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Eager To Learn aka Newb
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Howdy Gerntys.

I'm new to the board and i have done ALOT of reading of threads on the subject and i thought now it was time for me to jump in and start a discussion of my own and toss idea's around a bit. As i type this i am still waiting on my Foid card , i live in ILL . SO far its taken me 60 days come this monday and i will still not of recived it, would you think that is typical seeing how are new president is anti gun.I plan on calling the sport store tomorrow i applied for it at and find out if there is some number i could call to get my status. So yes that the first part of this post. Is this typical waiting time in a post obama election or has something gone wrong?i signed up on sept 17, seems like i should have it buy now.

The second part of this post i wanna know the best assult rifile i can get from 1000$ to 1500$ i was looking at the ar 15 - seems many modeks , even pistols , ive been looking at ak 47 as well . I want a gun that the parts would be easy to replace in case the **** hits the fan. Also i would like a common ammunition like 9 mm that i could use in a pistol and the assult type weapon. I do not know very much about firearms, but i plan to take a saftey course ,and train on our local range. I'm not real into guns, but i wanna make sure WTSHTF i am prepared. So take in mind as well i am a newbie - but i will have plenty of time to hone myskills , at least lets hope i do before anything bad happens..

I thank you gents in advance for taking the time out to explain the pro's and con's of particular weapons to a newbie - we all have to start sommeplace folds and i belive there is no better time then the present to learn and experince.

thanks in advance men

i would also like to mention i love to follow links lrgy in posts so i can have a look at what your talking about, if possible is all i ask.
 

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Glad your here first off. Couple quick things Is this gonna be your only weapon or just your self defense weapon? Guns are like wrenches one size doesn't fit all and a Crescent isn't always the best choice that being said, if you need survival and self defense I would spen my 1500 on a good .22 Like a Ruger 10/22 rifle not carbine there good for small game and will help you become very good with larger caliber guns. like your ak and ar and such. Also ammo is cheap to train with. The next thing I would purchase would be a 12 ga. for close in work and home defense there nothing like "00 buck" for detering the average criminal the Knockdown is tremendous and you can literally saturate a given area so aiming in panic mode is a little less critical.
In that weapon Mossberg and Remington are good moderately price weapons.
You should be able to get both those weapons New for under 1000 which leaves some for ammo and maybe a scope on the 10/22.
Remember a Gun with out bullets is just a club so having plenty of ammo is critical.......
 

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American fearmaker
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14,245 Posts
Rock River, Bushmaster, Stag Firearms and Superior Firearms all make really good AR-15s and M-4 type carbines and rifles. For a pistol I would go with a Glock 17. You can't beat a Glock for reliability and they hold 17 rounds in each magazine. Top it off and you have 18 rounds ready to go. Your AK type rifles are noted for dependability and they shoot the bigger, more effective 7.62 X 39. So depending on what you want to do, the ammo you want to use, there is a variety of options for you to consider and implement. I would go to a couple of local gun stores, talk to some employees/sales people and see what they suggest. One thing, I would, however, be very set on a good Glock 17 as my pistol of choice and I would avoid a Springfield XD pistol at all costs. Glocks are more reliable and have no "extra features" that could cause your pistol to malfunction.

As to the delay in getting your FOID card, it takes about 2 to 3 months now to get your card back from Springfield. They have two people who actually process all of the FOID card applications so they are slow. It will arrive in time, just be patient. Calling Springfield doesn't do anything for you. They are just slow down there.
 

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Combat marxism Now!
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While the 10/22 advice above is great, it does not answer the question of which gun. I like the AR-15 (better yet, the AR-10:) ) style guns. They are a classic American design, quite reliable and easy to customize.

My advice is to avoid the M4 flavor of the AR. It has a turned down section in the barrel for a grenade launcher. This section weakens the barrel a tiny bit and can in some cases, reduce accuracy. Another possible reason to avoid the M4 style is that the "feature" could be outlawed in the future. You will never have a grenade launcher mounted on this weapon, so why not just have a good high quality heavy bull barrel.

I like the 16.5 inch barrels, without flash hider (that way you get all the barrel length performance you can get) with your "adjustable" stock of choice. That way the gun is short enough to swing around inside a vehicle.

Equip it with an ACOG or Eotech and you are good to go.
 

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Certifiable
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So you are new to guns.

A .22 caliber rifle is a very good choice. The Ruger 10/22 rifle is highly recommended by most shooters, it uses magazines and is a fairly accurate carbine. I myself prefer the marlin model 60, it is a bit harder to load but I personally believe it is more accurate. You can buy Henry lever actions that will out shoot both of these weapons.

