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I don't know what ya'll are talking about. My Glock 19 eats everything I throw at it. It's had one single malfunction, ever. And, that likely was a single round of bad ammo. Didn't fire.
So...in the world of ancecdotal evidence....I actually know a guy that sold his "unreliable" Glock and kept his Hi Point.
I really wish he had told me he was selling that Glock before he did so. I have NO idea what the issue was.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
As I posted earlier I have had many close encounters with both black and grizzly bear. I've written extensively on this. I've been stalked, bluff charged, even tripped over a small blackie as a kid living in Yosemite. We spend summers in the Rockies and I usually add a few more bear stories each year.

1. You don't have to kill bear. You need to understand them. Before you accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal tree hugger ;) :D I shot my first and only bear at 17 with a .30-30. What I mean, is understand the different reactions of black vs brown (griz) bear.

Black bear will usually (put "usually" in front of most of these comments) run off if you yell and wave arms and don't corner them. Grizzly are just plain mean. They are the apex predator, so show respect. Talk calmly, back away slowly, try to convey you aren't food or a threat. If that doesn't work...

2. I carry Counter Assault bear spray. The big can with a 40 ft fog. Anybody here know Todd Orr up in MT? I've talked with him a few times since his attack. He was attacked twice by a grizzly. In Todd's case the bear ran right through the spray and mauled him. The second time it hit him so fast and hard he lost hold of his gun. Since then I carry TWO cans hiking in grizzly areas.

3. Guns: My opinion - a shotgun or high power rifle is best. 12 ga slugs, .30-06, .45-70, .375h&h, maybe .308 on the low end will be most effective on grizzly. An AK mag dump on full auto would probably work too. Pretty much any gun seems to stop blackies.

But, unless hunting, long guns aren't socially acceptable in many places bear frequent. Carry a shotgun in Yellowstone and tell us how your day goes. ;)

4. My pistol of choice in grizzly/moose areas is a .44 mag Redhawk, usually in a chest rig. But it seems whenever I have a close encounter I'm carrying my Glock 19. So now I carry a spare mag of Buffalo Bore and swap it for my HP defense rounds in grizzly areas. If I lived in Alaska or Montana I'd probably go with a bigger pistol, 10mm, .454, .50 bmg(?). ;) But I can't justify the cost based on our minimal threat level. A .45 with BB is probably adequate too in the lower 48. In black bear country I think anything .38 up will work (usually).

So what is my plan? Carry your tools ready to hand. I keep one can of spray on my chest harness or pack strap. One on my belt or in my hip pocket. Bear spray in left hand, pistol in right. If I had time, to even deploy either, the plan is fire pepper gas at 15 yards (45 ft). If it doesn't turn almost immediately you have maybe 2 seconds, drop spray and fire handgun until empty or dead.

Keep in mind if you think you will shoot a charging grizz with a pistol. Your effective target area is about 12"x24", and it's bouncing up and down about a foot. Good luck until it's pretty close.

Reality is deer, bees and ladders kill more people than bear. In 95% of cases verbal and physical movement will suffice. In 4% spray will solve the problem. In 0.5% a gun will stop the threat.

And the last 0.5%, well the bear wins. :D
All good points. A car will also stop a bear… and vice versa. I’ve had more encounters with bears than ladders lately though
 

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2 different but similar incidents with 2 different outcomes. There was no definitive reason why the Glock wouldn't fire
Glocks do have a slight flaw with their strikers. Glocks are suppose to be run pretty dry, so if the owner put oil on the striker, the oil could have acted with the striker cups to keep the striker from striking the primer with enough force to set it off.

The standard striker cups also do not work well with any moisture build up in the striker channel. Being outside in the wet or cold could have caused a build-up of moisture and again prevented the striker from hitting the primer with enough force. I've read accounts of people having just rainy days that caused this issue with their striker cups.

You can switch the standard cups out for Mariner cups to negate the moisture build up, but I've read its a trade-off as the Mariner cups are suppose to wear faster than the standard cups, and can sometimes wear unevenly causing the striker not to align correctly in the channel.

The short of it is, if you are relying on a Glock, you should make sure it runs reliably in the environments you will be in, and tune it accordingly. And then keep a close eye on those modifications for function.

So my guess would be, the Glock malfunctioned during the attack due to moisture build-up in the striker channel, but functioned correctly later after the moisture had a chance to dissipate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Glocks do have a slight flaw with their strikers. Glocks are suppose to be run pretty dry, so if the owner put oil on the striker, the oil could have acted with the striker cups to keep the striker from striking the primer with enough force to set it off.

The standard striker cups also do not work well with any moisture build up in the striker channel. Being outside in the wet or cold could have caused a build-up of moisture and again prevented the striker from hitting the primer with enough force. I've read accounts of people having just rainy days that caused this issue with their striker cups.

You can switch the standard cups out for Mariner cups to negate the moisture build up, but I've read its a trade-off as the Mariner cups are suppose to wear faster than the standard cups, and can sometimes wear unevenly causing the striker not to align correctly in the channel.

The short of it is, if you are relying on a Glock, you should make sure it runs reliably in the environments you will be in, and tune it accordingly. And then keep a close eye on those modifications for function.

So my guess would be, the Glock malfunctioned during the attack due to moisture build-up in the striker channel, but functioned correctly later after the moisture had a chance to dissipate.
Interesting analysis, I learn something new every day
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
HUH ??.

You state the Glock was a fail !.

But having read,and reread that article it appears that the man did not know how to LOAD IT !!!.

And as I see it an empty gun is not a fail.

I own and shoot 10 Glocks [ among dozens of other brands ] and not one has had a fail !.

