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Should the United States get rid of Medicare/Medicaid?

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Taoist
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2,023 Posts
It's probably too late to get rid of it entirely...they might consider FIXING it, get rid of the fraud and waste, hello.
 

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Banned
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486 Posts
To many uninsured old people if we do. That would suck unless you enjoy all of them dying off from treatable medical conditions so there is a younger healthy American population. That would cut the cost of health care dramatically. Medicare is something that will have to be phased out over time because of that.

I still dont like the idea of medicare thou.
 

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Neo Confederate
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2,256 Posts
I am completely against everything the "federal" government does.

From health care to education to taxation and keeping a standing army.

Also sucking our blood and sending it "overseas" in the form of "aid".

If an individual state wants to pick up one of these socialist programs thats fine.

Then if I don't like it I can move to another state.
 

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radioactive
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765 Posts
Yeah,that would be just right. Cut out medicare after we have paid into it for decades,and I personally have never used it. Go ahead and scrap it, I love to get ripped off by greedy corrupt politicians,big pharma and well meaning do-gooders. When I do get to retirement it wont be there.Can I get a refund please???????Most people seem to forget that we the people have been having this taken out of our checks for years,the reason the system is broke isnt that we havent paid for it,it is because the politicians opened the SS fund up to the general fund and basically stole all the money.
 

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Registered
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880 Posts
Yes, wean the masses off of Federal illegal programs and go back to the original intent of our Founding Fathers. This includes the illegal ownership/seizure of land by a governing body.

The Articles of the Confederation & the 10th Amendment say it all...
 

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I love this *****
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33,883 Posts
We need a total overhaul of the Healthcare Industry with zero governmental intrustion. We need to remove all socialist programs. We need tort reform with caps placed on lawsuit awards and we need to penalize those who sue doctors for frivolous reasons. We need a $25.00 minimum office-call co-pay across the board. This will deter those who go to a doctor every time they have a sniffle or a stubbed toe.

There's a program called TQM or Total Quality Management. This program was used when Harley Davidson was about to go under back in the late 70s or early 80s I believe. The corporation had become top heavy and foolhardy. What TQM did was involve the blue collar, front line employees in the discussions concerning the future of Harley Davidson. The workers spoke and the management listened. The workers had some very good ideas based on what they saw at the ground level. When their ideas were implemented, Harley made a 180 degree turn and we now have the best Harleys the world has ever seen.

We need to have a huge discussion between the ground level nurses, doctors, administrators, insurance companies, insurance payers, etc. We can fix our problems without government intervention. The government runs the VA hospitals, Medicare, Medicaid, the Postal Service, Fannie and Freddie. It fails at everything it touches. Do we really want them to manage our future healthcare on a larger scale? HELL NO!
 
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One thing I dont like is the number of For-Profit Hospitals. If all hospitals were non-profit entities then the cost of healthcare would also decrease. The For-Profit Hospitals charge 19 percent more then the nonprofits.
 

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Spooky
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1,698 Posts
Um, you've got it backwards.

For-profit entities compete for customers which tends to drive prices down. Also, for-profits strive (in theory) to cut costs which goes straight to the bottom line, increasing profits. Competition = lower prices. Lower costs = increased efficiency.

Non-profit entities are notoriously inefficient. Since there's no incentive to lower costs or increase efficiency, they tend to be bloated and top-heavy.
 

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Um, you've got it backwards.

For-profit entities compete for customers which tends to drive prices down. Also, for-profits strive (in theory) to cut costs which goes straight to the bottom line, increasing profits. Competition = lower prices. Lower costs = increased efficiency.

Non-profit entities are notoriously inefficient. Since there's no incentive to lower costs or increase efficiency, they tend to be bloated and top-heavy.
The independent studies show otherwise. In fact corporate hospitals also show 2 percent more deaths per average.

People running corporate hospitals are as bad as the people running corporate banks.
 

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Spooky
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1,698 Posts
Well, I was kinda quoting EC 101 at you. It's not like you can always go down the street to another hospital if they're not competitive.

The healthcare system in the US does create an artificial environment where normal market forces don't work. The current situation was mostly set in place by the Reagan administration back in the 80's. His vision was to lower costs and increase efficiency through free market economics. Instead we have a mess.
 

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The independent studies show otherwise. In fact corporate hospitals also show 2 percent more deaths per average.

People running corporate hospitals are as bad as the people running corporate banks.


My aunt is a RN and she used to work for a non-profit hospital. The money that hospital wasted was/is insane. They would get towards the end of the fiscal year, and then go and repave the parking lot because they had extra money. They would buy houses, not because they needed them, but because they would lose funding if they had too much money at the end of the year. Heathcare costs are high, not because the hospitals are skimming, but because of all the government regulations. There are several hospitals in Texas that have gone under because they are forced by the government to take care of Illegals that come over, get treatment, then go home and never pay the bill.
 

