Shotgun vs 22
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IMO shotgun weighs more as does the ammo. .22 is smaller lighter and the ammo is also lighter. .22 will reach our further but the shot must be placed extremely well to be a killing shot. The shotgun gives more choice of ammo type. Assorted shot size, slug, sabot which makes the shotgun more versatile. I think more lethal for food or defense. than the .22 with OOB (9 - 32 cal pellets per shot).
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I'm not a great shooter. Within its range, for me, a shotgun is way more lethal and versatile.
That said, I've dished out some death with my scoped Marlin .22.
That said, I've dished out some death with my scoped Marlin .22.
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17,537 Posts
Get a chamber adapter to convert your shotgun to 22 LR. Learn to index it so you can actually hit stuff consistently. CCI CB Longs are almost silent and hit hard enough for small game at short range. You need to fashion a rear sight you can stick on with tape or a magnet.
My INCH cart has a pistol gripped Remington 870 Express 3" mag 12 gauge cut to 20" with screw in chokes and an extended magazine. . I put a mid bead in the rib to serve as the rear sight The sling carries 10 rounds. My favorite camp defender load is 41 pellets of #4 buckshot or 18 pellets of OO. My cast Lyman 1.25 oz. sabot slugs are good enough to hit 3# coffee cans at 90 yards.
If you learn to reload you can make nice small game rounds for almost are gun with cast bullets. 45-70, 450 Marlin, 458 Win etc. can be loaded with shot to be 410 like.
My INCH cart has a pistol gripped Remington 870 Express 3" mag 12 gauge cut to 20" with screw in chokes and an extended magazine. . I put a mid bead in the rib to serve as the rear sight The sling carries 10 rounds. My favorite camp defender load is 41 pellets of #4 buckshot or 18 pellets of OO. My cast Lyman 1.25 oz. sabot slugs are good enough to hit 3# coffee cans at 90 yards.
If you learn to reload you can make nice small game rounds for almost are gun with cast bullets. 45-70, 450 Marlin, 458 Win etc. can be loaded with shot to be 410 like.
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615 Posts
Given the two I'd take a .22LR every time. I own both and the .22 has been used a lot more. One can carry "tons" more ammo.
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There is a place in my scenarios for the .12 guage.
You can go up close & personal- or you can harvest birds deer elk or bear. Depends on your distance and target and load. I'd prefer not to be too close. But a .12 guage is an under 50 yd weapon.
You can go up close & personal- or you can harvest birds deer elk or bear. Depends on your distance and target and load. I'd prefer not to be too close. But a .12 guage is an under 50 yd weapon.
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Although I am a huge proponent of having a shotgun, it all depends on your situation.
If I was on foot, as a lot of people like to envision post SHTF, I would take the .22LR . If I am in my BOV I would have a shotgun and quite a few rounds.
Bottomline is that trying to get one or even two firearms to be a one size fits all is impractical. IMO.
If I was on foot, as a lot of people like to envision post SHTF, I would take the .22LR . If I am in my BOV I would have a shotgun and quite a few rounds.
Bottomline is that trying to get one or even two firearms to be a one size fits all is impractical. IMO.
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Between the two choices...a shotgun with some adapters for other rounds...
That just reminded me of the old .410 mossberg pump my great grandpa had. The barrel looked almost identically thick as my 1917 wichester 30-06. Makes me wonder if you could cycle/fire 45 long colt in it. Now that would be a cool woods toy
:Thanks for the input everybody. I'd definitely say this is one of those 'sit down and find out what you're preparing for before making a decision' type ordeals. I've always loved the concept of the barrel inserts for a break action 12 gauge. I want to say its the 'x caliber' system that has rifled inserts like 8'' long or something like that for many different calibers. However I distinctly remember the CEO of the company is the dude from doomsday preppers that blew his damn finger off :headshake::rofl:
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17,537 Posts
410's are .410 down to about .383 full choke on my Stevens 22-410, a .452 bullet is a bad plan.
I have PO Ackley rifle built on a 600 Rem action. It is a 350 Rem mag blown out to 45 caliber. Think belted 45-70 or 1/4" short 458 Win mag. The rifle weighs 5.25 # loaded with sling. Full tilt loads are punishing on both ends.
I developed my own shot rounds that pattern very nicely in that rifle. 5/8 oz. of #6 doing about 2400 fps from the 18" barrel. I got 9 grouse with 7 shots. I lined 2 pair up on the ground by kneeling down, the rest were shot on the wing.
