10-22 and a decent sidearm. IMHO the S&W .22 is a joke.
The extra money it will cost will get you the 10 22 and half way to a good pistol.
Then you have a shotgun, 22 and pistol. Nice trio.

 

In terms of a "good pistol," I have considered a .38/.357. The ammo is easy to come by, both now and likely in the future. And, I love the simplicity of a revolver. Doable?

 

However, in terms of self-defense, the .308 is not the best choice.

Why not? It's been used for exactly that purpose by armed forces across the world. Well...The 7.62 x 51 NATO round has, and there really isn't much difference between the two.

On the other hand, we are more likely to encounter small game, varmint, etc. than larger game along our trek and the .22lr is perfect here. Also, it's lighter. And, if I pickup a model like the M&P 15-22 I listed above, I get semi-auto. In terms of personal defense, it may not have the stopping power of a .357 but multiple rounds to the torso will stop just about anyone. Not to mention, the M&P 15-22 looks like a lot more rifle than it is. Never underestimate the power of intimidation.

Multiple .308 rounds to the centre mass are going to be far more effective than multiple .22 LR rounds to the centre mass.

 

Why not? It's been used for exactly that purpose by armed forces across the world. Well...The 7.62 x 51 NATO round has, and there really isn't much difference between the two.

Certainly, under some conditions, it will work fine. However, I don't foresee many self-defense encounters happening at range. Those are (or at least seem to me) avoidable.

Multiple .308 rounds to the centre mass are going to be far more effective than multiple .22 LR rounds to the centre mass.

True. But, the .308 models I'm considering and willing to purchase aren't semi-auto. I'm a good shot (thanks, US Army!) but multiple rounds on a bolt-action at close range? I'd rather find an alternative.

 

Yea Stay away from the M & P in 22lr. The last thing you want is peeps thinking you have an Assault Rifle when you Don't. 10-22 out of your choices.. I went with Marlin Model 60 22lr. You can carry 5000 rounds for it if need be. Have you hunted Deer before ? If not Good luck getting with in 150 yards of 1.... Its not that easy. I would be trying for Small Game in a pinch. Good Luck and its good your getting things Together now

 

Thanks! With the passage of NDAA, I think it's only a matter of time.

I grew up in a hunting home with a father who didn't think twice about taking his daughter out hunting. I've harvested my share of deer and all but a couple took place inside 150 yards. Additionally, I've read in multiple places that this is the average across North America.

I certainly like the simplicity of the 10/22. And, I've heard good things about the Marlin 60. The ammo availability and the weight of the Ruger are huge bonuses.

 

Look into an AK or a Mini-30?

 

Now, the Mini 30 is another great rifle. But, I don't see how it solves my dilemma. It is one among many that I would consider purchasing if I go the .308 (or rough equivalent) route. Is there a reason you feel this is a better option than the .22lr?

Also, I'm not looking for a combat firearm. We'll be trekking mountains more than urban centers. I'm looking for a simple tool that will be the most efficient at providing food and help the 12 GA with the self-defense role.

 

A good pistol is your most important weapon after TSHTF. Because you can always have it with you and it is quick to deploy.
A Glock 23 comes in .40S&W, but you can get a 9mm and .357Sig conversion barrels, and a .22 conversion kit. 1 pistol, 4 calibers. It will allow self defense and small game hunting.

Pair it with an AR15. An "M-Forgery" M-4 clone. 16" barrel, collapsable stock, don't hang a bunch of crap off of it and keep the weight to under 7 pounds. Get a .22 conversion kit for it too. You now have the ability to deal with bad guys and hunt bigger game.
500 rounds of .22 is easy to carry.

 

..... However, in terms of self-defense, the .308 is not the best choice....

Actually in terms of long guns, the .308 cartridge is the best choice. This is why the .308 MBR is king. Distance to target does not matter, it will kill at any range you can hit, where the 12ga and .22 cannot. (I assume you are not practiced with making 800+ yard shots.)

Do you want a powerful gun or a lightweight gun? If you want the lightest loadout with the most power, we need specifics. If you want to hunt, give us specific animals to get the right cartridge.

If you want light weight, get a .22 rifle and pistol.
If you want power get a .44mag and .30-06.
If you want reliability, get a revolver and bolt action rifle.
If you want to fight in the city get a Glock 9mm and AK.
If you want to fight in the woods get a Glock 10mm and M1A.
If you want to cover any and all scenarios, you need to carry six guns. Sorry, but your target and range will determine the best cartridge and operating system.

 

I assume you are not practiced with making 800+ yard shots.

You assume correctly.

If you want light weight, get a .22 rifle and pistol.
If you want power get a .44mag and .30-06.
If you want reliability, get a revolver and bolt action rifle.

