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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am going to be buying a "tactical defense" sort of rifle pretty soon. I am considering a M4 style rifle and an AK47 as well, and I got to thinking about Saiga. I hear nothing but good things about them but it is almost always about the shotgun versions. Anyone have any opinions on the rifle versions?
They have them in .223, .308, and 7.63x39.
 

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They are good guns... but If you are gonna convert it to use AK mags you need to add a bullet guide... and the conversion is not 'quite' as easy as you may think (Be sure to stay on top of compliance parts)

Will At Red Jacket firearms has come up with a adaption so the .223 SAIGA will use AR mags (And P mags are AWESOME)

(I was there to see this)


Check ont he saiga forums and www.warriortalk.com
 

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I haven't own one but they are really nice when you see the fit and finish on them. Any AK is good. I looked at the .308 Saiga and found that you can't use regular furniture on it. It takes a special stock due to trigger set back. Pull seemed really long to me. Try one on for feel first. I could not get used to the trigger placement. They are great guns. Price seemed high as well. Go for the 7.62 x 39 buy lots of ammo. AMmo may be hard to get after the election. Nice to see your thread. take care GB.
 

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Saiga,

Plinker? Yes

Personal defense? No

Why? its made in Russia but it aint a Russian AK, not the ones Russia is famous for. Too many crappy ones to be trusted 100%

If you really want a "tactical" style rifle there are basically two, theirs and ours.

Now we are back to a thread about AK VS. AR :) :)

Personally I think that one of each is a much better choice. Here is why.....

The AR can reach out much further, it may have less power, but it hits at 500. It is a long range battle platform that is reliable enough at those distances.

The AK cant hit a house at 500 but at 100 and under it hits like superman.


Inside of 100 you want brute force and stopping power, outside of 100 accuracy reigns supreme, even a .224 at 500 will slow them down or taken them out of the fight. Stopping is what you need, death to the enemy is just a bonus.......


Two of them is the recommendation, HECK here is the answer buy the AR and save for a Saiga. It (the Saiga) would make a reliable enough 100 yard gun when backed up by an AR


I'm lost and now I need to reconsider why I have one of each :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Saiga,

Plinker? Yes

Personal defense? No

Why? its made in Russia but it aint a Russian AK, not the ones Russia is famous for. Too many crappy ones to be trusted 100%

If you really want a "tactical" style rifle there are basically two, theirs and ours.

Now we are back to a thread about AK VS. AR :) :)

Personally I think that one of each is a much better choice. Here is why.....

The AR can reach out much further, it may have less power, but it hits at 500. It is a long range battle platform that is reliable enough at those distances.

The AK cant hit a house at 500 but at 100 and under it hits like superman.


Inside of 100 you want brute force and stopping power, outside of 100 accuracy reigns supreme, even a .224 at 500 will slow them down or taken them out of the fight. Stopping is what you need, death to the enemy is just a bonus.......


Two of them is the recommendation, HECK here is the answer buy the AR and save for a Saiga. It (the Saiga) would make a reliable enough 100 yard gun when backed up by an AR


I'm lost and now I need to reconsider why I have one of each :)
I like how you think, just not sure if my wallet does. :)
 

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They are a true AK made by the same people that make the Russian AK47,However,they have been sporterized with a different stock configuration. They also take different magazines. They can be converted back to true AK specs. W/aftermarket parts.If you are looking to hit the side of a small barn farther than 300 yrds, Look at something besides an AK. If you want something that goes bang every time you pull the trigger(assuming ammo)the AK is your platform.

If you want the .5.56,go with the longer barrel version so there will be adequate projectile energy to upset,otherwise the bullet just pencils through.
 

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Saiga,

Plinker? Yes

Personal defense? No

Why? its made in Russia but it aint a Russian AK, not the ones Russia is famous for. Too many crappy ones to be trusted 100%

If you really want a "tactical" style rifle there are basically two, theirs and ours.

Now we are back to a thread about AK VS. AR :) :)

Personally I think that one of each is a much better choice. Here is why.....

The AR can reach out much further, it may have less power, but it hits at 500. It is a long range battle platform that is reliable enough at those distances.

The AK cant hit a house at 500 but at 100 and under it hits like superman.


Inside of 100 you want brute force and stopping power, outside of 100 accuracy reigns supreme, even a .224 at 500 will slow them down or taken them out of the fight. Stopping is what you need, death to the enemy is just a bonus.......