Catching dinner is best done with traps and snares. 22's are not a good choice for self defense IMHO.
I have PO Ackley rifle built on a 600 Rem action. It is a 350 Rem mag blown out to 45 caliber. Think belted 45-70 or 1/4" short 458 Win mag. The rifle weighs 5.25 # loaded with sling. Full tilt loads are punishing on both ends.
I developed my own shot rounds that pattern very nicely in that rifle. 5/8 oz. of #6 doing about 2400 fps from the 18" barrel. I got 9 grouse with 7 shots. I lined 2 pair up on the ground by kneeling down, the rest were shot on the wing.
Catching dinner is best done with traps and snares. 22's are not a good choice for self defense IMHO.
It depends on your location. Eastern woods vs central prairie vs Rocky mountains...there's no single "best" for all of that.
On foot, I don't see any "secondary" long gun as a real option. If not on foot...then both a .22 and a shotgun are absolutely going with me.:thumb:
On foot, I don't see any "secondary" long gun as a real option. If not on foot...then both a .22 and a shotgun are absolutely going with me.:thumb:
I would definitely take the .22lr, it has much more versatility. If your going to take a 12 gauge and carry adaptors and other kinds of ammo then you might as well sling the .22 over your back and front carry the shotgun, why mess with adaptors and trying to get a bullet in an adaptor on the fly when you really need it. Keep it simple.
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Shotgun, no question.
Weight - Mossberg 500a plain-jane is barely 6lb. Less if you run the 18.5" barrel.
Adaptability - 3" Mag slug will take out a bear (personal experience with a moose). #6 bird shot is your common overland bird. Turkey loads and Buckshot for all kinds of applications.
Yes, you are correct, you can't shoot a squirrel or gopher and expect to eat what's left. But how much "food" do you really get off of small groundings? Very little.
To each their own, but I have zero interest in a .22
Weight - Mossberg 500a plain-jane is barely 6lb. Less if you run the 18.5" barrel.
Adaptability - 3" Mag slug will take out a bear (personal experience with a moose). #6 bird shot is your common overland bird. Turkey loads and Buckshot for all kinds of applications.
Yes, you are correct, you can't shoot a squirrel or gopher and expect to eat what's left. But how much "food" do you really get off of small groundings? Very little.
To each their own, but I have zero interest in a .22
The OP asked about a Bug-Out scenario so I'm going to assume that for whatever reason, the plan to leave home base was implemented and they are going somewhere in specific. This is where the pretenders get separated from the planners.
You must have someplace to go where there are cached supplies because you won't survive off the land as a refugee shooting squirrels and rabbits in the "wood" somewhere near a "forest" unless it's somewhere in the very deep woods where you already know how to trap and forage. For this purpose, a refugee is someone who isn't at home base and is transiting to get to one using what's in their car/boat (soon to be disabled) or their back. So I'm going to interpret your question to mean "should I take two firearms while travelling from Home Base to Backup Base and should one of them be a .22LR" Well, if you are doing this solo, then you're already in serious trouble if only because you can't post security so pick one battle rifle and have 5-mags for it. If not, then for groups of 3 or more, one of thes guns should be a Ruger 10/22 (or similar) and the rest should be battle rifles using a uniform magazine. A shotgun & ammo is way too heavy for transiting and you should be carrying weight in water/food and avoiding making noise at all costs which means no hunting for birds along the way. Your battle rifles and cross-comm gear while transiting are only for breaking contact with a force, not anything else.
If you bug-out and don't know where you are going, have a plan to get there, have pre-thought out supplies & equipment when you get there, or you aren't experienced enough to survive Indian style in the deep woods, then you aren't bugging-out, you are becoming a refuge and you might as well head directly to the nearest FEMA camp. Thus, my thinking that you bring the .22LR and the battle rifles if in a group of 3 or more but only for the weight savings it will bring that can go to food/water in your packs.
When thinking about this stuff, I strongly suggest you break-down an AR-15 into its upper/lower and stash it inside your go bag along with the rest of your gear (this is actually how I store it) and take a hike. In a true SHTF scenario, you'd be carrying it assembled at some point but when you first bug out, it's just in the pack ready to go with you. The space that gets freed-up will be used to fill your 2nd two-liter camelback because sourcing water is way to difficult/dangerous to make that effort more than you need to. Take the hike - don't eat - pretend you had to leave just then. Where will you get water/food, which way do you go, what are the threats you need to think about, how will you hook-up with your team if there is just texting for 24-hrs, etc? All our plans fall apart once we run random tests. I know. I've been doing it a long time.
