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2 different but similar incidents with 2 different outcomes. There was no definitive reason why the Glock wouldn't fire

Those who know will remember when a guy stopped a charging grizzly dead with his revolver:

Charging Bear Killed in Alaska

The closest you will get in a normal pistol to revolver power is 10 mm so here is the story about the guy whose 10 mm Glock failed him and his buddy when a charging grizzly killed one of them:

10mm Glock 'fully functional' in fatal grizzly attack - WyoFile
HUH ??.

You state the Glock was a fail !.

But having read,and reread that article it appears that the man did not know how to LOAD IT !!!.

And as I see it an empty gun is not a fail.

I own and shoot 10 Glocks [ among dozens of other brands ] and not one has had a fail !.

The only fail I had was the 3 .45's and yes 2 are Glocks,one is a 1911 Kimber = all due to ammo failure.

So your post is DISinformation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
HUH ??.

You state the Glock was a fail !.

But having read,and reread that article it appears that the man did not know how to LOAD IT !!!.

And as I see it an empty gun is not a fail.

I own and shoot 10 Glocks [ among dozens of other brands ] and not one has had a fail !.

The only fail I had was the 3 .45's and yes 2 are Glocks,one is a 1911 Kimber = all due to ammo failure.

So your post is DISinformation.
The article said they are not sure what happened. Do you remember if the 45s were aluminum case?
 

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Yes, I would say it’s definitely poor planning on his part. I think 44 magnum as a minimum in a handgun and that’s close. I have shot 44 magnum buffalo bore loads out of a Ruger super redhawk and it is physically painful to the shooter. I can’t imagine what it does to things on the other end. If it was me and I was a guide, I would keep a 4570 or if it had to be a handgun, 454 or 460
I’m more inclined to take a 10mm in bear country. A lot of Alaskan guides carry 10mm with hotter loads and cast bullets. Plus I get 15 shots at the bear.

I think , unless a rifle is an option, I’d rather have 15x at making a pretty big hole in something vital than 6x making a slightly bigger hole in something vital. Bears move fast.
 

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1. Never set your gun aside for any reason especially dressing game.
this is a relatively common occurrence.
2. the person your with should know how to operate your weapon in the event you become disabled.
I have heard stories like this all my life,
3. bear run at about 35 mph. You don’t have time to fiddle with your gun.
The best “safety“is between your ears . If that one doesn’t work you don’t belong with having a gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
1. Never set your gun aside for any reason especially dressing game.
this is a relatively common occurrence.
2. the person your with should know how to operate your weapon in the event you become disabled.
I have heard stories like this all my life,
3. bear run at about 35 mph. You don’t have time to fiddle with your gun.
The best “safety“is between your ears . If that one doesn’t work you don’t belong with having a gun.
If you are in grizzly country with 2 guys and 1 gun, that’s also a problem
 

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I read the story, and it seems to me that the Glock was fine, the client didn't know how to use it. Apparently there wasn't a round in the chamber and also, the client seems to have depressed the mag release, dropping the magazine.
A large percentage of gun owners rarely practice with them, or even get training.
 

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Huh...My Hi Points love both.

So...is that cheap ammo the problem..or is that Glock the problem?

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

But really....it is RARELY EVER the price or "quality" of the ammo.

It's almost always THIS given gun dislikes THAT given ammo. Glocks generally work with just about any ammo....but there are certainly some they don't like, for whatever reason. My Glock runs Sellier and Bellot just fine.

Doesn't mean the ammo is low quality. Could be bullet tip shape, could be some other dimension that is 100% within spec, but THAT particular Glock can't handle it. But even if MY Glock won't run it, my CZ or my Hi Point or my Walther or my Sig or maybe your Glock will have no issues with it...whle they choke on some other type of ammo that my Glock loves.

No matter what anyone says about what their gun eats....ALWAYS check your ammo with your gun before deciding to buy a lot of it, or using it for carry use.(y)
I don't know what ya'll are talking about. My Glock 19 eats everything I throw at it. It's had one single malfunction, ever. And, that likely was a single round of bad ammo. Didn't fire.
 

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If you are in grizzly country with 2 guys and 1 gun, that’s also a problem
And the situation involving guide Mark Uptain was just a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances.

It was archery season and the client (from Florida) had killed an elk the previous evening with a crossbow. I believe they got it gutted but the carcass had to stay at the kill site overnight. This is common in the backcountry and people who would say never do that just don’t understand the conditions and circumstances.

They came the next day to get it quartered and ready to pack out. Since it was archery season, it got warm and Uptain removed his shoulder holster and took his outer shirt off to work on the carcass. Soon after that the sow grizzly attacked. They looked up and she was just on them fast.

Uptain took the attack and was trying to get bear spray off his belt while being mauled. While this was going on, the panicked client was trying to figure out what to do. At some point the client got Uptain’s pistol. From there it gets less certain because it’s all the panicked client’s testimony. But the client apparently fumbled with the pistol and ejected the magazine. Then he may have tossed the pistol toward Uptain before fleeing on his horse.

