antarctica maybe; or maybe we don't fully understand it yet; who knows? Not me. I have suspicions... but I don't really and truly know).
8) after a period the blacks vent their frustrations, whatever those frustrations may be, upon the whites
9) those attacks are put down by the government
10) some time later the attacks are resumed, and this time there is no stopping the carnage, and it becomes an all-out civil war in which the whites are slaughtered almost to a man
11) it will be so severe that Siener told his mate "I see no houses because there will be no houses left. The few of us who survive will live in tents".
12) only one region of SA will be safe, and it will become a redoubt for the whites. No-one is sure where that region is, but there is a school of thought which suggests that it lies approximately between Mossel Bay/George and Jeffrey's Bay (ish). You could loosely call it "the Tsitsikamma/Garden Route/Wilderness regions and surrounds", if you like
13) the whole drama will play out over a period coinciding with big trouble in Europe. Siener said explicitly that we'll be lucky to get away with what happens to us in South Africa
14) Indians (South African Indians) will be the instigators of the blacks' nonsense against the whites. This was predicted at a time when the Indian population in SA was very, very, small indeed, and of no influence whatsoever.
15) many whites will flee SA just as the trouble starts, especially English speakers and (he expressed this repeatedly and explicitly) Afrikaners who have been assimilated into western/non-Boer/non-Afrikaans/English culture and who have forgotten the struggles and the God-fearing faith of their fore-fathers. He described how the ships leaving Durban harbour would be full to overflowing. Bear in mind that aeroplanes were almost unknown then, and that the reference to ships might be allegorical. This is prophecy, not mathematics.
16) Germany would eventually aid the Boers after the whole world had turned their backs on the Boers
Now, I must confess to one thing, in fairness to one member of this forum who pointed out that Siener van Rensburg was discredited when only, say, half of the above prophecy came true (at the time that is was expected to do so!!!!). It was believed by many people, many interpreters of Siener van Rensburg's prophecies - some of which are told in allegorical terms such as Old Testament prophets used (by the same token, some were absolutely explicit and in simple language) - that die nag van die lang messe (the night of the long knives when the attacks upon whites would commence) would occur while Nelson Mandela lay in state. Clearly, either Siener van Rensburg, or his many interpreters, was wrong. And that is not the only example. The member has a fair point, there is no denying it.
My point, however, is "And what about the rest that he got right? How do you explain the uncanny nature of so many of his predictions? Why overlook it?" The choice is entirely yours.
Interestingly, the diaries kept by Siener van Rensburg's friend Boy Mussman which recorded SvR's own interpretations of his prophecies - which were actually written down by his daughter, were confiscated by the Special Branch of the police upon direct order of Prime Minister Genl. Jan Smuts in the fifties (some of the prophecies appeared to be very anti-Smuts), but enough material remained in other hands for research to be done for the various books.
As they say, internet medical sites are no substitute for going to see your doctor. I cannot begin to do justice to the whole tale. Buy the book(s) if you can find a copy.
There is a lot to tell, much more than for which I have the energy, or you the patience probably. So, this is a précis. What's more, I'll address the salient background details of the chap, but I won't go into too much basic detail that you could just as well find on Wikipedia.
It bears mentioning right away that much of Siener van Rensburg's present fame is thanks to a book written (in 1994?) by Adriaan Snyman, called Voice of a Prophet in the English translation. That leads to difficulties, though, because skeptics quite rightly point to the poor writing, tremendous leaps in logic, and claims made with the benefit of hindsight in that book. However, whatever else I write here must be seen through the prism of credibility which SvR gained long prior to Adriaan Snyman's birth, and under circumstances which those present at the time - however much they might have doubted the rumours of SvR's gift previously - found difficult to dispute.
This is not about whether you or I believe in God, Nostradamus, or anything else. This is about a man who, beyond dispute, and verified hundreds of times over, and often within large groups of people, clearly had some sort of a gift of "prophecy".
Therefore, if you have a problem with Adriaan Snyman's book, try A Prophet with Honour by Julian Oxford, Profeet en Krygsman by Sybrand Botha, or Die Vierkleur Wapper Weer by A.W.G. Raath & N. van Zyl, or F.H. Pretorius's two efforts which are very easy to Google and which must be ordered directly from the author.
