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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is the best way to send a pistol to someone? Can this be done through the mail? Or is UPS the better choice? Maybe I should be asking, can this be done by either method? This will be from private party to private party, no dealer involved. Thanks for the info. :D:
 

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Doubts Most Everything
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it has to be set trough a dealer to a dealer and there will be a check on the other end like they were buying a new gun.
Actually, an individual can send a handgun himself. It just has to be received by a FFL dealer, who will charge something for the service (anything over about $30 is gouging), unless they're tight with the guy who's getting it or something. You can sell a gun online and ship it yourself to FFL on buyer's end.

You can also send a handgun yourself to any factory/repair facility which has FFL (essentially, all of them). They can also send that handgun directly back to you.

Must be sent overnight service with UPS or FedEx, signature required on receiving end. You must acknowledge to that carrier that it contains handgun, but no external marker designating it as such is to be put on it. Good idea to have the receiver's FFL number to show shipper, sometimes they ask for proof.

No ground service, no USPS.

I'm probably forgetting something, but that's pretty much it.

edit: yeah I forgot about the FFL document itself - seems the receiving FFL has to mail or email/fax you a form that has the gun info on it along with his FFL number and that has to be inside the package. I THINK this is correct, but I can't remember exactly about that detail, I'm sure others will chime in. At any rate, the guy on the other end can tell you what the FFL dealer requires and what he needs to send to you.

- OS
 

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Doubts Most Everything
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Hey, one other thing I didn't mention.
I assumed you were sending to person in another state?

If you are sending to someone in SAME STATE, you can send directly, it does NOT have to go to a FFL holder. Still have to send overnight w/sig UPS or FedEx, but no FFL involvement needed. This is federal law.

However, the fly in the ointment is that FedEx/UPS might debate that with you depending on who you get and their knowledge level, since you still are supposed to notify them that there is a handgun in there.
Thought I'd mention that...

Just as an aside, you can also ship a firearm to yourself in a different state without FFL involved, care of someone else, if it is to be used for lawful hunting. And ship it back to yourself with no FFL. This is also federal law. I can't remember if this includes handguns or not, though.

- OS
 

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I have a related question.

I just purchased a pistol through Gunbroker. It was just received at my local FFL dealer, who told me this morning that he can't transfer it to me without a copy of the shipper's FFL, and that it is a violation of Fed law for a non-FFL holder to ship a firearm.

This is counter to everything I have ever heard about purchasing and transferring a firearm from out of state. The dealer has been in business as long as I can remember... is he correct?

I looked at the shipping guidelines on Gunbroker, which says that UPS will not accept a firearm shipment from someone who doesn't have an FFL, and they will only ship pistols next day air (this pistol I just bought was shipped UPS ground).
 

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I help enlighten folks
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I have a related question.

I just purchased a pistol through Gunbroker. It was just received at my local FFL dealer, who told me this morning that he can't transfer it to me without a copy of the shipper's FFL, and that it is a violation of Fed law for a non-FFL holder to ship a firearm.

This is counter to everything I have ever heard about purchasing and transferring a firearm from out of state. The dealer has been in business as long as I can remember... is he correct?

I looked at the shipping guidelines on Gunbroker, which says that UPS will not accept a firearm shipment from someone who doesn't have an FFL, and they will only ship pistols next day air (this pistol I just bought was shipped UPS ground).
I've bought three guns via gunbroker.
in two cases i had my dealer fax the seller their FFL, in another I sent a hardcopy along with the check. after that I simply paid the 25 dollar fee at my FFL and did the paperwork and got FBI approval.
in Indiana. The sellers were all in other states.
 

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Gunsmith
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Edit: this was in reply to BudgetSurvivalist

You don't have to be a dealer to ship a gun to a dealer, some shipping companies may have different rules but by the law you don't have to be I did it plenty of times before I got my ffl.

However it sometimes can be cheaper to go threw a friendly FFL because they can ship it usps and don't have to ship overnight shipping ether when shipping usps.

Your above situation is why its always best to talk to your dealer before you purchase so you know everything is going to work smooth, theirs so much hearsay and bs out there some dealers don't know what the law is or don't even want to deal with it. Some batfe agents even give wrong info. However if you look up the actual laws involved gunbrokers shipping faq has it all correct and I look at it from time to time myself just to remind myself how things work if I haven't shipped in a while.

edit: fergot back to the main question

You must get a copy of the dealers ffl you plan to ship the firearm to YOU MUST SHIP TO A LICENSED DEALER also when you do get the ffl via email fax or mail it must be signed, then I recommend going on the batfe website and using there ezcheck system to confirm its a valid ffl. Bring the ffl or a copy of it when you go to the fedex office they may want to see it.

From above it sounds like ups isn't shipping anymore unless you have an ffl used to be they did I shipped threw them before I had my ffl but to note when I didn't have my ffl I ALWAYS had problems shipping firearms weather it be pistol or rifle that is until I found the main branch of usps in my area and shipped rifles from there, pistol's were still the ****s and I actually shipped threw ffl's a few times just to avoid the hassle.

Now that I have my ffl its pretty easy most places don't ask very many questions.

Oh ya and the above mentioned inner state and shipping to yourself are ok, although im not sure on the inner state for handguns think you still may have to go threw ffl your state may have separate laws as well.

Basically go to the gunbroker guide they seem to always have it updated and have it all spelled out. I also read the batfe website and the shippers website when I had problems before I had my ffl.

I actually brought a copy of the shippers manual in to ups I printed right from the ups website to show one clerk where he was wrong and I was right. But sounds like ups doesn't do it anymore so that sucks.
 

