[Guerrilla]

Okay guys, I'm not much of a gun guy. I own a few, but am far from an affecionado worthy of talking about them, so I generally stay away from the firearms forum.

I need rubber bullets. I might be a tree hugging hippy, but I've seen the mountain lion that stalks our hills, and it an amazing creature. I have a feeling I am going to have a run in with it sooner or later, as I plan on having some livestock at the cabin. In such a scenario, I do not want to kill it unless absolutely required.

My idea is to load my 30.06 with two rubber bullets, and four regular rounds. (Currently 165gr Remington Corelokt) in an attempt to dehabituate the cougar before I turn him onto an attractive wall hanging.

So, is it legal for me to possess them in any state?

Is it legal for me to possess them in California.

Where can I get them?

Thanks all,
G

 

[varmintstalkers]

dont know about the laws, but remember: rubber bullets are considered less lethal, not non lethal.

also, mountain lions are going for good money on the fur trade.

 

[Glock_22]

I think rubber bullets out of a 30.06 would still kill.

 

[varmintstalkers]

absolutely, but the caliber isnt as important as the charge. after all, a 12 guage delivers a considerably large load as well.

 

[Glock_22]

Problem with a rubber bullet in a 30.06 is that you will have to have enough energy to overcome resistance of lets say a 24" barrel and maintain enough velocity to reach your target but not enough energy to break the skin of a wild animal. All in a .30 cal platform.

BTW the sound a firearm will probably scare the animal away itself.

 

[adam731432]

Your best bet would be too order some rubber buckshot and rubber slugs for a 12guage online. I saw them at cheaperthandirt.com ammunitiontogo.com or some were online. Maby a beanbag load also. I say its risky buisness pissing off a big druged up thugh with rubber bullets, much less a wild animal. I say plug em before he eats YOU!

 

[Guerrilla]

I'll be about 35 yards away firing from a widow's walk / balcony that extends from our bedroom out over my shop's roof. I'll be about 25 feet off the ground. I expect to hear to dogs barking before the cat gets into the goat pens. And if you don't know, a mountain lion CAN jump onto a rooftop, so I'm not relying on height to keep me safe. If the cute little kitty comes at me after the first shot, I'm just dropping the second rubber bullet and going straight to the real thing.

Beanbag / rubber ball shot is not a bad idea. Problem is, I don't have a 12 ga, I have a 20, and it is a single shot. If I **** off the animal, it will take me 2-4 seconds to chamber the next round in the 30.06, maybe 15 to load a second shell into the 20ga. I figure in 30 seconds, I could have six shots at a lion from the 30.06, compared to 2-3 from the shotty. Definitely don't want to become meow mix.

Going to explore less-lethal shells now, Thanks!

 

[Rifleman336]

Rubber Buckshot/Slug/ Beanbag is 12ga Only!!!!

As security Gaurd. I have more than casual passing knowlage of these rounds. First off I would check with the California wildlife Department first, even in fatal cases against humans they're "Protected". So harming them in any way shape or form is illegal.

As far as rubber bullets for 30-06 or any rifle for that matter, the only rounds that I've ever heard of was Israeli 7.62 NATO for the Palisteinaian "Interfada" riots. They would WOUNDED EVERY TIME and killed a little too often for international opinion. So wounding a BIG KITTY is not the good idea.

As for Rubber Buckshot/ Rubber Slug / Flexable Batton/ Beanbag Rounds Again you live in the state where one must have a permit to carry pepper spray! Check your states laws, I have a bad this feeling it's illegal. If it is legal check with any one that carries Seller & Bellot Ammo when you upgrade to a 12ga for it's only available as such Unfourtunatly, 12 Ga is the Military/ Police/ Security standard. IT'S THE ESTABLISHMENT MAN!!! They have both Rubber OO Buck and a single Rubber Ball "slug". Keep in mind these are lethal at 15 feet and closer, just like the real deal!

MK Ballistics makes the bead bag a very accurate, a little safer but a head, throat, just below the sternm shot can kill a human. There hard to come by and expensive for civiallians. I'm not sure if they (MK Ballistics) will sell to civillians. I know they will sell to security companies on letter head, after that I don't know.

If all the above is illegal the only advice I have for you is seal all you livestock in the barn at night! I'M not hippie, far from it, I'd hose the sucker with the 06! Remember the code of the country. The three S's. Shoot, Shovel and Shutup. HELL!!! Feed it to the goats, they'd would love the revenge and besides they'll eat anything!!! You of all people should know that!!!

Alex

 

[adam731432]

There are Federal laws that you can shoot any animal that is destroying your property or attacking you, but then again you live in Cali

Perhaps you could barrow a 12g.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/lessleth_caii.htm

Animals have a high tolerance to pain. I say miss kitty will just come back at night for some tasty goat.

