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Live Secret, Live Happy
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http://empty-cases.com/blog/the-scout-rifle-study/

I expect more blog entries on this from the author.
I was never sold on Cooper's original idea of mounting a long eye relief, low power scope forward of the magazine. Even at 1x power, these scopes have a limited field of view, and this slows down target acquisition. But I kept toying with the idea and one day I tried mounting a Bushnell holosight up forward on a carbine.

I decided that Cooper's idea of mounting the optics forwared on the scout rifle preceded the technology needed to pull this off. Instead of a 1x long eye relief scope, I believe a scout rifle should be fitted with a holo or reflex sight, and it need not be mounted forward.

The US military uses a reflex sight on the M4 carbine for the same reasons as Cooper suggested it (insert irony here). Retaining situation awareness, while engaging multiple moving targets, at close range. The military just had more money to develop the needed technology.

Btw, holographic weapon sight technology was developed for the heads up display (HUD) gun sights of the F-14 tomcat fighter.
The technology is over 40 yrs old and we have been repackaging it ever since.
 

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I was never sold on Cooper's original idea of mounting a long eye relief, low power scope forward of the magazine. Even at 1x power, these scopes have a limited field of view, and this slows down target acquisition. But I kept toying with the idea and one day I tried mounting a BL holosight up forward on a carbine.

I decided that Cooper's idea of mounting the optics forwared on the scout rifle preceded the technology needed to pull this off. Instead of a 1x long eye relief scope, I believe a scout rifle should be fitted with a holo or reflex sight.

The US military uses a reflex sight on the M4 carbine for the same reasons as Cooper suggested it (insert irony here). Retaining situation awarness while engaging multiple moving targets at close range. The military just had more money to develop the needed technology.

Btw, holographic weapon sight technology was developed for the gun sights of the F-14 tomcat fighter jet. The technology is over 40 yrs old and we have been repackaging it ever since.
You could also mount the red dot on an angle mount to one side of the scope.

I have considered this on mine, but I just haven't seen the need yet. With my 2-7x set on the low end, I can shoot with both eyes open easy enough. With the scope being forward mounted it doesn't seem to have THAT bad of an effect on field of view.

Once you get back down to the 1x range an argument could be made that just using iron sights might be another option.

The only advantage I see to having an optic is magnification.

What I do like a red dot for is the transition into dusk and then night. An illuminated reticle on a scope could provide a similar function.

I do think it is also a bit of a stretch to think that a primary function of a 'scout' type rifle is to 'Retaining situation awarness while engaging multiple moving targets at close range'. I think that might be pushing the limits of what the concept was designed for. Now a 'scout' doesn't HAVE to be a bolt action, but it is common. If you are having to cycle the bolt between shots maintaining a consistent sight picture is going to be challenging......not impossible...but challenging.
 

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I am of the belief that Cooper came up with the forward mount scope almost entirely due to the need for stripper clip loading clearance. And only then found there were some additional advantages. I personally feel these 'advantages' are not that important and prefer a receiver mounted scope, with angled or side access stripper clip loading, in a purpose built 'Scout' Rifle. Besides, I am left eye dominant right hand shooter, so can not shoot with both eyes open anyway, which negates many of those features.

What my ideal Scout rifle would be:

Custom ‘Scout’ Rifle: .350 Remington Magnum lever action rifle based on the combined features of the Savage 99, Browning BLR, & Johnson 1941 rifle, w/Integrally suppressed 20" barrel, off-set stripper clip and single round loading 10-round rotary magazine with cutoff, ghost ring peep sights, Leupold Mark 4 1-3x14 CQ-T QD scope on receiver on see-through mount w/ATN PS40-4 Night Vision front scope system, three point sling on push-button swivels, polymer Mannlicher fore stock w/attachment for custom 12" OKC-3S bayonet, polymer in-line butt stock w/internal recoil reducer and recoil reducing butt pad, 24-round tip out butt stock shell carrier w/20-rounds + 4 .380 ACP adapters

Just my opinion.
 

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I have a Ruger GSR that I set up with a scout scope. Just couldn't get used to it. Took the scope off and went back to open sights. Problem with the Ruger layout is that the rear scope base mount is the same as used to mount the rear sight. I need to get the full length rail and remount a standard scope.
 

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Hovercraft Pilot, Retired
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CQB-16 M14 Rifle

I decided that Cooper's idea of mounting the optics forwared on the scout rifle preceded the technology needed to pull this off. Instead of a 1x long eye relief scope, I believe a scout rifle should be fitted with a holo or reflex sight, and it need not be mounted forward.
I am of the belief that Cooper came up with the forward mount scope almost entirely due to the need for stripper clip loading clearance.
I like the concept best when a holo or reflex sight is used.

Mounting the sight forward on the M14 does free up the stripper clip guide for topping
off a magazine, and/or adding an M3 breech shield for when a sound suppressor is used.



Cooper's concept is not for everyone, but I shoot well with it, and I'm not a fan of bolt guns.

 

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The Scout is still a viable concept, especially in places where a person is limited by legislation or funds.

While a good semi auto can work, they seldom are as light or trim with the same power and accuracy levels.

My last pseudo-Scout was a Rem 660 .308 that I picked up off a local gunsmith.
While it hadono forward mount, it did have a Lyman 66 receiver sight as well as the scope and came in with a 4x Leupold mounted right at 6.5lb.