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Edit: this was in reply to BudgetSurvivalist

You don't have to be a dealer to ship a gun to a dealer, some shipping companies may have different rules but by the law you don't have to be I did it plenty of times before I got my ffl.

However it sometimes can be cheaper to go threw a friendly FFL because they can ship it usps and don't have to ship overnight shipping ether when shipping usps.

Your above situation is why its always best to talk to your dealer before you purchase so you know everything is going to work smooth, theirs so much hearsay and bs out there some dealers don't know what the law is or don't even want to deal with it. Some batfe agents even give wrong info. However if you look up the actual laws involved gunbrokers shipping faq has it all correct and I look at it from time to time myself just to remind myself how things work if I haven't shipped in a while.
I am a little mystified by the situation. I went to this dealer before I even made a bid on Gunbroker to check the transfer price and to make sure he was fine with just doing a transfer.(he is one of the recommended FFL dealers on Gunbroker)

After I won the auction, I went back to him and got an original of his FFL to mail to the seller, and again, he was fine with doing a transfer on a Gunbroker sale.

I go in to fill out my paperwork and to start the clock on the waiting period, and he's all soup-nazi about getting a copy of the FFL from the seller, and he says if the seller doesn't have one, he will ship the pistol back and file a report with the ATF, and the seller would be prosecuted.:confused:
 

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Shooter, Hiker, & Camper
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Actually, an individual can send a handgun himself. It just has to be received by a FFL dealer, who will charge something for the service (anything over about $30 is gouging), unless they're tight with the guy who's getting it or something. You can sell a gun online and ship it yourself to FFL on buyer's end.

You can also send a handgun yourself to any factory/repair facility which has FFL (essentially, all of them). They can also send that handgun directly back to you.

Must be sent overnight service with UPS or FedEx, signature required on receiving end. You must acknowledge to that carrier that it contains handgun, but no external marker designating it as such is to be put on it. Good idea to have the receiver's FFL number to show shipper, sometimes they ask for proof.

No ground service, no USPS.

I'm probably forgetting something, but that's pretty much it.

edit: yeah I forgot about the FFL document itself - seems the receiving FFL has to mail or email/fax you a form that has the gun info on it along with his FFL number and that has to be inside the package. I THINK this is correct, but I can't remember exactly about that detail, I'm sure others will chime in. At any rate, the guy on the other end can tell you what the FFL dealer requires and what he needs to send to you.

- OS
I use the USPS all of the time. My local Postmaster shoots at my club. I have had other post offices turn me down, however. Mainly they are just ignorant and don't know they can ship it.

On a seperate note, I always pay for a gun shipped from out of state using a US Postal Money Order. The reason why is that if the weapon is not sent, or fraud is commited, it is a Federal crime of mail fraud, and a Postal Inspector has arrest powers that can cross state lines.
 

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Gunsmith
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I am a little mystified by the situation. I went to this dealer before I even made a bid on Gunbroker to check the transfer price and to make sure he was fine with just doing a transfer.(he is one of the recommended FFL dealers on Gunbroker)

After I won the auction, I went back to him and got an original of his FFL to mail to the seller, and again, he was fine with doing a transfer on a Gunbroker sale.

I go in to fill out my paperwork and to start the clock on the waiting period, and he's all soup-nazi about getting a copy of the FFL from the seller, and he says if the seller doesn't have one, he will ship the pistol back and file a report with the ATF, and the seller would be prosecuted.:confused:
As you should be. cped from gunbroker but I'm sure its word for word from the ffl's bible.


Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped only to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL). The recipient must be have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

You can also look this stuff up on the atf website but its a hassle to get there search to give you what you wan't nm I went and found it they actualy have improved there site quite a bit since I was on there last now they have an easy to use faq section.

Here is a link bring it to your dealer and have him look threw this or print it out for him http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

Only way you may yet have a problem is if he shipped it usps without a license or your state has other laws that cover this which I doubt.
 

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Gunsmith
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I use the USPS all of the time. My local Postmaster shoots at my club. I have had other post offices turn me down, however. Mainly they are just ignorant and don't know they can ship it.

On a seperate note, I always pay for a gun shipped from out of state using a US Postal Money Order. The reason why is that if the weapon is not sent, or fraud is commited, it is a Federal crime of mail fraud, and a Postal Inspector has arrest powers that can cross state lines.
If you are shipping handguns via usps and you do not have a ffl license you are breaking federal law. Be careful read the laws and know them before you deal with this stuff these are not things to guess at.

It may be redundant but http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This is from the UPS website:

"UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package."

The way I read this UPS will accept firearm shipment from and between private parties if neither is prohibited from doing so. Am I interpreting this right?
 

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Shooter, Hiker, & Camper
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If you are shipping handguns via usps and you do not have a ffl license you are breaking federal law. Be careful read the laws and know them before you deal with this stuff these are not things to guess at.

It may be redundant but http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
Hmm, it looks like that was passed in 2006. I haven't used the USPS since then, so thanks for the heads up.

http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00922.html
 

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Gunsmith
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This is from the UPS website:

"UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package."

The way I read this UPS will accept firearm shipment from and between private parties if neither is prohibited from doing so. Am I interpreting this right?
Yes and no, sounds like they haven't changed there wording when I last used them and didn't have an ffl I brought that in to the store and they point out the.

""UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency"

What he tried to say was since I wasn't a dealer or law enforcment I couldent ship and that the "from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms" just meant that the dealer had to be able to ship legally. That's the time I ended up going threw an ffl because it had to get shipped that day.

I read it the same way as you but trying to get a ups clerk to look at it that way can be real fun.
 
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