Siener van Rensburg was a deeply-pious Boer farmer from the Wolmarranstad region of the Transvaal Boer Republic, born 1864 and died in 1926. His claim to fame originated during the Anglo-Boer War when he made numerous astonishing prophecies pertaining to, mostly, matters on the battlefield. He was met with doubt, scepticism, mockery, and even ostracism by his comrades and commanders alike. That was gradually turned to faith, awe, and reverence by the prophecies being realised. There is nothing quite so likely to make you believe in anything as having your bacon saved for you.
His prophecies were astounding, ranging from the existence of English forces which "could not possibly have been there" (read the story and you'll appreciate that this is not as prosaic as it sounds), to secret weirs in flooded rivers, and springs of water which did not exist previously. The list goes on and on and on. Let it suffice to say that SvR's commanders became so convinced of his "powers" that some disowned him when he predicted that the Boers would lose the war, on the basis that it was his fault inasmuch as if he kept his mouth shut it would not happen. Similarly, a few Boer generals who had experienced his gift on the battlefield became life-long acolytes, for want of a better word, and sought advice from him up until his death a quarter of a century after the war ended.
In 2008 I bought a second-hand copy of Stem van 'n Profeet for R35 at Rick's Bookshop, although it had another name then, on 4th Ave in Parkhurst, Johannesburg; then in July last year I saw a copy displayed on a special rack behind the counter in the second hand bookshop in Blairgowrie Centre, Jhb, priced at R2000. The old blonde British woman who runs the shop told me, when I asked whether they deemed it something special, "Ooooh, yes, I don't know anything about that book, but they are in great demand. And it seems to be all of a sudden". Clearly, people are taking it seriously after laughing it off for many years.
Now, I must point out one thing which is particularly relevant. Siener van Rensburg lost popularity, even credibility, for many years, for two reasons, one of which I'll describe. To wit, he predicted democracy in South Africa at a time in history when such an assertion was enough to have you labelled insane. I cannot exaggerate this point. If you are in any doubt about it yourself, read Thomas Pakenham's Scramble for Africa.
But he was correct.
I recommend that you read one of the books about Siener van Rensburg; it'll change your life. As someone once said to me in reference to a completely different book "Even if you don't end up believing in it, it will change your life because you'll never stop thinking about how uncanny it is". I could say the same to you about this book(s).
Nonetheless, the Snyman book is the most widely-available, so I'll speak about that one.
Sieve out whatever Adriaan Snyman could have interpreted with the benefit of hindsight; sieve out whatever seems like leaps in logic (and there are hundreds); sieve out whatever seems vague and chancey (and there is a lot).
But consider very seriously the interpretations given by Siener van Rensburg, Siener van Rensburg's daughter, Boy Mussman, and - in some cases - Adriaan Snyman, which were made prior to the realisation or manifestation of the interpretations. Let's face it, even though he would have known about Nelson Mandela's existence in the mid-nineties, even Adriaan Snyman couldn't have known when he wrote his book twenty years ago that there would be a massive miners' strike in the west Transvaal immediately after the first black president's death. 20 years beforehand is not hindsight. And "a strike in the west Transvaal which makes the famous South African 1923 miners' strike pale by comparison" is not something you get right while dreaming idly on the toilet.
Similarly, how on earth could Boy Mussman have known, or guessed, ~70 years ago (even if Siener van Rensburg was a liar and a chancer) something as specific as Europe becoming inundated by African refugees to the extent that they become like a plague? This is not vague stuff which takes a genius to understand, or requires 20 years of hindsight to understand. I am talking about the explicit and simple predictions which you will find in the book, like "The river around the next bend will flood (even though it hasn't been raining for months)", or "My child has died, I must return home" and so on. I am paraphrasing my examples, but if you read the book I think that you will admit that I have not paraphrased the incidents dishonestly or exaggerated them. In fact, I have grossly understated both of the examples I have used, firstly in the spirit of laziness and secondly because you'll appreciate them better if you read the full tale of each for yourself.
The book is long and tedious to read. Some of it comes across as absolute rubbish, and some of it is impossible to understand. Just be patient and focus your attention on the easy-to-understand, simply written, independently-verified, portions.
Here's an example: there were eye-witnesses to Siener van Rensburg visiting Generaal Koos De La Rey's home to warn him not to go to Johannesburg because Siener had seen in a vision from God that de la Rey would be killed. Genl. de la Rey went to Jhb a few days later anyway. He was shot dead in Fordsburg. Klaar. It doesn't get more credible than that. And that is merely one of many, many, examples.
