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Tankgirl
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Have been thinking with all that's going on in the world lately especially the Ebola threat and have been thinking do I have enough in my first aid kit? a couple of people have mentioned that they have saline IV bags in their kits and i'm thinking should I have them too? this is what I have in my First Aid kit any recommendations for anything else I should have in there?

\m/ Samantha \m/

1. large crepe bandage
2. 4 smaller bandages
3. various size and shape band aids
4. triangular bandage
5. alcohol wipes
6. Tagaderm dressings
7. Paracetemol
8. Ibruprofen
9. constipation relief tablets
10. diarrhoea tablets
11. manuka honey
12. electrolyte satchets
13. saline vials
14. thermometer
15. hydrocortisone cream
16. latex free condoms (have a latex allergy)
17. antihistamine tablets
18. latex free gloves
19. cotton buds
20. micropore surgical tape
21. savlon antiseptic cream
22. steri strips
23. suture kit
24. tea tree oil
25. lavender oil (best thing I have ever used for burns even better than any cream you can buy in a pharmacy)
26. a few tampons
27. dental repair kit
28. canasten (for lady problems)
29. gauze dressings
30. a months supply of my meds (this worries me as I am on fentanyl and morphine tablets, as well as a plethora of other meds, so if shtf im gonna have to battle some serious withdrawals but In Uk can only get 1 months supply of meds at a time).
31. FFP3 face masks (Uk equivalent to N95/N100)
 

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Urban Mountain Man
Joined
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1,159 Posts
Watched an excellent training aid called "Ditch Medicine" by a person
who does ambulance work in a rural area. Very informative and entertaining as well. Good production value , I mean. :)


Ditch Medicine, The Video Series: Volume 1: Emergency Intravenous Therapy

Hugh Coffee (Actor) | Format: DVD

There is a print version, probably a better buy if you have IV training and do not need to see
it demo'ed
 

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Urban Mountain Man
Joined
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1,159 Posts
It is for volume replacement. There are other volume expanders less likely to leave the circulatory system, but
saline will work if that is what you have. Prevents complete cardiovascular collapse. Yes, it would require access to such things and professional training. You are certainly correct.

Once a patient is stabilized and shock is the issue, keeping the kidneys going is a real concern.
The body shuts them down trying to save the brain and heart. If they stop, they may not restart.

But I would think absent an MD and hospital, buying time until you can get such care-like in an ambulance.
(I worked as an EMT while going thru pharmacy school to make money
at night job. )

Many will simply bleed out or die from an infection anyway. It will be gruesome.

Attended an excellent lecture by a MD doing a Civil War re-enactment of a field hospital. Fascinating stuff
like haylofts being used as a surgery to have a sluice like floor. Well, many probably can fill
in more detail.

Any EMT-P's out there?
 

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Tankgirl
Joined
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I have electrolytes in my kit so far. I only have very very limited experience when it comes to IV through my mum's nurses explaining it to me when she was ill (my mum was also a nurse and dad was a nurse then became a paramedic. sadly they're both no longer with me to impart their sage advice) I would only ever use in dire straits emergency and ill certainly do a lot more research. no point making a situation worse by being over confident, but like I say that would be in a "no other option SHTF they're gonna die anyway, so you might as well try kind off situation. but would be happy administering sub cutaneous fluids as I have first hand experience when changing my mums sub-cut pump, but need to find out what the measurements would be for sub-cut saline for fluid replacement therapy.

also I have seen silver mentioned by a few people and am still baffled by what it actually is so any help with that would be appreciated too!
 

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Urban Mountain Man
Joined
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1,159 Posts
I'm about half-way thru this book-- I see you have included honey. Kinda a bit of
a slog to read, but a really eye-opening look at new things that came from old
practices. So, far I have gained a good look at wound care for my 5 hours, but
it is a bit , well, dry. : I give it a 4 star rating so far, others seem to think so too.

Honey, Mud, Maggots, and Other Medical Marvels: The Science Behind Folk Remedies and Old Wives' Tales

Written by: Robert S. Root-Bernstein, Michèle M. Root-Bernstein
Narrated by: Nelson Runger
Length: 11 hrs and 55 mins

Format: Unabridged
More ▼
4.30 (3 ratings)

I would think anyone who has taken care of children or parent has a pretty good grasp of
what to do. The study of folk medicine has been worth the boring parts, like clay eating.
Who knows, millions do and the reasons are in the book.
 

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Tankgirl
Joined
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Watched an excellent training aid called "Ditch Medicine" by a person
who does ambulance work in a rural area. Very informative and entertaining as well. Good production value , I mean. :)


Ditch Medicine, The Video Series: Volume 1: Emergency Intravenous Therapy

Hugh Coffee (Actor) | Format: DVD

There is a print version, probably a better buy if you have IV training and do not need to see
it demo'ed
have just had a search around for this and have found a few free downloads. will post the address if they all check out and my computer doesn't die of cyber ebola lol :eek:
 

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Urban Mountain Man
Joined
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1,159 Posts
OOOPs, DVD is from Amazon. The book from Audible. Sorry.:)

I'm not savvy enough to know about download sites. Anyone know which are safe?
 