Two of them is the recommendation, HECK here is the answer buy the AR and save for a Saiga. It (the Saiga) would make a reliable enough 100 yard gun when backed up by an AR


I'm lost and now I need to reconsider why I have one of each :)
WTF are you TALKING about dude?

You knwo how some Saigas have the dimples in them?
THat's cause the recievers are made in the SAME FACTORY as the Military AK's, and if a run is short a few they go grab some off the military production lines...

Saigas ARE RUSSIAN AK's that have been PC'd... Go see what Jim Fuller at www.Rifledynamics.com does making them BACK into 'Real Ak configuration'

Won't hit a house at 500 hua?
Go on over to Warriortalk and look at some of the shootign out to 500 (Heck, Even me (Not the world's greatest shot) can keep them in the chest with my 'Low Dollar WASR' at 300 all day long...

I don't know W(here)TF you get your 100 yard figure from.

Oh, and FYI... there's ALOT more options for 'tactical rifles'...

Here's a few of them:
M1
M1A (M14 semi)
FAL
CETME/PTR91 (HK pattern rifles)
AUG (IF we're looking at the .223)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How does FAL stack up?

I really know very little about them, I been doing a bit of reading on them and they certainly look like some serious business.

I would imagine they are fine for up to 100 yards, how do they do at greater distances?

What are the pros and cons for them?
 

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Yep I should have known an armchair would attack me, its ok I know what I know because I do in the real. Live in your fantasy world of internet rumors and misinformation. I live in the real, and the Saiga aint it.
Interesting... I give you links and ways to check stuff and you call me an 'Armchair' (Based on what?

So please, share with me... how do you knwo all this?
I know what I know because I do in the real.


How does FAL stack up?

I really know very little about them, I been doing a bit of reading on them and they certainly look like some serious business.

I would imagine they are fine for up to 100 yards, how do they do at greater distances?

What are the pros and cons for them?
FAL's a good gun. I prefer the M1A a little more, but for a MBR it's hard to beat.
(FAL files etc...)

Like I've said before, Read Boston's gun bible... It's worth buying...

FAL will do MUCH further than 100... as I said... The Corps shoots M16's out to 500... .308 is more of a distance round than that...

Only things I don't like about the FAL is the Egernomics (I'm right handed, but due to beign left eyed shoot rifles left) and the Sites. (BUt DSA makes a solution for that... or you could put a scope/red dot on it.)

The FAL is so reliable that some call it (Excuse me if I butcher the exact words) "THe AK of the free world"
 

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This is all you gave me to "research"

"We build custom rifles for professional warriors and civilians alike. In the dangerous world we live in every warrior be it military, law enforcement or civilian should have access to the most reliable and functional weapons systems available.

Whether you're defending your home, your country or foreign dignitaries/convoys in another country you need a weapon system that is reliable and effective for the job . . . THAT IS OUR MAIN FOCUS.

I have worked with professionals from as many different aspects of the warrior community as possible to figure out what are the most important features needed in a rifle. I'm not a gunsmith, I'm a warrior who builds and modifies guns to get the job done. I'm not in the business of selling you parts and services you don't need.

At Rifle Dynamics we want to equip you with the best tool you can get for the job. We do not build production guns, each gun is built to the specs of the intended user and no sacrifice in quality will be accepted."
And using another forum to try and prove a point is like using play doh to build the Taj Mahal.

Seriously it is not a matter of opinion but facts. research them yourself and learn that a 1947 AK has nothing in common with your beloved saiga, regardless of the country of manufacture.

And yes I am fully aware there are other used weapons in the "tactical" package. How many millions of Ak and Ar rifles are worldwide? They are the two most used systems in any world free or not.

My credentials?

US Army, 14J

16 years in the fields of N/A (North America)
3 in "other" countries
4 years approved DOD on the AK
2 years private sector in security
2 years swat qualifications
2 years as unit designation armorer
2 years as independent product tester in related field
I can go on if needed?
 

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This is all you gave me to "research"

-I'm saying go LOOK at some of the Saiga's he has converted back to 'UnPC Ak configuration"... HECK... go look at what Trimex (I KNOW I misspelled that one) and others are doign...


And using another forum to try and prove a point is like using play doh to build the Taj Mahal.

