Well, let me first start off with a thank you for the specific invitation to comment. I will add the usual, and boring by now, caveat that I cannot, without putting you in harm's way, give you specific investment advice. My aim is education and enlightenment so that people are empowered to make their own decisions.

That being said, I agree with David R. that a diversified portfolio is the way to go. Now, I have heard the argument that diversification is the enemy of outperformance but that is just fodder coming from the mouths of wanna-be Wall Street cowboys that cry to mama when the world ends. We all know what diversification means from a 30,000 foot view, and that is more than sufficient for this conversation/topic in my opinion.

The real added value will come from redefining "portfolio" meaning, what should we, as citizens of this great nation be including as "investments" which make up said "portfolio". Usually people think of stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc when thinking of "portfolio". But I want to push the mold over on that one.

It is my contention (as many of you know) that traditional thinking is junk. We are in a whole new world and must base our investment decisions as such. When the collapse of the entire global financial system is on the table as an outcome (or one could make the argument, the probability has drastically increased) we must position our "investments" accordingly for this brave world.

I will admit though sandcrab, you make some serious assumptions/outlooks regarding potential moves by the President which, if taken, would mean the entire deck has been reshuffled and we are faced with a new dealer.... in other words, you are talking about a major game changer.... but hey, some argue we were minutes away from those types of actions just a short while ago so that, again, is all on the table.

That will be the direction of my following post when I return from Church dinner.

 

Usually people think of stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc when thinking of "portfolio". But I want to push the mold over on that one.

That felt so good to see in print.

The problem with all of these investments is that they're almost entirely dollar denomenated. It is maddening to hear investment advisors describe diversification as a broad array of US stocks with a small percentage in securities. And this even after a market crisis followed by a sovereign debt crisis and a weak dollar. Can we really be naive enough to not recognize how fundamentally unstable these asset classes can be? It is mind-boggling that other major asset classes (such as; metals, raw land, and even foreign stocks and currencies) still seem to be secondary to US stocks and securities.

Whatever you choose to diversify into, I believe you'll have to consider other aspects of diversification as well. For instance, should a small part of your portfolio be federally insured? I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN THE FDIC, but insurence is a consideration that we all have to keep in mind. Additionally, can your investments weather a wholesale national economic collapse? If not, you may be investing in too narrow a market. You may also want to consider whether or not your investments can keep pace with real inflation. The BLS projects an inflation rate of 2.3% for the past year, but many real economists are calculating it at 6 to 10%. This means that your investments will have to make the same in interest just to break even.

 

If You have any property besides where your house is,bury it until we get a new government in after obama. There is no 100% safe place to put your money right now. There is even talk of them taxing what are now tax free muni's. As long as the progressives (socialists) are in power they will be busy making sure the wealth is spread. And if Puerto Rico comes in as a state ,their new progressive party that they formed a year or so ago will vote along with the progressives in office now, and we will be so out numbered ift will be hard to get a conservative government back in again

 

Israeli oil.

 

Zion Oil...have some

 

Personally I doubt the safety of any financial entity. Cash in the septic tank would be useless too when the dollar has no value. Gold can be federalized again & taken from you, or made so difficult to trade that the point is moot.
I'll just keep on sinking money into sustainable preps, even if the world holds together it'll make my life so much easier in the long run.

 

Gold can be federalized again & taken from you, or made so difficult to trade that the point is moot.

I understand your point, but it won't be taken from me.

 

Safe is relative. There is no such thing as 100% safety. I'd say precious metals are the most safe over long periods in *preserving* wealth, but they suck at *growing* wealth. And there is nothing to say that once you put your money in ANY investment, that it won't tank the next day. Life is risk, just pick pick your poison.

 

Greek bonds for me.................

 

I have my taxable investments split three ways, Farm Land, PMs, and I Bonds. I don't know if this the right division, or the safest investments. I wanted to preserve my capital for 4-5 yrs until I use it to build a house on the farm land.

 

Precious metals.......brass and lead. = )

 

So much depends on your location, in city or country.

so much depends on your finicial situation and how much money you be talking about.

I have my small savings spread around, gold, silver, lead, alum, iron / steel.

I have five acres near town and I have it full of scrape iron and stuff I pick up at farm sales, etc.

any thing that is used daily
anything that will hold its value (within reason)
anyting that you know there is and will always be a market far.

I can see that old timey seeds could be a way to store your money.

Spread it around, hide it in plain site or put it in a bank.

I know a lot of my friends but their money in guns. I think the gov will take the guns before they do gold, so I do not put a lot of money in guns or ammo.

Storing money is a personal thing, think outside the box, but remember what you value the next guy not value. So need of others is very important.

later
wayne

 

I agree with the metals as a good option. While the risk of another confiscation is certainly a possibility, it would be a very egregious move against citizens and I just don't see that happening given the level of public angst and distrust of our leadership at this point. The biggest advantage of metals is you can maintain control of your asset (meaning you can hold them, safeguard them and wait, while being reasonably sure they will maintain some intrinsic value). If the economy fully recovers and the value of metals falls, you can liquidate your position (though it will mean selling at a discount to spot).

You can buy metals locally through coin shops with complete anonymity (no paper trail). Anyone who takes your cash for coins and wants your name and address is not your friend. My sincere advise would be to learn about the metals, establish a relationship with a local dealer that will sell to you without a paper trail, and tell no one of your decision, NO ONE. Secure them in several safe places and forget that you have them.

One final thought. Coins that survived the last confiscation are now legal again and they are in most cases very, very valuable. Much more than their spot price for weight. If you can get them, you pay an absolute premium. There is value beyond that of the metals intrinsic value...