Uptain eventually got his bear spray deployed and it apparently did break the attack but he had already sustained non-survivable injuries. When they found Uptain dead, they recovered his empty pistol and an empty bear spray canister and his body had not been fed on or cached-up with brush, just abandoned. And when a Wyoming game warden killed the sow, her coat smelled like pepper. So bear spray works…….if you get it deployed in time.

Now preppers, are you sure you want to re-locate to Wyoming?
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
And the situation involving guide Mark Uptain was just a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances.

It was archery season and the client (from Florida) had killed an elk the previous evening with a crossbow. I believe they got it gutted but the carcass had to stay at the kill site overnight. This is common in the backcountry and people who would say never do that just don’t understand the conditions and circumstances.

They came the next day to get it quartered and ready to pack out. Since it was archery season, it got warm and Uptain removed his shoulder holster and took his outer shirt off to work on the carcass. Soon after that the sow grizzly attacked. They looked up and she was just on them fast.

Uptain took the attack and was trying to get bear spray off his belt while being mauled. While this was going on, the panicked client was trying to figure out what to do. At some point the client got Uptain’s pistol. From there it gets less certain because it’s all the panicked client’s testimony. But the client apparently fumbled with the pistol and ejected the magazine. Then he may have tossed the pistol toward Uptain before fleeing on his horse.

Uptain eventually got his bear spray deployed and it apparently did break the attack but he had already sustained non-survivable injuries. When they found Uptain dead, they recovered his empty pistol and an empty bear spray canister and his body had not been fed on or cached-up with brush, just abandoned. And when a Wyoming game warden killed the sow, her coat smelled like pepper. So bear spray works…….if you get it deployed in time.

Now preppers, are you sure you want to re-locate to Wyoming?
Great points on all of it. Even with my crossbow, I keep a pistol on me.
 

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I don't really understand the point. The revolver article is from 2009. The Glock article is from 2018. Cherry picking articles that support your thesis, I guess? If it were two recent incidents, then that would be something else.

An army soldier just got killed by a bear in Alaska. I guess the Army should go back to revolvers, right?
 

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Another case of getting killed because you failed to have a round in the chamber.

Lots of lessons to be learned.

1)Don't take your weapon off and store it "over there" while field dressing your kill.

2) Don't take your bear spray off while field dressing your kill.

3) Maybe know how to operate, load, and use a semi auto pistol.

The guide is dead because of the limp wristed wussy response of his client. I hope the little wuss has nightmares for life.
 

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As I posted earlier I have had many close encounters with both black and grizzly bear. I've written extensively on this. I've been stalked, bluff charged, even tripped over a small blackie as a kid living in Yosemite. We spend summers in the Rockies and I usually add a few more bear stories each year.

1. You don't have to kill bear. You need to understand them. Before you accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal tree hugger ;) :D I shot my first and only bear at 17 with a .30-30. What I mean, is understand the different reactions of black vs brown (griz) bear.

Black bear will usually (put "usually" in front of most of these comments) run off if you yell and wave arms and don't corner them. Grizzly are just plain mean. They are the apex predator, so show respect. Talk calmly, back away slowly, try to convey you aren't food or a threat. If that doesn't work...

2. I carry Counter Assault bear spray. The big can with a 40 ft fog. Anybody here know Todd Orr up in MT? I've talked with him a few times since his attack. He was attacked twice by a grizzly. In Todd's case the bear ran right through the spray and mauled him. The second time it hit him so fast and hard he lost hold of his gun. Since then I carry TWO cans hiking in grizzly areas.

3. Guns: My opinion - a shotgun or high power rifle is best. 12 ga slugs, .30-06, .45-70, .375h&h, maybe .308 on the low end will be most effective on grizzly. An AK mag dump on full auto would probably work too. Pretty much any gun seems to stop blackies.

But, unless hunting, long guns aren't socially acceptable in many places bear frequent. Carry a shotgun in Yellowstone and tell us how your day goes. ;)

4. My pistol of choice in grizzly/moose areas is a .44 mag Redhawk, usually in a chest rig. But it seems whenever I have a close encounter I'm carrying my Glock 19. So now I carry a spare mag of Buffalo Bore and swap it for my HP defense rounds in grizzly areas. If I lived in Alaska or Montana I'd probably go with a bigger pistol, 10mm, .454, .50 bmg(?). ;) But I can't justify the cost based on our minimal threat level. A .45 with BB is probably adequate too in the lower 48. In black bear country I think anything .38 up will work (usually).

So what is my plan? Carry your tools ready to hand. I keep one can of spray on my chest harness or pack strap. One on my belt or in my hip pocket. Bear spray in left hand, pistol in right. If I had time, to even deploy either, the plan is fire pepper gas at 15 yards (45 ft). If it doesn't turn almost immediately you have maybe 2 seconds, drop spray and fire handgun until empty or dead.

Keep in mind if you think you will shoot a charging grizz with a pistol. Your effective target area is about 12"x24", and it's bouncing up and down about a foot. Good luck until it's pretty close.

Reality is deer, bees and ladders kill more people than bear. In 95% of cases verbal and physical movement will suffice. In 4% spray will solve the problem. In 0.5% a gun will stop the threat.

And the last 0.5%, well the bear wins. :D
 
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