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Urban Mountain Man
Joined
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1,159 Posts
Silver is colloidal silver. Made by electrolysis. Kits available. Expensive
as a prepared product in stores. Cheap to make. Good internally and
externally, but a few things to know. Anyone care to do a post?
I can, but it will take a few minutes to give the necessary details of
manufacture and use.

Simple, kits available. Just 2 9v batteries, 2 .99 silver wires and distilled water.
Must be distilled or dangerous concentrations of silver ions will result.
Concentration is approximated by simply timing the reaction.
 

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Tankgirl
Joined
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I'm about half-way thru this book-- I see you have included honey. Kinda a bit of
a slog to read, but a really eye-opening look at new things that came from old
practices. So, far I have gained a good look at wound care for my 5 hours, but
it is a bit , well, dry. : I give it a 4 star rating so far, others seem to think so too.

Honey, Mud, Maggots, and Other Medical Marvels: The Science Behind Folk Remedies and Old Wives' Tales

Written by: Robert S. Root-Bernstein, Michèle M. Root-Bernstein
Narrated by: Nelson Runger
Length: 11 hrs and 55 mins

Format: Unabridged
More ▼
4.30 (3 ratings)

I would think anyone who has taken care of children or parent has a pretty good grasp of
what to do. The study of folk medicine has been worth the boring parts, like clay eating.
Who knows, millions do and the reasons are in the book.
I have had a fair bit of first aid training through the army cadet force but I've probably learnt more via mum and also myself as I have health problems myself and a lot of the time I end up correcting the nurses and even occasionally the doctors when im in hospital or being treated. (they must hate me LOL) I definitely like to learn about more natural remedies and procedures that modern medicine sticks their nose up at (although it seems to be catching on in "regular" medicine more and more these days) I often go by the "if it doesn't have more than one use than it's not going in my kit" philosophy (unless absolutely necessary)and honey is just one of those that have so many uses that I couldn't go without it. it's fantastic for wound management. after thoroughly cleaning a wound apply a layer of manuka honey and cover with a dressing. it works better than any over the counter remedy and you get so much more out of it.
 

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Urban Mountain Man
Joined
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1,159 Posts
That's just what the book says!- and gives the science to prove it~

I would think you well able to tend to people having that much
experience. But, I enjoy being on the medical side of recovery
from events. So, I read a great deal because I like the subject.
 

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Tankgirl
Joined
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Silver is colloidal silver. Made by electrolysis. Kits available. Expensive
as a prepared product in stores. Cheap to make. Good internally and
externally, but a few things to know. Anyone care to do a post?
I can, but it will take a few minutes to give the necessary details of
manufacture and use.

Simple, kits available. Just 2 9v batteries, 2 .99 silver wires and distilled water.
Must be distilled or dangerous concentrations of silver ions will result.
Concentration is approximated by simply timing the reaction.
would really appreciate the explanation but take your time i'll keep checking back here. is ionic silver the same as when I searched ebay.co.uk only ionic silver came up, is this the same thing?

I don't have a clue about downloads etc either so just recruited my other half to have a look for me. need help with hunting, starting fires, building shelters, gutting and preparing an animal i'm the one you want but anything to do with technology that doesn't involve bullets and I have to aske the hubby haha. sometimes I think my relationship is a bit backwards. i'm the prepper in this household. he spends his money on xbox games and I spend my money on twice the amount of kit because I couldn't just prepare just for myself, no matter how much his snoring makes me homicidal lol :D:
 

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Urban Mountain Man
Joined
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1,159 Posts
I'm sorry, I just do not know.

Hard to explain prepping, perhaps you can drag him in here?
We'll get him fired up for you. :)
 

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Tankgirl
Joined
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
trust me I've tried when it comes to anything I say to do with survival it's usually met with an "oh not that again" sigh. the only progress I've made with him is getting into a habit of buying just a few things extra every time he does the shopping (yeh he does that too, we really are a backwards couple) to add to the store and saving and sanitising our milk bottles to fill with water. these past few days I've been driving him mad about washing his hands properly lol. I think most men would be emasculated but he seems content enough to let me do it. he is occasionally thoughtful though and every birthday he buys me a new knife lol
 

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
Joined
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8,248 Posts
OP-if you or anybody in your group does not have the training to perform intravenous access and management, you will do more harm than good. A .09% saline (normal saline) can be used for volume expansion in the hypovolemic patient and most IV meds can be pushed through it. There are others things out there like Ringers Lactate with are better for electrolyte replacement or D5W (5% dextrose in water) for when you do not want to give a lot of fluids. Some fluids like saline remain in the interstitial space whereas others are intracellular.

However, if you are administering fluids to a child, you can easily overload them with fluid and in essence, drown them (fluid backs up into the lungs). Ditto for someone with active pulmonary edema or CHF. There are specialized items such a buterol devices that are used with pediatrics and formulas to use for cc/hr for adults (volume = rate x time divide by the amount to be infused).

You need to decide if you will have 10gtt, 15gtt or 60gtt set for your IV tubing and will need to keep a range of IV catheters from 24 ga butterflies (very small) to 14 ga (very large). Twin caths are fun too. The minimum size cath blood can be given through is a 20 ga.