Whatever rifle I end up choosing, it will be a bolt action. I must admit that the .22lr and pistol option is very appealing. The options referred to above are the most appealing to me and would fit my situation the best. As the option of carrying a pistol, a rifle and shotgun seems like a possible solution, I'll give it more thought.

 

Get a Saiga .308. It can do the hunting role against large game and double as a self defense rifle easily. Ultra reliable ak design and a rapid second fast shot is handy when up against a angry bear.
Also for self defense a .308 will penetrate most tree trunks someone might take cover behind.

 

... a .308 will penetrate most tree trunks someone might take cover behind.

...bullcrap.

 

from my experience there isnt many animals that a 12 guage cant put down,,,slugs will drop about anything in north america,,ive killed bears,,,moose,,,ect,,,
so if it was me i think i would keep the 12,,,,maybe add the 22 so i could carry a fair amount of ammo ,,,keep the slugs for defense and big game,,,use the 22 for hunting,,the only problem with the 12 is ammo is heavy,,,but if its just defence and big game u dont need as much

 

bugoutpunk,
A good "minimalist" survival gun would be a combination rifle/shotgun. Something like an 30-06/12 gauge or similar would be a good choice. A .22 revolver might make a nice, quiet, small game getter with .22 shorts.

 

You notice I then showed a 12" post? I plan to show some heavier trees when I get a chance to. The fact is that a 150 gr. fmj will penetrate a lot more than people think. Granted I don't think it'll go through a 3ft thick hardwood but you'd be surprised just how deep it will go. As I said a lot of nam vets refused to give up their M14's for that reason. Also the OP is talking about the Pacific Northwest where allmost all trees are pines and the majority are 2ft or less due to logging.

 

Another interesting option, might be one of you with a bolt .223 or .308 and the other with a Rossi Circuit Judge lever action in .410/.45. That would give you a pretty good range of uses from small game to medium or large with .410 slugs and depending on the rifle caliber.

 

Marlin model 60

Weight will be a huge determining factor. How much can you practically carry? Hi power large calibers are all good and fine,but consider not only the weight of the weapon but the ammo as well. I think the .22 rifle far more practical for survival off the beaten path.

 

OP, help yourself by narrowing down what calibers you want to carry. Then select the type of operating system for the guns themselves that is within your budget, carry weight, and familiarity.

.22 = targets and squirrels. Effective as sidearms or rifles.
.38spl = humans and dogs
9mm = humans and dogs
.357 = humans and smallish deer. Effective as sidearms or rifles
.44mag=humans, medium deer and mountain lions. Effective in sidearms or rifles.
.30-30 = humans, medium deer and mountain lions. Longer range than a .44mag, but not available for sidearms. Good deer gun for heavy woods.
.308 =humans, larger deer mountain lions, and medium bear
.30-06 =humans, most all deer, mountain lions and bear (using the correct loads)

Single shot = the lightest weight, nearly zero parts to maintain, but follow up shots are nearly impossible for any footed game. Ammo quality does not affect operating system.

Bolt action = lightest weight and usually the most rugged of an internal capacity rifle. Ammo quality does not affect operating system

Pump and lever action = a few more parts than a bolt action, but faster to re-aquire target than a bolt action. Requires a medium amount of maintenance. Ammo quality rarely affects operating system

Auto-loading = less tollerant of bad ammo, the fastest to re-aquire target, can require more maintenance (depending on design).

 

Given that you're highly interested in the trifecta of bug-out arms needs (light weight, versatile re: self defense and hunting, simple & reliable) I suggest:

357 revolver
357 lever action rifle
22 semi auto pistol

large and small game are easily taken with this assortment of arms. Two legged predators can be defended against. Ammo needs are greatly simplified in terms of weight and probability of finding during shtf.

with regards to your lightweight hiking this will meet your needs, imho, better than toting a shotgun, pistol(s) and various ammo. I know this because I was in a similar position and experimented a lot with different setups and my suggested solution is what I came up with and it works quite well (I spend hundreds of miles on foot in the Cascades and Coast Range - Oregon fyi)...

 

You've already got the shotgun. Get the .308 and a large caliber pistol and you're good to go. Forget the .22s. The shotgun will do anything the .22s will.

 

Except use quiet ammo.

 

all auto ammo will be hard to come by in the futher , you needea wheel gun like 22/38/357 these rounds the goverment will not worry about and they will be available to get.
a .22 is a fine small game an defense weapon for short distance, and as history has shown was assassin weapon of choice, a 38/357 i can tell you from my police and military experience can and will kill any thing you want , it is one of the most reliable and powerfull rounds available today.

