[Rubber Ducky]

There was a controversial plan to teach school kids how to react if there was a gunman in the classroom:

Controversy Erupts Over School Proposal to Teach Kids to Fight Back Against Gunmen

A proposal to teach children as young as 10 years old to fight back against a classroom gunman is causing quite a stir in a small town in Massachusetts.

The Georgetown Public Schools in Georgetown, Mass., are considering a proposal to teach kids to fend off a gunman with backpacks or textbooks as part of a proposal to revamp their "Code Blue" safety policy.

Fight back LINK

At first it sounded like a bad plan but after pondering on it for a while it kinda makes sense. When we were young we were taught to give in to someone trying to rob you or taught to not fight back in times of aggression. It turns out that passivism didn't work during Columbine and other shootings.

Maybe they may be too young now but also maybe nothing will happen to them at this age. The thought being is that by the time they are in middle school or high school it will be ingrained in their head that self-preservation is more important than giving in to home-grown terrorists.

That story is in contrast to a different school planning gunman drills instead of fire drills:

In an Era of School Shootings, a New Drill

MONMOUTH JUNCTION, N.J. — Tim Matheney stalked the silent hallways of South Brunswick High School one recent Wednesday at 1:07 p.m., peering into dark, seemingly empty classrooms and jotting down room numbers whenever he heard giggles behind locked doors. Students were supposed to remain silent and out of sight.

Mr. Matheney, the school’s principal, was roaming the suburban campus as if he were an “active shooter,” à la Virginia Tech or Columbine, as part of a “lockdown drill” now required twice a year here and in many schools around the country.

Gunman drill LINK

I have seen the Columbine video and many of them tried to hide under tables and it did nothing but prolong there life for a few moments more. I would post a link to the Columbine vid but don't know if that would be a violation of this fourm's policy so I will not do that. If you forgot what the students did and how the gunman reacted, you might want to watch the school surveillance vid once again.

Since teachers are not allowed to carry guns in most schools and it could take a half-an-hour plus for the cops to do anything, should students be taught to fight back or hide under desks? If elementary is too early to teach these kids about defending themselves then what would be a good age to teach them?

 

[PAGUY]

That is a fight or flight issue. If the fight option is chosen then they have to be in the right place, at the right time, have the ability to fight back and survive. Most experts will say that they reccomend that you do not fight through the situtation unless you are in direct danger not potential danger.

 

[Ls1]

I would say that in columbine, almost everyone was in direct danger.


I've watched vidoes about one shooting, can't remember which, where the gunmen were walking back and forth with people "hiding" under desks...and the gunmen were completely unafraid of being tripped...I was sitting there screaming in my head "TRIP THE MOTHER$#%^@#$!". If i'm going out, I'm going to at least try to take the bastard with me. If I have a chance, I'm pushing his nose so far towards his brain, or crushing his adams apple and wind pipe...

Of course now that i'm older I at least always have a knife. In asituation where I could possibly suprised attack I would not hesitate to hamstring or slit any vital blood pathways. Hmmm, I really need to work on getting my CCW.


I guess I'm saying that if it looksl ike death, I'd rather die fighting than die crying and begging for my life.

 

[Kregener]

If you are unarmed, and we all know ALL students are, flight should be your first option with FIGHT bringing up a close second.

Hiding under a desk is neither, and about the stupidest idea I can think of.

 

[SmallGame2100]

Hiding will get you killed. Sometimes, very rare though, it may not get you killed.

If I know theres a gunman or gunmen in my school, then I'd try to find a position in which I can surprise him and potentially take him down.

Just what I do. Others may be different.

 

[PAGUY]

A co-ordinated attack will work in most circumstances but the down side of that statement is that most people are keeping their heads straight. As far as the ALL students are unarmed I simply ask you to look in any bookbag, school kids pocket or area where they might be caught when an incident occurs. A pencil or pen can be used as an improvised hand spear, a can of disenfectant spray can be used to blind an attacker or used with a lighter (even though we know that no kids smoke.....yeah right) as an improvised blow torch, a chair or desk leg can be used as an improvised club, a set of keys can be used as a striking tool on any soft body areas or as a scraping/slashing tool,etc. Do not ever think that kids are unarmed. Just talk for a few minutes with any CO that has been on the job for more than 6 months and your eyes will be opened up as to being armed or unarmed.

 

[Cryptophylaxis]

If you are unarmed, and we all know ALL students are, flight should be your first option with FIGHT bringing up a close second.

Hiding under a desk is neither, and about the stupidest idea I can think of.

Unarmed doesn't mean helpless though. I'm guessing the part about all students being unarmed was sarcasm but if not look up a few of Dwind's threads and see what he has confiscated from some students.