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Um, you've got it backwards.

For-profit entities compete for customers which tends to drive prices down. Also, for-profits strive (in theory) to cut costs which goes straight to the bottom line, increasing profits. Competition = lower prices. Lower costs = increased efficiency.

Non-profit entities are notoriously inefficient. Since there's no incentive to lower costs or increase efficiency, they tend to be bloated and top-heavy.
There's a big difference between theory and practice. This was one of the first things that one of business administration professors taught me. The interworkings of a business should follow the theory, but corporate executive greed sometimes get in the way.

Hospital corporations suffer the same problems as most other corporations.

The first thing is that the hospital corporations have more employees. They have to have the corporate oversight with the board of directors, regional managers and advertising staff. This makes it so that a hospital chain has to make more in order to pay its workers.

A smaller regional hospital will not have this problem.

The reason that nonprofit entities do better in the hospital industry is that they don't have to please corporate shareholders. This means their overhead is much less because they don't have to pay out dividends.

A corporation is driven by profit. The company must please its shareholders. In order to do that the company has to expand. To do this a lot of corporations open lines of credit and issues bonds. Then they use that money to expand hoping that future prosperity will repay these lines of credit. Paying down the interest on this debt raises their operating costs. Sound familiar. This is the problem with most corporations.

Now as far as the efficiency. All the well known hospitals are nonprofits.

Johns Hopkins Hospital has been the top hospital for 17 consecutive years. It's a non profit.

Mayo Clinic is number 2. It's a nonprofit hospital

Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical center is number 3, it is a nonprofit.

Duke Hospital is a nonprofit, and it's in the top 20.

In fact when you go down the list, you will see that most, if not all, of the top rated are either University Hospitals or Nonprofit hospitals. There is a reason for that.

The reason I believe is that those hospitals aren't being run by the doctors, they are being run by some business administrator with little or no medical experience or training.

That's just a minor problem thou. The problem is in the system.

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After my sister, Littlemiss up there, was hurt. She was in critical condition and I was called from Fort Bragg to go see her. I used up all of my leave. Then a National Guard position opened up that not many people qualify for, and I was able to work out a sweet deal to transfer (lucky!). I saw some of the worst things. Over a period of three or four days they would take an Xray of the same spot to basically watch it heal and then charge for it. Over a 28 day stay they Xrayed here ribs over 20 times. I mean if they were planning surgery, that would be one thing, but all the surgeries were done. I understand the MRIs after the surgery, the before and after and follow up but the Xrays were a mess.

That and do you know how much it takes for a throat specialist to stick a camera down your throat for 20 minutes. I mean the camera is wrapped in a plastic bag so it's reusable. They still charge you up the butt for it.

I mean stool softeners and all this other stuff. The problem wasn't with her god damn bowles, those were fine. The problem was that something smashed through her cage, not through her intestines. They put you on those things if you come in with a head injury. It's ridiculous.
 

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The Jed.
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2,828 Posts
Personally, I think it should be fixed and made to waste less, rather than starting a new program or getting rid of it. There are some people out there who truly need healthcare but cannot get it, like retirees who are on limited incomes and lack health benefits from their old jobs.
 

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Well, I was kinda quoting EC 101 at you. It's not like you can always go down the street to another hospital if they're not competitive.

The healthcare system in the US does create an artificial environment where normal market forces don't work. The current situation was mostly set in place by the Reagan administration back in the 80's. His vision was to lower costs and increase efficiency through free market economics. Instead we have a mess.
In a way the free market system has helped. Originally most of the hospitals were owned by government entities. Now 62 percent of them are private non-profit facilities.

The For-Profit facilities also dump a lot of the higher risk stuff like emergency medicine, which makes up most of the market. This leads into one of the reasons they don't do as well.

The reason why the corporations aren't doing so well is that the hirer risk patients pay more for their medical services (cancer, heart, transplant ect). A lot of times when people have prologned illnesses they get the chance to choose their hospitals. Those who can will usually try to find the best doctors.

Well the best doctors try to use their position of being awesome to find the work at the best hospitals. Those hospitals are usually the ones that have been around longer and have pioneered in the major fields. This means an older hospital with a good reputation gets the first pick in doctors and therefore the demand is hirer.

Since the For-Profit Hospital is a new idea that came around in the 60s, the older nonprofit hospitals still have those reputations. It has taken John Hopkins 153 years to build the reputation it has today. Since it has the reputation it gets the doctors, which in turn gets the specialty patients which therefore gets the money.

It will take a long time for the For-Profit hospitals to build that reputation. That along with the need to pay more people and please shareholders actually make them have a potential to be more expensive.
 
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