Good luck to all and God Bless.

 

A safe filled with gold under your log cabin

 

I say put it in nickels. The metal content is worth the face value currently. If it goes up you win, if it goes down you can cash them out at face value anytime you want.

 

In seeds........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjTP_Fco-oY

 

my plan is to roll a good portion of my investments from IRA's etc. over to gold and silver coins. any advice ? either good or bad would be greatly appreciated.

 

If the masses are doing it, do the opposite. Over time, that contrarian move has shown profitable. It does not work all the time, just most of it.

 

Survivorfamily,

I have some recent experience with this. Looking over my funds and found that I had missed an opportunity. Vanguard has a fund that is low cost, that is in precious metals and mining (VGPMX). I took advice to stay in what I had, and not move into it, which was against my intuitive thinking at the time.

Following that advice cost me to loose 40% on my fund and miss the gain of approx 40% on the other opportunity during the same span of time.

Don't know yet if this is a strong buy or hold right now, but am looking this evening and contemplating moving some or all parts in it.

 

If this is an ETF, be careful. Some have said that there is not enough gold to actually back the shares traded. You are much safer buying and selling actual bullion.

 

I finally bit the bullet and bought a bunch of 1 oz silver rounds from APMEX. I was really, really reluctant to make this move but I have about zero confidence in the long term viability of anything but hard assets or commodities.

 

Just an aside, but I don't get the love for APMEX on these types of forums. Is it their pretty website? They NEVER EVER have the best prices when it comes to buying bullion/coins in small amounts online. Do some research people. You're paying too much from APMEX (and getting it shipped USPS to boot, which should be enough to make anyone fear for their shipment).

 

Unless you are a Wall Street insider, think Alpha. It's a timeless classic.

http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/zcontent/alpha_strategy.pdf

 

Thanks for the info



Thanks for the info, looks like an interesting read.

 

What I'd do if I had the money. If there isn't a reasonable amount for an item, shift the amount 50/50 to the other assets and PM assets. The Warrant trading account has to be managed, as do the separate parts of the self managed Permanent Portfolio Fund. The rest can pretty much just be watched and changes made when the overall percentages get out of whack.

I'm not an investment person. This is just what I'd do with a significant amount of money I wanted to diversify so as not to lose too much in any one account. Seek professional advice before you take these suggestions.


10% - Permanent Portfolio Fund

5% - US Treasury Bonds (28+ years)(self-managed PPF)(equalized each year)
5% - US Treasury Money Market Fund (self-managed PPF)(equalized each year)
5% - Gold coins (self-managed PPF)(equalized each year)
5% - Growth Funds (self-managed PPF)(equalized each year)

5% - Deferred annuities
5% - Blue chip mutual funds
5% - Warrant trading accounts (have to manage)

1% - Swiss bank account – Dollars
1% - Swiss bank account - Swiss francs
1% - Swiss bank account – Gold

10% - Quadraplexes

10% - Farm

5% - 1 ounce Gold Eagle (in hand)
5% - 1/2 ounce Gold Eagle (in hand)
5% - 1/4 ounce Gold Eagle (in hand)
5% - 1/10 ounce Gold Eagle (in hand)

3% - Pre-1965 silver dimes (in hand)
3% - Pre-1965 silver quarters (in hand)
3% - Pre-1965 silver halves (in hand)
3% - One-ounce Silver Eagle rounds (in hand)

 

Most of us consider a bunch of food,means to cook it,some hunting and self defense weapons,etc to be more important.I don't mean to make a statement about whatever preps you have.
Just have more than gold and/or silver as a prep.

 

Silver for me. On hand and hidden in many secret caches around the house.
I don't feel that any other commodity that is influenced by greed or corruption is a safe bet.

 

I'm investing in a wood lot. Heat for winter will be very important. I already fired my propane dealer and am using a woodstove to heat the house.

 

Neither my broker nor I knew that I could move my whole IRA into gold eagles and have them stored at a bank. However, after much research we did this. No penalties, no taxes - it was a simple rollover but I now own real gold coins for my IRA. If I withdraw any of it I will be taxed and penalized for early withdrawal as I would if it were paper.
I feel better, not totally safe since the gold is three states away, but better.

Ross

 

Is that gold physically seperate as your own discrete pile that you can go and "roll in"/see/hold anytime you want ?

I've read about some of the fruity deals banks can do with gold deposits, how they can;
a) Lump all their PM holdings together as a conglomerated mass, ie; you do not have your own discrete holding.
b) how they can via fine print at their discretion pay you out in fiat currency by classing your gold as part of the banks over-all wealth assets.

Also, if theres a snap "bank-holiday" called as the result of a sudden short notice collapse and the banks are shut or your bank fails/merges what safe-guards do you have for getting your hard PM assets back ?

 

I have my IRA in 50% index funds, and 50% cash. There is too much change and uncertainty coming down the road over the next 3-5 years for me to do anything else.

 

I like Ramsey's ideas on debt elimination but I find his investment advise utterly worthless. He acknowledges the government's irresponsibility when it comes to spending and how it will destroy us financially but then he says invest in onshore mutual funds. I do not, and will not, own any investment in US dollars, period. Our currency has about as much potential as the Do-Do bird. Look for strong economies that will survival the coming collapse, look for strong sectors in those economies, then look for strong companies in those sectors. Countries to look at, Canada, Australia, Singapore, and Norway to name a few of the best. But the way things look now I am putting most into gold and silver and much of it offshore. I am also stocking up on steel and lead for the home front. Best of luck all.

 

Wedding bands found at many local pawn shops for cheap. String'em on 550 cord. Easy to move,you can hammer into coinage if required, or smelt if you prefer.