You must have someplace to go where there are cached supplies because you won't survive off the land as a refugee shooting squirrels and rabbits in the "wood" somewhere near a "forest" unless it's somewhere in the very deep woods where you already know how to trap and forage. For this purpose, a refugee is someone who isn't at home base and is transiting to get to one using what's in their car/boat (soon to be disabled) or their back. So I'm going to interpret your question to mean "should I take two firearms while travelling from Home Base to Backup Base and should one of them be a .22LR" Well, if you are doing this solo, then you're already in serious trouble if only because you can't post security so pick one battle rifle and have 5-mags for it. If not, then for groups of 3 or more, one of thes guns should be a Ruger 10/22 (or similar) and the rest should be battle rifles using a uniform magazine. A shotgun & ammo is way too heavy for transiting and you should be carrying weight in water/food and avoiding making noise at all costs which means no hunting for birds along the way. Your battle rifles and cross-comm gear while transiting are only for breaking contact with a force, not anything else.
If you bug-out and don't know where you are going, have a plan to get there, have pre-thought out supplies & equipment when you get there, or you aren't experienced enough to survive Indian style in the deep woods, then you aren't bugging-out, you are becoming a refuge and you might as well head directly to the nearest FEMA camp. Thus, my thinking that you bring the .22LR and the battle rifles if in a group of 3 or more but only for the weight savings it will bring that can go to food/water in your packs.
When thinking about this stuff, I strongly suggest you break-down an AR-15 into its upper/lower and stash it inside your go bag along with the rest of your gear (this is actually how I store it) and take a hike. In a true SHTF scenario, you'd be carrying it assembled at some point but when you first bug out, it's just in the pack ready to go with you. The space that gets freed-up will be used to fill your 2nd two-liter camelback because sourcing water is way to difficult/dangerous to make that effort more than you need to. Take the hike - don't eat - pretend you had to leave just then. Where will you get water/food, which way do you go, what are the threats you need to think about, how will you hook-up with your team if there is just texting for 24-hrs, etc? All our plans fall apart once we run random tests. I know. I've been doing it a long time.
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101 Posts
22s are good, but you must keep them clean! 90% of all the 22s brought into my shop for repair are not broken! They are filthy!
Once cleaned they work fine!
Customer: My Marlin/Ruger/Savage/Mossberg/What-ever 22 stopped working? Can you fix it!
Me (after looking it over): When was this gun cleaned last?
Customer: (Deer in headlights look) Uh...never. It's a 22!
Me: Yeah!
Once cleaned they work fine!
Customer: My Marlin/Ruger/Savage/Mossberg/What-ever 22 stopped working? Can you fix it!
Me (after looking it over): When was this gun cleaned last?
Customer: (Deer in headlights look) Uh...never. It's a 22!
Me: Yeah!
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3,589 Posts
While it's true you can carry far more ammo with a .22, how many people do you expect to have to fight?
A well placed shot with a .22LR CAN stop a threat. A well placed shot with a 12 gauge WILL stop a threat.
Hunting small game is another matter that leans me towards .22 if using a firearm to get food is what you want to do. I would rather fish and trap and keep a firearm for self defense. Especially since ammo is finite.
A well placed shot with a .22LR CAN stop a threat. A well placed shot with a 12 gauge WILL stop a threat.
Hunting small game is another matter that leans me towards .22 if using a firearm to get food is what you want to do. I would rather fish and trap and keep a firearm for self defense. Especially since ammo is finite.
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186 Posts
That's like comparing a Rottweiler to a rat for a pet lol. Shotgun is much more versatile. You can do about anything with it. Hunt, shoot flares, fight, defeat barriers etc and there are a ridiculous amount of ammo choices- bird shot, buckshot, slugs, rubber rounds, bean bags, salt rock, flechettes, dragons breath (where legal) but is heavier, recoiled FAR greater and range is limited, even with slugs. .22 is easy to shoot cheap and you can hold A LOT of rounds per pound. Anemic round, low penetration, not very versatile.
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What is the "primary" rifle?
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