The only fail I had was the 3 .45's and yes 2 are Glocks,one is a 1911 Kimber = all due to ammo failure.
I’ve been trying to decide recently between a 10mm and a .45. Which would you recommend?
 

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So...in the world of ancecdotal evidence....I actually know a guy that sold his "unreliable" Glock and kept his Hi Point.
I really wish he had told me he was selling that Glock before he did so. I have NO idea what the issue was.
It's possible one can get a lemon. All brands even reliable ones can have something go wrong. I'm sure there are Hondas or Toyotas occasionally that leave the factory with an issue. But, such cases are rarer than other brands, and will likely get fixed quickly by the maker. I drive a Honda for this reason. There are no large production makes and models that don't have occasional issues. It's just the rate. Same thing with failures in firearms. The metric for testing isn't zero failures from my understanding, but a very low rate per certain round count, such as one failure per 1000 or something similar. Glocks are like that. So are S&W M&P's. I actually prefer the latter, but do have a Glock 19. So far, my Glock 19 has one failure in 1000 rounds, and my S&W Shield has zero. But, for all I know, someone else has a reverse situation but with both makes and models being reliable for the most part. With one round in 1000, it could be ammo related at that point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
It's possible one can get a lemon. All brands even reliable ones can have something go wrong. I'm sure there are Hondas or Toyotas occasionally that leave the factory with an issue. But, such cases are rarer than other brands, and will likely get fixed quickly by the maker. I drive a Honda for this reason. There are no large production makes and models that don't have occasional issues. It's just the rate. Same thing with failures in firearms. The metric for testing isn't zero failures from my understanding, but a very low rate per certain round count, such as one failure per 1000 or something similar. Glocks are like that. So are S&W M&P's. I actually prefer the latter, but do have a Glock 19. So far, my Glock 19 has one failure in 1000 rounds, and my S&W Shield has zero. But, for all I know, someone else has a reverse situation but with both makes and models being reliable for the most part. With one round in 1000, it could be ammo related at that point.
What do you prefer in the M&P over the Glock?
 

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I’ve been trying to decide recently between a 10mm and a .45. Which would you recommend?
For me the .45 has been my EDC go to round/gun most of my life. If I lived in big grizz country maybe the 10mm. But the recoil is greater, and it's yet another caliber to stock ammo for. I can't justify another gun just for animals. Though a 10mm for urban animals seems reasonable these days. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
For me the .45 has been my EDC go to round/gun most of my life. If I lived in big grizz country maybe the 10mm. But the recoil is greater, and it's yet another caliber to stock ammo for. I can't justify another gun just for animals. Though a 10mm for urban animals seems reasonable these days. ;)
I like the styling/look better. The new Shield Plus triggers are better than any stock Glock. They are basically 3.0. Also, I like having the option of a manual safety.
I have recently looked at some compact .45s. I'm not a fan of carrying large frame handguns. Not necessarily for bears lol, I have a ruger super redhawk snub for that
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
I don't have a .45, but would like one. I have looked at the compact .45's, but if I get one do I really want my one .45 to be a compact?
When I’m the woods, sometimes coyotes coming up on my blind are a problem so I would probably just keep it for that and then keep it in my truck. I have my 45-70 if a bear comes up when I’m hunting
 

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I'll stick with my autos and nylon coated ball ammo. Tremendous penetration. Just what a bear needs! By the time you get off one or two shots with your wheelgun, I will get off 4.

Only problem is getting nylon coated ball ammo anymore.
I think now days they make hard cast loads for such things:

38 SPL +P OUTDOORSMAN (buffalobore.com)

9MM +P OUTDOORSMAN (buffalobore.com)
This is the one used by the Alaskan guide on a Grizzly. I have some.

Underwood Ammo 38 Special +P 158 Grain Hard Cast Lead Flat Nose Box of (midwayusa.com)
Product Information
Cartridge38 Special +P
Grain Weight158 Grains
Quantity20 Round
Muzzle Velocity1250 Feet Per Second
Muzzle Energy555 Foot Pounds
Bullet StyleFlat Nose
Lead FreeNo
Case TypeNickel Plated
PrimerBoxer
CorrosiveNo
ReloadableYes
Country of OriginUnited States of America
This is supposed to be the hottest .38 special round on the market.

I also have some, ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
I think now days they make hard cast loads for such things:

38 SPL +P OUTDOORSMAN (buffalobore.com)

9MM +P OUTDOORSMAN (buffalobore.com)
This is the one used by the Alaskan guide on a Grizzly. I have some.

Underwood Ammo 38 Special +P 158 Grain Hard Cast Lead Flat Nose Box of (midwayusa.com)
Product Information
Cartridge38 Special +P
Grain Weight158 Grains
Quantity20 Round
Muzzle Velocity1250 Feet Per Second
Muzzle Energy555 Foot Pounds
Bullet StyleFlat Nose
Lead FreeNo
Case TypeNickel Plated
PrimerBoxer
CorrosiveNo
ReloadableYes
Country of OriginUnited States of America
This is supposed to be the hottest .38 special round on the market.

I also have some, ;)
Or just bounce up to 357 loads in a 38 case if the gun can handle it
 

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The thing about shooting those +P rounds is people are usually shooting them through a gun designed for regular rounds and the recoil is no fun
Well not really though. Almost all new .38 special revolvers today are rated for +P. Mine is. The main issue is many new snubbies are airweights, which makes the recoil horrendous for the most hot rounds. They aren't even that bad for the basic +P rounds, although it's certainly stout recoil. But, having fired about 20 of the Buffalo Bore +P out of my airweight, that is very heavy recoil.
 
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