 

[SmallGame2100]

In 1st grade I brought a knife to school. I wasnt bringing it to hurt anyone, but to carve on a tree. Young kids with weapons can be dangerous.

 

[Gunner65]

I guess I'm saying that if it looksl ike death, I'd rather die fighting than die crying and begging for my life.[/quote]


True, better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6
"Gunner"

 

[SmallGame2100]

Probably the best line. Ever.

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

 

[LuniticFringeInc]

If you are unarmed, and we all know ALL students are, flight should be your first option with FIGHT bringing up a close second.

Hiding under a desk is neither, and about the stupidest idea I can think of.

If you cant run then what have you got to loose?

 

[Ford Prefect]

If students rushed the Columbine shooters, and used pack mentality, think of how many fewer kids would have been killed.

 

[Rubber Ducky]

If students rushed the Columbine shooters, and used pack mentality, think of how many fewer kids would have been killed.

Some would have to sacrifice themselves so that others may live. One would question that if adults may not be able to make that decision, how can students. I could go on a tangent that making guys more in touch with there feelings and feminizing them may have done more harm than good because not all boys grow into men but I'll leave it at that.

Teaching them to hide may make them sitting ducks. I am not posting this for flash or flare, but rather what students can go through and for a discussion on what our children should be taught in school regarding a gunman. If this is wrong then I or the admin will remove this and I appologize ahead of time. I am not posting this for any reason other than for the topic of this discussion:

**Edit: This is from movie "Zero Day", not actual surveillance vid**

Warning: graphic vid LINK

I agree with fight or flight like what was posted above and flight should be the first option, and fighting last. I don't think hiding under desks should be anywhere in there. Maybe teach students to pick up a chair or desk and break the glass and jump outside.

Here is an article about a TX town allowing teachers to carry concealed weapons:

In Texas School, Teachers Carry Books and Guns

HARROLD, Tex. — Students in this tiny town of grain silos and ranch-style houses spent much of the first couple of days in school this week trying to guess which of their teachers were carrying pistols under their clothes.

“We made fun of them,” said Eric Howard, a 16-year-old high school junior. “Everybody knows everybody here. We will find out.”

The school board in this impoverished rural hamlet in North Texas has drawn national attention with its decision to let some teachers carry concealed weapons, a track no other school in the country has followed. The idea is to ward off a massacre along the lines of what happened at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999.

TX teacher LINK

I don't think all teachers should carry weapons. If you are scared that you might hit somebody or are scared of guns then obviously do not carry one. However if a teacher has gone through a concealed carry course and knows the law and is comfortable about carrying a concealed gun, then they should be allowed to carry one.

As for makeshift weapons such as pens or whatever is at hand, maybe that is a discussion for home with the parents instead of a school teaching them this. My daughter always use to have a can of mace/pepper spray in her purse all through middle school and her first year of high school because she rode the bus. I don't think she carries it now but a face full of mace/pepper spray from students might be a viable option too slow down and maybe even overcome an attacker.

Of course it is sad that we even have to teach kids what to do if SHTF.

 

[jfountain2]

I ain't goin down without a fight, armed or unarmed, if you wanna kill me ya gotta earn it.

 

[Ford Prefect]

That's a bogus video by the way.. Not real footage..

 

[RosesInWinter]

When you are trapped in a classroom, flight is not an option.

If you are unarmed, and we all know ALL students are, flight should be your first option with FIGHT bringing up a close second.

Hiding under a desk is neither, and about the stupidest idea I can think of.

 

[illinoisgunguy]

it is our job as parents to teach our kids not to be sheep waiting for slaughter....how can u trust the left wing education system to keep our children safe? their answer would be more self esteem training....i believe its more of an urban problem, where the children and their parents have been dumbed down and lost the will to fight and survive. cant help but think if that sawed off POS that was at virginia tech had pulled that in southern illinois a few country boys would have shoved his guns up his ass....

 

[Ramona M. Faunce]

We need to make sure that our children have the backbone to live and survive. A wimp is a wimp and will be a wimp. A survivalist will survive or die trying.

What I fear in my childrens deaths is not their death so much as their last few minutes of life. Did they suffer, were they scared and crying out for me. That hurts a lot.

I would rather know that my child did their best to survive, but lost their life. Then know that they were on the floor crying out for me to help them, and I couldn't. This might be considered selfish.

Give your children the RIGHT to survive.

 

[builtfordtuff95]

fight back

 

[Brother Bear]

we are tought to hide in the corner of the room basicly making us a flock of sitting ducks but if any thing happens if possible im not going to be trapped in some room to die lol