Not exactly forum... Shooting school with forum attached to it...
Seriously it is not a matter of opinion but facts. research them yourself and learn that a 1947 AK has nothing in common with your beloved saiga, regardless of the country of manufacture.
Now the 1947 AKM is an ENTIRELY different anamla than the AK's of today.
For instance, the reciever was milled... it for deckades has been stamped. the original 1947 AKM didn't even have a capacity for a flash hider, as well as having some cosmetic differences such as aroudn the Gas Block.

What does that haveot do with the AK's of today?


And yes I am fully aware there are other used weapons in the "tactical" package. How many millions of Ak and Ar rifles are worldwide? They are the two most used systems in any world free or not.

Given the proliferation of the FAL... I don't see how it could be excluded....

My credentials?

US Army, 14J

16 years in the fields of N/A (North America)
3 in "other" countries
4 years approved DOD on the AK
2 years private sector in security
2 years swat qualifications
2 years as unit designation armorer
2 years as independent product tester in related field
I can go on if needed?
That's not what I asked... What's that got to do with SAIGAS?
 

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Dude... Why the arguement...

Just look at the pretty pictures:

http://www.rifledynamics.com/services.html

Oh, here's a statement at the link I gave you!!!!
We offer several different versions of Saiga Conversions from just a pistol grip/buttstock conversion to a full on conversion back to AK spec. This is the only way to have a real Russian AK.

We do conversions on 7.62x39, .308 rifles and Saiga 12 shotguns, prices very depending on the level of conversion. There are also legal Saiga conversions for our California friends.
http://www.redstick-firearms.com/
..They make a few...


http://www.tromix.com/saiga-rifles.htm
...Kinda well known there...
 

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saiga 308 most commonly have a moa of about 2"@100yds but if you spend the time and buy several diff. brands of ammo you can find a brand/weight that your weapon likes and get it shooting inside a 1" square at 100 yds. the trigger pull is a little odd because it is made to be use with the monte carlo stock. it pulls back and up instead of straight back like most weapons. but it works just fine it is just something you got to get use to really its not that big of a deal. if you get the stock 22" barrel it has just a little more kick than an AK which is nothing you could easly shoot several 100 rounds a day no problem, but if you get a 16" and lighten up the weapon by replaceing the stock (and/or convert it) it will kick like a mule.the weight really makes a differance. it is a basic ruff and tuff weapon low maintance and will shoot everytime you need it to if you like AK's your love a saiga 308 :)
 

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I got a Romanian AK for Christmas and it is a darn solid Rifle. Got 4 mags for it that work great ,dont think I would dig plastic mags.
 

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I have the 7.62 version. Love it, very nice solid rifle. You can get the Sure Fire magazines without having to install the bullet guide and they come with a built in bolt hold open feature. They are a bit pricey, but are nice quality and no wobble at all when loaded. Very solid rifle for around $300 and true russian manufacture.
 

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Here is my Saiga 7.62x39. 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. I can probably hit a man at 500 yards, but my 7mm Rem Mag is a better tool for it. That AR might be able to hit a man at 500 yards, but will it hurt him? Depending on the barrel, the velocity may not be there.

In addition, ammo is cheaper.

 

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me with my .223 (it has an airsoft copy of a 7.62 in it cause my promags were all full and i was too lazy to empty one for the pic)

I've gotten 2 inch groups at 100 yards on a calm sunny day. The .223 I think is more accurate all around that the 7.62, but thats just from my own experience with other S-108 owners. I dont really have any hard data there- but I'll take that accuracy any day of the week.
 

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me with my .223 (it has an airsoft copy of a 7.62 in it cause my promags were all full and i was too lazy to empty one for the pic)

I've gotten 2 inch groups at 100 yards on a calm sunny day. The .223 I think is more accurate all around that the 7.62, but thats just from my own experience with other S-108 owners. I dont really have any hard data there- but I'll take that accuracy any day of the week.
its easier to control a smaller bullet. so it should be more accurate. you might try and test differnt ammo you just might cut your shot grp in 1/2 :thumb:
 

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Here is my Saiga 7.62x39. 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. I can probably hit a man at 500 yards, but my 7mm Rem Mag is a better tool for it. That AR might be able to hit a man at 500 yards, but will it hurt him? Depending on the barrel, the velocity may not be there.

In addition, ammo is cheaper.

Wow...That Saiga turned into a full blown AK-47. Awesome.
 
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