As for a shotgun, everyone needs one of these. The big two are Remington and Mossberg. I would suggest and 870, 500, or 590. An older WingMaster can be had used and is usually the best bargin, otherwise a new Express can suit your needs in the Remington department. The Mossberg 500 is a good all around gun at a good price. Finally the Mossberg 590 is a specialized shotgun designed for defense or fighting if you may. Look them over and decide which one you like the best. They will all outlast you if you take care of them.

As for a rifle I would recommend the AR, it is more accurate than the AK. People will tell you that it is not as robust but do you really plan on fighting in a combat situation where you are going to drag your weapon through the sand and mud and not have time to clean it. The with iron sights you can generate hits at 500 yards, ask any Marine. With an Eotech you can generate hits quickly and accurately, with glass you can generate hits with extreme accuracy.

Learn to shoot, clean and know these weapons. You may want to add more fire power like a .308 or a pistol later but will never be under armed.
 

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Rock River, Bushmaster, Stag Firearms and Superior Firearms all make really good AR-15s and M-4 type carbines and rifles. For a pistol I would go with a Glock 17. You can't beat a Glock for reliability and they hold 17 rounds in each magazine. Top it off and you have 18 rounds ready to go. Your AK type rifles are noted for dependability and they shoot the bigger, more effective 7.62 X 39. So depending on what you want to do, the ammo you want to use, there is a variety of options for you to consider and implement. I would go to a couple of local gun stores, talk to some employees/sales people and see what they suggest. One thing, I would, however, be very set on a good Glock 17 as my pistol of choice and I would avoid a Springfield XD pistol at all costs. Glocks are more reliable and have no "extra features" that could cause your pistol to malfunction.

As to the delay in getting your FOID card, it takes about 2 to 3 months now to get your card back from Springfield. They have two people who actually process all of the FOID card applications so they are slow. It will arrive in time, just be patient. Calling Springfield doesn't do anything for you. They are just slow down there.
I have to diasgree about the Springfield XD and apparently so do the majority of the shooting population in the US as it was voted as the handgun of the year in 2007. You can also safely shoot lead bullets out of an XD, something you dont dare do in a glock due to the risk of blocking the rifling and creating a blocked bore. The XD also has an additional passive safety ... a grip safety the glock does not, ant that also acts as a mnemonic device to help you ensure proper and repeated positioning of your hand on the grip allowing for greater accuracy when shooting. I also find that the XD has better ergonomics than Glock, giving it a better instinctive point, bringing the sights into faster alignment. They are also rated as the best in reliability, well above Glock, again by the same group of people rating it the best handgun in 2007. I have never had reliability issues with either glock or the XD, but have found the XD superior in hold and point, as well as in out of box trigger pull.
 

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Here's my safety Sir
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Anyone look at the price of AR lowers on Gunbroker.com the last day or so. Gone nuts.
 
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Just remember that the XD is impossible to get parts for without sending it back to the manufactuer. Glock parts are available anywhere. If TSHTF an XD user will be out of luck if it breaks.
 

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where are you guys at where the prices/availability is so jacked up? i'm in the lansing, mi area and am not seeing the "panic buying." the local stores are chock full 'o guns, "assault weapons" included. prices/availability haven't changed at ****'s or gander mountain, dunham's wasrs are like $25 more than they were a month ago. the only thing i am seeing is a reduced willingness to toss in extras. used to be able to get the dealer to throw in a box or two of ammo,sling,magazine, or bipod with a purchase, not the case lately. i bought a colt 1911 in feb and got 4 boxes of hydra-shoks. my friend bought a springfield m1a socom today and we couldn't even get a break on a box of .308.

as to the op, come to michigan. for $1500 we could have you kitted out with stuff i saw in stock today.

-colt/bushmaster ar15 @ $950 (30 round mags for $15-30)
-ruger 10/22 @ $199
-mossberg 500 @ $250
-federal .233 @ $39 (100 rnds)
-fed .22 @ $15 (550 rnds)
-fed 00 buck @ $4.50 (5 rnds)

even cheaper if you'd take an ak variant, use the leftover $600 for more mags, ammo, maybe a handgun (s&w sigma 9mm or 40sw for $350-400, and they still can't sell them).
 

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with your buget you could get a very nice m1a1 rifle that fires the 7.62x51 nato round, its a excellent rifle, covers the long and short range and can punch through cover like bock walls, you can get parts for it, and it takes 20 round mags or you can find 30 rd mags as well. they 5.56 nato is a ok round but there are problems with it being such a small round. as for a pistol you cant go wrong with a 1911 style pistol in .45 acp. they can be a little pricey but that are reliable, have a hard hitting round, and have tons of parts available.
 