I highly recommend having a shotgun loaded up with buckshot,and a power full pistol as back up to a bolt gun.

Is it true that the colt 1911 and .45acp is banned in Cali ?

 

[Brother Buck]

Again you live in the state where one must have a permit to carry pepper spray!

UMMMMMMM no we don't.


And no .45 acp is legal here but many and I mean many handguns are not legal to sell new here due to draconian hoplophobic legislation.
There is a list of approved guns and I think the 1911 has been dropped off of it.
The 1911 series does not have a loaded chamber indicator or a magazine disconnect so although I am not up to date on todays legislation I think new examples cannot be sold.
They can be sold used however.
That is becoming something of an industry here.

As for rubber bullets I wouldn't bother.
If you have a nuisance cat in the neighborhood let animal control deal with it.
You so much as breathe at Ol' Pete Puma here you are going to do time.

Damn Hippie environmentalist saw to that.......

 

[Guerrilla]

No, I have checked. Mountain Lions are allowed to be shot if they are in the ACT of attacking livestock. Not hopping the fence, not stalking the perimiter, but fangs in neck. And the fish and game official explained clearly, there had better be some damage to my stock when they come out.

And Animal Control? Not in my neighborhood. We have fish and game, and they will simply refer you to a trapper, who will catch and kill a bear. (ran into this about two years ago, a farm I worked at had some nuisance bears. Fish and game gave us the name of a trapper, the trapped caught them, crated them, shot them at the front gate and dumped their carcases off the side of the hill. When we discovered what had happened a few days later, we were a bit pissed. A few hundred dollars for the crate and capture, when any one of us could have simply shot the bears.

And I'm one of those hippy environementalists. I LIKE the kitty. It's gorgeous and possibly the coolest wild animal I have ever had the opportunity to steal a glimpse of in my headlights. (The many bobcat kittens I see, run a close second, just because they look so damned cute) I would prefer to dehabituate the cougar rather than kill it, but it appears that this may not be possible with the 30.06. Going to start putting nickles in a jar for a 12ga.

 

[Brother Buck]

That's your best bet.
A rubber twelve gauge will give it pause and run him off, no permanent damage likely.

You know, you can catch those little Bobcats and they raise up like a house mouser.
***** too but they are crafty little devils and get into everything.

 

[adam731432]

They also sell 12g pepper spray and tear gas. Like i said animals have a HUGE pain tollerance. It will obviously run off but nothing will stop it from coming back if she is hungry enough. Pepper spray might discomfert her enough,for long enough, to stay away for good.

 

[Yorkshire Boy]

Rubber bullets can kill.

"The troubles" in Northern Ireland prove that.

Here's an interesting video. I don't mean it to be political please understand that.

A former American soldier gives us a graphic description of the types of rubber bullets that are used by Israeli military against Palestinians.

 

[Guerrilla]

No doubt rubber bullets can kill, so can pepper spray bullets, and you only have to go as far as boston to see examples of that. I would simply prefer to give the cat a chance to live and to learn that my goats are not food. Just as I would prefer to get shot with rock salt rather than buck shot.

Looking at single shot 12ga slug tossers, but worried about accuracy. I certainly don't want to plug a goat with a pepper ball. (Though it might cover up well with curry.) Much more acurate with the 30.06. And would prefer to be able to switch to lethal rounds with two bolt pulls rather than reaching for a new gun.

 

[adam731432]

Since the rubber "coated" bullets they use are so lethal they now just use a silenced ruger 10/22 to shoot them in the legs. Peace full protesters!
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

I have nothing against Jews but there Gov. had been hijacked by mad men that must be stopped.

 

[adam731432]

The rubber buckshot ,slugs,and beanbags are harmless compared too the high powered rifle rubber bullets. They have too load the rifle rubber bullets to higher pressures and speeds so they will still cycle the gun.

 

[stickdog]

Do you know any long shoremen? forth of july will be here in 2 months and i know they can get m-80's and stuff that should scare off a puma

 

[Guerrilla]

Stickdog, Fortunately, the longshoremen I knew when I was a bartender at a pierside bar in SF are out of my life. because the only "m-80" they ever gave me turned out to be a 1/2 stick of tnt and I blew a little crater in the road with it when it went off.

ha. ha. ha.

No, if I want to make alot of noise, my 30.06 will do that with whatever I load in it.

Even throwing a lit fuse around my cabin in july would be a BAD idea.

 

[Pronetoviolence]

stop with the feel good crap.....if it gets to close or attacks you or your life stock...kill it.