Another thing to consider when you are using fluids for volume expansion is that no IV fluid in widespread use will carry oxygen to the cells. This is critical. For massive blood loss, the victim must receive pack cells (red blood cells) or regardless of the amount of IV fluid you give, they will die.

(EmtP for over 2 decades)
 

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Registered
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726 Posts
Been a long time since my EMT-P expired but listen to the above post.

To sum it up, if its an emergency and you need an IV you need professional help now and it is likely to not help if not outright hurt trying to do some IV therapy.

If it is blood loss you should look at trauma tourniquets and their uses. It will take a fatal GSW and give several hours to reach some real help.
 

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Registered
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2,523 Posts
If you know how to start an IV that would be great. However, saline IV bags can be used to clean out a wound or eye irrigation. In fact, I was driving on the interstate one time and witnessed a roll over wreck directly in front of me. The SUV rolled one time and ended upright again. I felt obligated to stop and help. :rolleyes: Anyway, the vehicle ended up in the media in a big mud puddle. The driver appeared to be uninjured, but the lady in the passenger side appeared in pretty bad shape with altered level of consciousness and looked like an open tibia-fibula fracture. The poor lady had mud all over her. There were two guys who responded first and was able to bend the passenger door back so responders could get to her. All of us got really muddy trying to help these people. Another guy who stopped, if I remember correctly was a paramedic or EMT. He took out a bag of saline IV fluid and clipped the end off with scissors and was able to clean that nasty leg wound so we could put a dressing on it. Eventually EMS arrived, but they were reluctant to get in the mud so I said: "Come on in with the rest of us." So yeah, I would say there are definitely some uses for IV saline bags in a medical kit.
 

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Beer Truck Door Gunner
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30,679 Posts
Anything that is designed for intravenous use pretty much requires either a script or UPIN or invoice from a certified health institution.

Technically an IV saline bag is just salt water and plastic and therefore not a controlled item, but supply houses refuse to open themselves to liability.

So your average person cannot just order saline IV bags without a lot of hunting and subterfuge. There are many different forms of saline and other basic volume expanders as well. Hypertonic, isotonic, hypotonic, saline/dextrose combos, ringers solution, etc. You need to have some working knowledge of their use before trying to administer them. Done wrong you can blow out or collapse a vein. The wrong tonicity can be very deadly if you don't know the state of fluid imbalance. This really is not a job for people without training and the companies that sell this gear refuse to sell to those who cannot prove they have the skill. They won't risk a huge lawsuit for a few bucks. If you kill someone doing this the sellers know they are the ones with the deep pockets the lawyers will go after. So they will stonewall you if you cannot prove you are legit healthcare provider.

Worse is they don't have a very long shelf life. True, it's just saline water but the bag itself is gas permeable and will allow atmosphere to corrupt the sterile interior over time. You will find that you will spend a lot of time and effort, plus a fair bit of luck, getting fresh IV saline only to have to repeat the process about 2 years from now.

Your best bet as a skilled layman is oral electrolyte therapy. There is little chance of you making things worse by these efforts even if it is not as effective as skilled IV therapy.

There are other brands on the market but my personal favorite is Drip Drop ORS. It's not cheap but is one of the few brands inside the US to meet the updated WHO standards, most unfortunately still using the old standard. It's real medicine, not some hack on gatorade.
 

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There might be a chance you could obtain IV saline (0.9% Sodium Chloride) for veterinary use, let's say for a dog, horse, or cat. That would be an option to check into if you wanted to go that route. Just sayin'...

As someone already said, you have to look at expiration dates. But even if the saline was expired, personally I would still use it on a wound. And I suspect, that is what the paramedic was using at the wreck I saw, expired IV fluids that nobody wanted to throw away.
 

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Beer Truck Door Gunner
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30,679 Posts
There might be a chance you could obtain IV saline (0.9% Sodium Chloride) for veterinary use, let's say for a dog, horse, or cat. That would be an option to check into if you wanted to go that route. Just sayin'...
True, but I think you will find that vet suppliers are getting a lot tighter these days for the same reasons the med suppliers are, namely litigation threats. Lots of things we use to get easy from vet suppliers are becoming very hard to buy now. This restriction will only increase over time.

As someone already said, you have to look at expiration dates. But even if the saline was expired, personally I would still use it on a wound. And I suspect, that is what the paramedic was using at the wreck I saw, expired IV fluids that nobody wanted to throw away.
Sterile Water for Irrigation. It is a product a little easier to get and perfect for wound irrigation because that's what it is made for.

Also, you can buy saline nasal spray in cans that are sterile for the first use. You can direct the low pressure spray too, which would be handy for wound cleaning.



Eye wash is common to find and that is sterile too.

Finally, you can find basic wound wash sprays at your drug store too that are really just buffered sterile water under pressure.

If the goal is a sterile wound wash you have a lot of options out there. No need to hang your hopes on trying to get IV bags which can be difficult to get. Not to mention that a knife slit IV bag isn't the easiest thing to wash a wound carefully with.
 
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