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American fearmaker
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I have to diasgree about the Springfield XD and apparently so do the majority of the shooting population in the US as it was voted as the handgun of the year in 2007. You can also safely shoot lead bullets out of an XD, something you dont dare do in a glock due to the risk of blocking the rifling and creating a blocked bore. The XD also has an additional passive safety ... a grip safety the glock does not, ant that also acts as a mnemonic device to help you ensure proper and repeated positioning of your hand on the grip allowing for greater accuracy when shooting.

There have been 3 people who were shot with their own XD pistols in my area. One of them, a local officer, is contemplating a massive class action suit against Springfield Armory because it seems that there have been many, many more people shot with problematic Springfield XD pistols. That's also the reason why no major police agencies are switching from Glock to Springfield pistols...
 

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Information is Ammunition
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im calling BS here. defect or not- you still have 3 lamebrains aiming loaded weapons at people. negligence of the manufacturer does NOT excuse that.

DO NOT ever let the barrel cover anything you are not willing to destroy
Glock universally offers police a large discount for police officers. I think its something like 50% off. I'm not saying thats the only reason that Glocks are popular with cops, but it sure doesn't hurt. Even in large cities, LEOs are responsible for buying their own weapons.
 

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Eager To Learn aka Newb
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Discussion Starter #15
thanks guys i appreciate you taking the time to educate a newb. Of only recently started thinking about survulism and handgun , i mostly play with computers put thats all about to change.continue to debate on whats the best i could do with my 1500^ once my goid card shows up ! and thanks to the man who reasured me that ISP is backed up with two working , after 60 days i was getting worried my wife tossed it into the trash - she isnt on board this survivalism stuff - wait for the power to go out from an ice storm this winter though i bet she will come around real quick!
 

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25 Or 6 to 4
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Mosin Nagant 91model---125.00 with handpick fee.
Can of mosin ammo 440 rds----100.00

P-85 phantom in 9mm makarov---200.00 w extra 17rd mag
can of makarov-----125.00

Ak---if any left---650.00
2 can ammo-----450.00
10 mags ------125.00

Your a little short since you need pouches,slings and other supplies still.
 

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25 Or 6 to 4
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Goos luck on getting a lower from these guys. I called and left 3 messages over a four day period, over a week ago, and still have not heard back from them. They are either out of business, or just don't want it.
Give it time. No one out there is taking orders as they are 2 weeks backlogged and don't want to oversell their stock.
 

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Squawker
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One thing that no one has mentioned is that you would like an assault type rifle and handgun to shoot a common ammo. That's not going to happen. Yes, there are some carbines that will fire 9mm, .40, or even 45ACP. But they're not assault rifles. ARs and AKs will shoot either .223 (AR and some AK variants) or 7.62 X 39 (AK47). Then there's the M1 type, which will fire .308. Each has it's good and bad points, as you've seen. But, You're going to have to put up the money for 2 calibers. That said, as your colection grows, you may want to keep the future guns in the same calibers as those that you've started with, so that it doesn't get too crazy. Currently, I have in pistols 9mm and 45ACP to deal with, a 22lr, a couple of 12 gauge shot guns, and AR in .223, and my new Socom II in .308, so it looks like I'll be spending a lot on ammo in the near future.
 

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25 Or 6 to 4
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thanks guys i appreciate you taking the time to educate a newb. Of only recently started thinking about survulism and handgun , i mostly play with computers put thats all about to change.continue to debate on whats the best i could do with my 1500^ once my goid card shows up ! and thanks to the man who reasured me that ISP is backed up with two working , after 60 days i was getting worried my wife tossed it into the trash - she isnt on board this survivalism stuff - wait for the power to go out from an ice storm this winter though i bet she will come around real quick!
Oops, two strikes. You didn't say you were buying on credit. Keep it cheap with a cheap wasr10 or SKS and a 500 or 700 rd tin of ammo. Pay it off and go back to the well.

If the wife is not on board do not bring home an ak with a 40 rd mag sticking in it. Keep them put away and only let her see it without mags. Make sure she knows what you want to finance, and how much. Then go shooting a couple times and don't say much about it. Her curiosity will make her ask to go and you can work into it a little at a time.

One day she will be like my wife and question why her mag pouch only holds 4 and mine holds 5. Till then keep it on the down low and out of sight.
 
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