 

Have you considered .22 magnum?? While not very good for bears, you can definitely take deer with it, and you can use lighter or heavier loads depending on what you're hunting, and you can begin to take it seriously as a self defense round.

Also, what about an M1 Carbine? Again, you have the advantage of load versatility; lighter loads have the potential to not turn squirrels and grouse into pink mist; and if you don't see huge bears very often (after SHTF, there definitely won't be many around at all), you could probably use some good softpoint or even hollowpoint (depends on the rifle) on smaller bears.

I'd prefer these and many other low caliber high velocity rounds over big 'ol fat rounds like .308. Remember, small game will be the majority of what you see, so most preparations should be for them along with two legged critters, not 12 foot grizzly bears and giant deer.

 

Also, what about an M1 Carbine? Again, you have the advantage of load versatility; lighter loads have the potential to not turn squirrels and grouse into pink mist; and if you don't see huge bears very often (after SHTF, there definitely won't be many around at all), you could probably use some good softpoint or even hollowpoint (depends on the rifle) on smaller bears.

I wouldn't want to use a .30 carbine on a bear at all, but just wondering why you think there won't be many bear after shtf?

 

Not sure how much hunting experience you have but taking Rocky Mountain deer, mule deer and some of our other game animals with a .22 magnum is something you should think hard about before attempting. You sound more like an occasional hunter than someone who is anticipating regular expeditions and spending time attempting to take down a game animal with a round like that.

Can it be done? Yes. Can someone with little experience do it successfully the first time? Maybe you're that good a shot/hunter but consider the tracking task ahead if you don't get that shot placed correctly.

Seem a bit too "minimalist" for the animal.

 

Minimalism... 10/22 with butler creek folding stock. Slaps on a backpack nicely. Stainless would be my first choice. That will cover small game, and man/deer size in a pinch... If youre a good shot, a 22LR pistol would be nice. Or a 22mag revolver even better, load 22 short for in close, quiet, small game- up to full power 22 mag for penetrating elk skull between the eyes. Its also a backup self defense pistol... 22 mag semi auto can shoot LR, only single shot though.

Have you considered a 357 revolver and lever action combo? One ammo type to carry or reload, two different weapons. Lever actions are slim, lightweight, easy handling. 150 yd range max out of rifle with more power than revolver. There is also 44mag combo if need extra umph, but less range, for elk, bear. Wont look like a 'freak' out in the woods with an 'evil' rifle, either. Just a hunter or a backpacker needing extra protection with grandaddies lever action...

3'' 12ga slug is best bear medicine around, better than 308. 12ga ammo is not light nor compact though. If I were after a 308 in your shoes, I'd get a SOCOM M1A. All purpose rifle, from invading hordes to sleeping bambi to big bruin. Combat reliable, short, accurate. Extra compact with a sliding stock, though expensive on an expensive rifle.

 

Get a used 30/30 and a .22 pistol.

 

I'll tell you what works for me and you can do with it what you want. As some others have stated previously your desired game, local terrain, and personal needs/ wants/ price range will help you decide.

I carry a Socom 16 with a burris 2.5 scout scope loaded with 180 grain soft points good for pretty much everything I can envision having to engage in my area.

A Kimber Raptor II with 6 mags of Cor-bon DPX

My wife carries, (depending on whether we are on foot or vehical mounted) my LMT Defender 2000 w/ Eotech loaded with M855 or my Remington 870 initially loaded with Winchester PDX1 which IMO is good for pretty much anything out to 35-40m and available reloads with 2 3/4" slug, 00 buck or bird of various weights.

Her sidearm is a S&W M&P 9mmc with 4 spare mags of Cor-Bon.

The shotgun also stays loaded with that as our home defense weapon of choice in the bedroom

 

My suggestion is a Remington 700 in .308 (or .30-'06) with a Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10x40 scope on KwikSite see-through mount, with a couple of .32 ACP chamber adapters and a sling. The .32 ACP will take small game when wanted, and you have the power of the .308/.30-'06 for dangerous situations or for big game if you so choose.

You might also consider adding a .45 ACP handgun for it's versitility. Besides the FMJ rounds for normal carry (or higher performance ammo if inclined), you can get shot shells for snake defense on the trail and flares for signalling.

Just my opinion.

 

I have an '06 and .32acp adapters, cast slugs over low charges of red dot shoot tightest groups. plenty good for squacks and hares, possums and coons.

 

I think it would have to be three Firearms.

Ruger M77 357/38 Bolt action.

Ruger GP 100

Ruger Mark 3 .22 for small game.


Will the .357 take a bear? Shot placement. If you weren't stuck on a bolt action i'd go with a Marlin 1894 lever-action.