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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As the topic says, i have a hard time deciding which gun to for.
Either the Remington 870 or the Mossberg Pump Special Purpose 590 A1.

Its definitely for hunting purpose and durability matters alot out of a survivalists perspectives.

So what are your experiences and advices ?
Which would be your number 1 pick and formost... why? :)

Edit: Just found the exact same topic here, so feel free to delete this post.
My bad.
 

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Had the mossberg 500 and put thousands of rounds through it mostly shooting skeet :0 ( it was my only shotgun) with my friends. Never ever gave me a problem.
 

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870's have a problem with short cycling the action. The result is a round loading into the carrier, often necessitating a field strip to clear it. Not good. They are picky with Winchester target loads in not wanting to kick them out of the tube. Quality control is not what it should be but their Police Magnum model is a nice gun with features to defeat the short cycling problem. Any 870 can be fixed up. All it takes is money.

The Mossberg 590A1 is easily the more rugged and reliable of the two with a very appropriately placed thumb safety. Very heavy duty system. Many folks are liking a pistol grip on their shotty's and the safety system on a 590A1 is not friendly for that so stay with the rifle type stock.

A Surefire forend light is nice for home defense and will add weight to the forend for very positive cycling. You can also attach a piece of rail for a cheaper and lighter system.

Other than that, the Ghost Ring sights are nice if you shoot a good number of slugs (as I do) and other companies make them for simple installs. A side saddle carrier is certainly handy to load from. I have an 8 shot model from 3 Gun Gear on mine. Don't bother with the Speedfeed shell carrying stock. It don't hold shells in there for crud.
 

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What kind of hunting are we talking here. Remingtons make great bird hunting guns.

Is this the mossberg model with peep sight versus the vented rib sight? If so, this is a horrible choice for bird hunting. Can you shoot some birds with it? Yes, but you'll miss alot more of them. Even worse, you think you missed and you wound them.

Far as big game hunting goes, that mossberg 590 with peep sight will work much better than a vented rib gun. However, you can buy affordable sights that attched to the vented rib, or buy a dedicated slug barrel.

Also, most of those tactical sotcks make for poor bird hunting stocks. That sharp angle edge on the tactical stock will cause two problems. It will end up catching in your jacket and causing a horrible mount. That same edge will not come on smooth with your cheek.

One of the best ways to quickly mount the gun and have it hit where you want is easy. Walk with the muzzle end of the barrel roughly where you're seeing and the rear end lower. Put the stock to your face and let is slide along your cheek until it rests on your shoulder. The sliding back is about 5cm give or take. Some folks do get used to the pocket roll method. The stock stays in your shoulder and you roll the gun upward twoards your face. Not the best method, but it can work decently if you practice it. I would go for this method if you buy a gun with tactical stock.

Both mossberg and remington do not make guns the way they used to. Both of them have their ups and downs. The ideal remington in my opinion is an older early 1990's or older 870 wingmaster. A regular 870 older is fine too. I prefer the shiney blued finsih versus the newer wrinkly duller parkerized finish. The newer ones are made with some powdered metal parts. However, they do hold up a long time. For casual users, under let say 250 rounds a year, it'll last a lifetime. For folks who shoot over 1000 rounds a year, you may need to replace a part or two in either the mossberg or remington ones made these days.

Some folks think this is gun snobbery. However, a shotgun with two barrels has a huge advantage over a gun with 1 barrel. Different chokes. The problem isn't far away targets, it's the close ones. Up close with a tigher choke can cause two problems. It is easier to miss because the pattern is so tight and small at close ranges. If you do happen to have a well placed shot, the bird gets severely damaged by massive amount of shot. the over under or side to side shotguns have one barrel with a wide choke and a second shot with a tighter one.

For newer shooters the close shot is not a problem becuase of the longer period of time to make a shot. Once you get better with a shotgun, it'll be more and more a problem.

Far as pruposes with a shotgun goes, there is only 3 for me. One is home defense, long life durability is not a huge concern with this purpose. The other two purposes are lumped together, although many would think there are two different purposes. Target shooting and hunting. Avid shooter easily shoot over 500 rounds a year. Durability is a big concern to me. My chocie for this purpose is the browning Citori. I bought one used for about the same price as a fancier tactical pump shotgun. This gun has been known to live over 250,000 rounds and still provide reliable service if taken care of properly.

Far as hunting with a shotgun during a survivalist situation. IT will probably never happen with the exception of protecting my garden from small animals. Small game hunting is a good way to loose weight. You walk quite a bit and cover alot of ground. My main purpose for an event like that would be to grow my own food and keep an eye out for my family at home. This has little to do with being far aay from the house.

Hunting will be done, but overall it is a loosing proposition during a major event. Anything with any hunting skill will poach animals to the point of near extinction. In the USA, severla states banned many forms of hunting for over 20 years after the 1930's depression, so wild game populations would recover. Some say in Ohio it took close to 40 years for the deer population to recover from that. Growing food. raising animals, or trapping will be a much wiser way to get food.
 

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zombie response team
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stihl or husqvarna
marlboro or camel
honda or suzuki
chevy or ford
deere or kubota


though the comparison between the 870 and 590 is a better one than 870 vs. 500
 
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(870)"often necessitating a field strip to clear it."
"They are picky with Winchester target loads in not wanting to kick them out of the tube."
Its a funny thing....I own 4 Remington 870's a mix of old and new...and I have NEVER seen any of these problems.... but they happen "often" ?
 