One user here, Xizero, asked me to describe the prophecy in question, as it were, the contentious prophecy, the one pertaining to civil war in South Africa, the one which has been half fulfilled. Here is how the general understanding of his final prophecy works:
BUT FIRST, ONE NOTE: I AM NOT AN EXPERT AND I DO NOT PRETEND TO BE AN EXPERT. I MERELY BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT OF SIENER VAN RENSBURG IN ANSWER TO THE TREAD QUESTION WHAT WAS THE CATALYST WHICH TURNED YOU INTO A PREPPER?, AND PEOPLE SUBSEQUENTLY ASKED ME TO ELABORATE THE TOPIC IN A NEW THREAD. Please do your own reading, and do not depend upon me as an expert to inform you accurately. I should mention that everything I am writing is from memory; the four copies of the story of SvR which I have read were lent to friends and not returned, so I don't even have a copy with me to use as a reference. I tried to buy one this morning and couldn't find one.
1) democracy!
2) world adores the first black president
3) the first black president dies contemporary to a real nasty bastard being the then-incumbent president
4) whole world mourns for first black president, people come from all over to pay homage
5) first black president lies in state for 10 days prior to burial
6) after the burial, a massive strike
7) thereafter civil insurrection "at the time of the melting of the snows", which could either mean that we haven't noticed but we actually live in Norway and it'll happen in springtime in Scandinavia, or that it is going to happen during a period when people see/believe/understand that the snows are melting (global warming in Antarctica maybe; or maybe we don't fully understand it yet; who knows? Not me. I have suspicions... but I don't really and truly know).
8) after a period the blacks vent their frustrations, whatever those frustrations may be, upon the whites
9) those attacks are put down by the government
10) some time later the attacks are resumed, and this time there is no stopping the carnage, and it becomes an all-out civil war in which the whites are slaughtered almost to a man
11) it will be so severe that Siener told his mate "I see no houses because there will be no houses left. The few of us who survive will live in tents".
12) only one region of SA will be safe, and it will become a redoubt for the whites. No-one is sure where that region is, but there is a school of thought which suggests that it lies approximately between Mossel Bay/George and Jeffrey's Bay (ish). You could loosely call it "the Tsitsikamma/Garden Route/Wilderness regions and surrounds", if you like
13) the whole drama will play out over a period coinciding with big trouble in Europe. Siener said explicitly that we'll be lucky to get away with what happens to us in South Africa
14) Indians (South African Indians) will be the instigators of the blacks' nonsense against the whites. This was predicted at a time when the Indian population in SA was very, very, small indeed, and of no influence whatsoever.
15) many whites will flee SA just as the trouble starts, especially English speakers and (he expressed this repeatedly and explicitly) Afrikaners who have been assimilated into western/non-Boer/non-Afrikaans/English culture and who have forgotten the struggles and the God-fearing faith of their fore-fathers. He described how the ships leaving Durban harbour would be full to overflowing. Bear in mind that aeroplanes were almost unknown then, and that the reference to ships might be allegorical. This is prophecy, not mathematics.
16) Germany would eventually aid the Boers after the whole world had turned their backs on the Boers
Now, I must confess to one thing, in fairness to one member of this forum who pointed out that Siener van Rensburg was discredited when only, say, half of the above prophecy came true (at the time that is was expected to do so!!!!). It was believed by many people, many interpreters of Siener van Rensburg's prophecies - some of which are told in allegorical terms such as Old Testament prophets used (by the same token, some were absolutely explicit and in simple language) - that die nag van die lang messe (the night of the long knives when the attacks upon whites would commence) would occur while Nelson Mandela lay in state. Clearly, either Siener van Rensburg, or his many interpreters, was wrong. And that is not the only example. The member has a fair point, there is no denying it.
My point, however, is "And what about the rest that he got right? How do you explain the uncanny nature of so many of his predictions? Why overlook it?" The choice is entirely yours.
Interestingly, the diaries kept by Siener van Rensburg's friend Boy Mussman which recorded SvR's own interpretations of his prophecies - which were actually written down by his daughter, were confiscated by the Special Branch of the police upon direct order of Prime Minister Genl. Jan Smuts in the fifties (some of the prophecies appeared to be very anti-Smuts), but enough material remained in other hands for research to be done for the various books.
As they say, internet medical sites are no substitute for going to see your doctor. I cannot begin to do justice to the whole tale. Buy the book(s) if you can find a copy.
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