My little CAR15 barely makes that empty and bare, with a lot more bumps and protrusions.

The 660 was legal nationwide, unlike the CAR.

There is nothing wrong with a good bolt gun.
 

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Yes, but a bow is still a viable option where there are legal limits.

A lightweight AR 10 with a decent holo with scope or scope with reddot on the 45 is strictly a superior option.

Accuracy is equal for anything offhand.

Capacity and reload are superior.

Follow ups are faster.

Recoil is lower.

The scout rifle of Cooper is half outdated and half nostalgia that was outdated even in his day.
 

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IMHO,
if you can't use both eyes with a scope then you're handicapping yourself.
Doesn't matter if it's 1-4X or 6-24,
You should be able to see the crosshairs with one eye and your target with the other and then line them up.

Heresy?!?
That's the way I use a scope and have for years.
Again, it's my way and my opinion, learn how to use both eyes or be forever handicapped by your inability.
YMMV
 

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Yes, but a bow is still a viable option where there are legal limits.

A lightweight AR 10 with a decent holo with scope or scope with reddot on the 45 is strictly a superior option.

Accuracy is equal for anything offhand.

Capacity and reload are superior.

Follow ups are faster.

Recoil is lower.

The scout rifle of Cooper is half outdated and half nostalgia that was outdated even in his day.
Meh. A bolt action scout rifle has a LOT less moving parts and is FAR less picky with ammo. You can shoot anything from low round ball rabbit loads to 200+ grain stuff out of it without having to mess with anything. A suppressed bolt action is going to be quieter than a semi-automatic suppressed action. Less things to clean on a bolt. Etc. Etc.

Either is going to have their ups and downs.

I'm not saying one is better than the other....just saying they all have quirks that you can exploit.
 

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Meh. A bolt action scout rifle has a LOT less moving parts and is FAR less picky with ammo. You can shoot anything from low round ball rabbit loads to 200+ grain stuff out of it without having to mess with anything. A suppressed bolt action is going to be quieter than a semi-automatic suppressed action. Less things to clean on a bolt. Etc. Etc.
A well-built one shouldnt have any problems with ammo. Underpowered ammo means you just manually cycle, same as on a boltgun. You still get much faster firing and reloading when using full power ammo.

If your use may call for quiet, lots of good adjustable gas blocks out there that turn the noise as low as a boltgun.

Bolts still have the simplicity and ease of cleaning, but modern parts are reducing the incentives. Personally, I would just spend a couple extra minutes cleaning my autoloader during downtime, so I know if I need to lay down a couple mags quick, the option is there.

But, a nice wood boltgun generally looks alot better.
 

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Classical Musician
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Well, a semi auto might be a better combat weapon. What about shooting guns that you enjoy? I enjoy shooting a bolt action 10x more than a semi auto. That is why I'm saving my semi auto purchase for last.
 

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A well-built one shouldnt have any problems with ammo. Underpowered ammo means you just manually cycle, same as on a boltgun. You still get much faster firing and reloading when using full power ammo.

If your use may call for quiet, lots of good adjustable gas blocks out there that turn the noise as low as a boltgun.

Bolts still have the simplicity and ease of cleaning, but modern parts are reducing the incentives. Personally, I would just spend a couple extra minutes cleaning my autoloader during downtime, so I know if I need to lay down a couple mags quick, the option is there.

But, a nice wood boltgun generally looks alot better.
I'm honestly not THAT concerned about rate of fire anymore. I have those options,(ARs, AKs, etc lots of them), but I just can't bring myself to fall into that line of thinking anymore. If your fighting a WAR that might be something, but in a true 'survival' situation I think we tend to overemphasize that point. Ammunition is going to become scarce and very valuable the longer things stay sideways.

Reloading with most mag-fed scout rifles is going to be a wash. Also see the above point, expending that much ammunition THAT quickly is going to be a rare occurrence outside of a fully logistically supported war.

Moving parts isn't just about cleaning its about wear and redundancy. For a semi-auto to function you just need more parts. I have more than a few that are VERY reliable, but LLLLLLOOOOOONNNNGGGG term I think a simple bolt-action, such as the mauser based Ruger, is about as durable and reliable as you can get in a repeater.

Meh. I see a LOT of long term function in the simplicity of a bolt-action based 'scout' type rifle. I might not grab a bolt-action first....but I think in the long term a bolt is going to keep moving to the front of the list.
 

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I don't get the scout rifle concept. Seems outdated and pointless over modern options. If you want a light weight rifle get a Mini or an SKS. Both have superior fire power to the bolt gun
Meh. We all probably need a supressed SBR NFA full-auto mini-gun in 20mm too...

EVERY option is going to have their drawbacks. It is all a balance. Some people choose one way, some people choose the other, some choose both, some choose none.

In my opinion, outside of an organized logistically well supported war time environment with a defined front and people in uniforms 'firepower' is vastly overrated in these discussions.
 

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I just picked up a 1910 Mexican Mauser from a guy who had started to 'sporterize' it, basically, he cut the stock and quit there. I'm going to play around with it and make it scout rifle. Take the barrel down to 19-20", cut the stock and put in a good recoil pad and mount an optic. I'll probably start with a holo or red dot and decide if I want to power it up later. Figure at worst I can cheaply figure out if it has merit and can be a truck gun.
 
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