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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I was stopped at a US Border Patrol CP on a highway that doesn't even cross the border, location almost 50 miles from the southern border.This happened within the last month.

I recorded the exchange.

Border Patrol Video.


The last five minutes were cut off, and I will upload them when I can (this 35 minute portion took me 2 days to upload), but the story concludes with a "supervisor" (who is seen in this clip arriving with blue-lights flashing) sending me on my way without making me ID myself or declare my citizenship.

They started off aggressive until they noticed my camera, and then they suddenly found their inner-politeness. That said, even being nice, they couldn't keep their stories straight or even post coherent dialogue about their role and responsibilities, or my obligations.

I would've loved to have performed better myself, but they stop people every day, and this was my first encounter at one of the non-border checkpoints in the Constitution-free-zone.

Feel free to share.

Feel free to criticize when you post your own video of you standing up for your Constitutional protections.
 

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Retired curmudgeon
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The guy asked you if you are a citizen and you refused to answer??

Why?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The guy asked you if you are a citizen and you refused to answer??

Why?
1. Because I wasn't crossing a border.

2. Because they could not articulate an obligation that I had to answer any of their questions.

3. Because it's entirely improper for the US Border Patrol to be conducting checkpoints up to 100 miles from the border, especially on highways that do not even cross a US border.

So my question to you is this; given the assumption that you have a basic understanding of the Constitution, do you think it's proper for the federal gov't to stop people, and tell these people they can assume they are guilty of a crime until these people prove otherwise?
 

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Retired curmudgeon
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I would like to thank that border patrol agent....

lol. this is nothing new. you need to do a little research to know that within 100 miles they can and will stop you. can and will search your vehicle if your a douche. can and will detain you. many demand a secure border until it affects them. lol

for doing his freaking job!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
lol. this is nothing new. you need to do a little research to know that within 100 miles they can and will stop you. can and will search your vehicle if your a douche. can and will detain you. many demand a secure border until it affects them. lol
I wasn't a douche.

Additionally, it's not illegal to just be a 'douche.'

Moments like this are essential to spreading the message that law-abiding citizens should not abandon the wisdom of Ben Franklin who told us not to abandon liberty for security, and shouldn't kneel to the boot of law enforcement just because they've been given questionable leeway in abusing us.

They cannot, however, search my vehicle without a warrant. Maybe you'll give up that right, but I won't.

I, too, demand a secure border. I also demand practical solutions. This non-border checkpoint on a highway that doesn't even cross a border is not a solution. Demanding that I give in to the convenience of their job to satisfy some lazy mentality that we should just comply is ignoble.
 

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To put this in a simple format. When I get pulled over this is what I do.
I am polite and treat them with respect, I use the word Sir, even if they are 10 years younger.
I turn on the interior light if it is dark out, and I dont act jittery, I show them I am no threat, no reason to be alarmed.
I have me DL, Reg and Ins handy, since that is the law and proves I am a US Citizen.

If they ask to search my vehicle, I decline, I always do. I also do it politely. If they threaten me with dogs, I tell them to bring thier best, and lots of them. If they are going to waste my time, I will waste thiers. I also say this politely and in a very non-aggressive way.

Keep in mind that if you do NOT have a DL that is in your possession or is invalid, they have every right to search you and your vehicle in order to determine who you are.

That is my 2 cents.
 

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Tinfoil hatmaker
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OOOORRRRRRR you could have answere the question because you have nothing to hide and let him move on to catch someone who does. Dont get me wrong, i get your point but illegal immigration is an issue and a part of the problem that we are all bracing for. I made the trip (via motorcycle) from El Paso to alamogordo often and the guy at the checkpoint simply stepped out of the shack, and said citizen? I knodded and rolled on. Most times i never even rolled to a stop. To each his own i guess, i would consider being civily disobedient in a more productive way though. Food for thought?
 

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On this forum you are danged if you do and danged if you dont. Thick skin is recommended.
Standing up for your self against that much force and uncertain outcomes is a brave act no matter who you are.

Question authority.
I dont disagree with you...but there are a thousand ways to skin a cat. Some much better than others.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
To put this in a simple format. When I get pulled over this is what I do.
I am polite and treat them with respect, I use the word Sir, even if they are 10 years younger.
I turn on the interior light if it is dark out, and I dont act jittery, I show them I am no threat, no reason to be alarmed.
I have me DL, Reg and Ins handy, since that is the law and proves I am a US Citizen.

If they ask to search my vehicle, I decline, I always do. I also do it politely. If they threaten me with dogs, I tell them to bring thier best, and lots of them. If they are going to waste my time, I will waste thiers. I also say this politely and in a very non-aggressive way.

Keep in mind that if you do NOT have a DL that is in your possession or is invalid, they have every right to search you and your vehicle in order to determine who you are.

That is my 2 cents.
The first parts are common sense. Your comments veer off quickly, though.

A driver's license is not proof of citizenship. Border patrol checkpoints are not 'driver's license, insurance, registration' checkpoints, and the status of those items does not grant the BP the "right" to search me or my vehicle.

I'm certainly open (likely more than most in this forum) for rational dialogue and to be educated, but I have high hopes that it will be based in Constitutional thinking and liberty rather than the simple surrender to convenience.
 

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The first parts are common sense. Your comments veer off quickly, though.

A driver's license is not proof of citizenship. Border patrol checkpoints are not 'driver's license, insurance, registration' checkpoints, and the status of those items does not grant the BP the "right" to search me or my vehicle.
No maybe a DL isnt proof, well if Illegals start getting them. But what it does show is that I am a person with a vested interest in this country and the state and not a Illegal Alien trying to worm thier way north.

If you do NOT have a valid DL or fail to present it...they CAN and WILL search your vehicle. And I support that law. Next time you run into that, have all your papers in order and see how much of a different experience you have.
 
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Jihaadi GoBOOM
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Stopped regularly between the border and Phoenix. Always the same. Citizen? Yep. Have a nice day sir.
Once about 3 miles out of Nogales I was asked if anyone else was in the car. Said I had a Guatemalan family of 10 in the trunk. He laughed. Ever see a Honda Civic hatchback...
 

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lol. this is nothing new. you need to do a little research to know that within 100 miles they can and will stop you. can and will search your vehicle if your a douche. can and will detain you. many demand a secure border until it affects them. lol
Secure borders happen AT the border, not 50 miles inside US territory. Maybe the border could be better secured if the border patrol could actually find the time to get to the border once in a while.


for doing his freaking job!!
His job is to question people 50 miles from any border, who have not been seen near a border, or crossing a border? His job is just to hassle people because they happened to stray to close to, or live to near, the border? Apparently "too near" a border is 100 miles? Even when I was border patrol on the German border, the authorized personnel zone was only 5 km!

To put this in a simple format. When I get pulled over this is what I do.
I am polite and treat them with respect, I use the word Sir, even if they are 10 years younger.
I turn on the interior light if it is dark out, and I dont act jittery, I show them I am no threat, no reason to be alarmed.
I have me DL, Reg and Ins handy, since that is the law and proves I am a US Citizen.So if a garbage man pulls you over, do you assume he has jurisdiction to "see your papers" as well?

If they ask to search my vehicle, I decline, I always do. I also do it politely. If they threaten me with dogs, I tell them to bring thier best, and lots of them. If they are going to waste my time, I will waste thiers. I also say this politely and in a very non-aggressive way.

Keep in mind that if you do NOT have a DL that is in your possession or is invalid, they have every right to search you and your vehicle in order to determine who you are.

That is my 2 cents.
Sounds like less than 2 cents worth of advice.

OOOORRRRRRR you could have answere the question because you have nothing to hide and let him move on to catch someone who does. Dont get me wrong, i get your point but illegal immigration is an issue and a part of the problem that we are all bracing for. I made the trip (via motorcycle) from El Paso to alamogordo often and the guy at the checkpoint simply stepped out of the shack, and said citizen? I knodded and rolled on. Most times i never even rolled to a stop. To each his own i guess, i would consider being civily disobedient in a more productive way though. Food for thought?
Yes, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. Bend over for the cavity search, and no, we do not need a warrant to enter and search your house. We are looking for things which may be dangerous, like pointy-ended scissors. People get hurt running with scissors, you know.

To stop illegal immigrants go to the border, not 50 miles from it to hassle people driving of their own volition in the actual USA.
 

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I was pulled over in TX and lied to! He asked me why I was pulled over and I said no. He says I was speeding, I said really? My GPS said 65, the speedo said 65 and I was NOT speeding. He asked me to step back to his vehicle which I complied with, spoke with me and then went and spoke with my wife.

I'm sure it was a drug stop, but he should have said that from the beginning instead of lying and saying I was speeding. I didn't push the issue to assert my rights because my entire family was with me, if it was just my wife I might have asked him why he wanted me to go back to his car.

The only thing I did was write a letter to the Texas state highway patrol about my encounter.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
OOOORRRRRRR you could have answere the question because you have nothing to hide and let him move on to catch someone who does. Dont get me wrong, i get your point but illegal immigration is an issue and a part of the problem that we are all bracing for. I made the trip (via motorcycle) from El Paso to alamogordo often and the guy at the checkpoint simply stepped out of the shack, and said citizen? I knodded and rolled on. Most times i never even rolled to a stop. To each his own i guess, i would consider being civily disobedient in a more productive way though. Food for thought?
The 'nothing to hide' condition is not a reason to surrender even an inch of liberty.

Your thought was one that the BP tried to use, attempting to blame me for interfering with their ability to chase anyone else. Since they stopped me, then the burden falls on them to decide if I should be their focus, or if they should be going after these other 'bad guys' instead.

We all should enjoy the presumption of innocence (Taylor v. Kentucky?); these agents actually said in this stop that the burden to prove that I was a citizen fell on me, and that they could assume I was not a citizen until I proved otherwise. I asked them to state the elements of suspicion that made them think I was not a US citizen.

I was not being 'civily disobedient.' I was merely exercising my Constitutional rights. I don't think it's unproductive to make a few agents think about what they are doing when they aren't even on the border. As stated in the video, these agents actually said they would prefer to be on the border and chasing bad guys in the desert; I agreed with them and reinforced to them that I believed their interogatories were appropriate for border crossers.
 

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Next time have a DL. Fairly simply. What is so hard about that ?

Serious.
 

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Remember The Alamo
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To put this in a simple format. When I get pulled over this is what I do.
I am polite and treat them with respect, I use the word Sir, even if they are 10 years younger.
I turn on the interior light if it is dark out, and I dont act jittery, I show them I am no threat, no reason to be alarmed.
I have me DL, Reg and Ins handy, since that is the law and proves I am a US Citizen.

If they ask to search my vehicle, I decline, I always do. I also do it politely. If they threaten me with dogs, I tell them to bring thier best, and lots of them. If they are going to waste my time, I will waste thiers. I also say this politely and in a very non-aggressive way.

Keep in mind that if you do NOT have a DL that is in your possession or is invalid, they have every right to search you and your vehicle in order to determine who you are.

That is my 2 cents.
Do you carry lipstick???
 
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