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Human bean of planet Urf
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but they happen "often" ?
Often enough that Remington redesigned the lifter to correct the first and homebrew means of polishing the Express chamber to fix the second are a dime a dozen.

rich
 

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Human bean of planet Urf
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As the topic says, i have a hard time deciding which gun to for.
The 590 is a finished purpose shotgun designed for military and police use. It's not a hunting gun although it can be converted back to the 500 configuration in about two minutes and can then be a hunting gun. The 870 is a hunting gun that can be converted to military and police use. Both are intended for different markets in their original forms. You said you wanted a hunting gun. The 870 fills that bill better than the 590a1.

rich
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Im truly greatfull for all the feedback.
I've learned more from these feedbacks then on any other forum in just a day.
Much appreciated.

A relevant followup question, since i have decided to go for the remington 870 (and ordered it now with an additional slug barrell.
I want to get some good modifications for it to be able to make it more of a hybrid/survivalist gun rather then pure of anything (more versitale).

Do you have any good sites that you can recommend that sells modifications for the 870 that ships outside of the US ( i live in Sweden ) and what parts would you recommend to get/stack up on (parts to replace over time or good mods) ?

Yours sincerely

/M
 

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i know you wanted to compare the 870 to the 590, but like said above the mossberg 500 is more comparable and better in my opinion. for hunting you cant beat the safety on top that the mossberg has. the elevator ( the part that lifts the shells into the chamber when you pull the slide back) is also a better design on the mossberg. my 870 has jammed a handful of times while doing high stress high speed reloads because a shell not fully seated in the tube will spring back underneath the elevator. thus blocking you from loading the gun or operating it. the design of the mossberg elevator has zero chance of this happening. i own both. mossberg hands down
 

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I've got 2 590A1's, one 18.5" barrel 6 shot 5+1 and the other has a 20" barrel and 10 shots 9+1. I would and will hunt with either of them any day all day. The 870 doesn't compare to a 590A1 at all and if you had the chance to handle and shoot both you may have gone the 590A1 route.
 

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I have 1187's and 870's. In my opinion, they really do not need anything to be good for survivalist purposes. Some folks think they need an extended tube. I have seen some reliability issues with them, and I have seen few folks use aftermarket extended tubes.

there is some merit to a short barreled shotgun. However, I personally have little to no desire to buy a shorter barrel. However, my main defense arm is a 1187 youth in 20 gauge. It comes with a 12.5" or so long stock versus the nroma 14.25" long stock. It has a 21" barrel versus the normal 26" barrel on most pump / semiauto shotguns.

For hunting, you'd do well with either a 26 or 28" barrel. I absolutley love my 870 in 20 gauge. It works very well with me. I have yet to beat my best score in trap with a 12 gauge. I am matching it alot these days though. however, this gun works well with me. that's the important thing with shotguns and hunting. No true measure on how a gun will handle for you. Learn where it hits, learn how to make the fit your face the same time everytime, and then learn what correction you need to do when hitting moving targets. I could give you some pointers, but with little to no experience with shotguns it won't help you much.

I will give you two tips when going to the store. The distance between your thumb and your nose should be about 2-3 fingers wide. Pick up the gun, make sure it's unloaded, then bring it to your face several times. See how it lines up with your eye. If your level with the rib nd in the middle (left/right) your going to do better hunting with it. Since your new to shotguns, the way the gun feels in your hands will be a new thing to you. Best off checking out local hunting clubs and asking them to borrow a gun or two and see which one you like.

for new shooters, a mid bead helps out quite a bit. You have the bead on the vented rib at the end of the barrel. Some guns have a smaller bead about mid barrel. This gives you an easy way to check how well the gun is lined up to you. I think the mossberg 500 comes with one. Remington only has them on their premium models like the 870 wingmaster. That's an expensive gun though.

with shotguns, the fit is the rear sight adjustment. As long as your left and right is pretty good, you can make up for up and down difference to some extent. I actually have a gun that shoots about a foot higher than what it should. That difference is really helping me out with trap for some reason lately.
 

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The 590 is a finished purpose shotgun designed for military and police use. It's not a hunting gun although it can be converted back to the 500 configuration in about two minutes and can then be a hunting gun. The 870 is a hunting gun that can be converted to military and police use. Both are intended for different markets in their original forms. You said you wanted a hunting gun. The 870 fills that bill better than the 590a1.

rich
A 590a1 barrel and mag tube can be put on a 500, or even a maverick 88.
 

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I've got 2 590A1's, one 18.5" barrel 6 shot 5+1 and the other has a 20" barrel and 10 shots 9+1. I would and will hunt with either of them any day all day. The 870 doesn't compare to a 590A1 at all and if you had the chance to handle and shoot both you may have gone the 590A1 route.
The bottom one is purdier, but i do like the spx/lpa sights!!
 

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Mossberg 590 A1 is an awesome shotgun. Been carrying one for years. I really do like it. Mine also has ghost ring sights on it. Both is always better but the 590 A1 would be my preference.
 

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A 590a1 barrel and mag tube can be put on a 500, or even a maverick 88.
Yep. That's what I meant about converting a 590 to a 500 for hunting. Replace that 590 extended mag tube with a 500 tube and you get a half dozen distinctly diff barrels to use for diff purposes. That's what makes a 500 better than an 870 in the long run in my opinion.

rich
 

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From looks of that 590 A1, it will take gunsmith work to make it accept 500 mossberg barrels. Look at the two rings that the magazine tube attach to the barrel. That first ring is where the 500 mossberg magazine tube ends. The 590A1 goes to the second ring near the end of the barrel. Those magazine tubes do not thread into the reciever, atleast far as i know. They are likely press fit and you will probably damage the old one taking it out.

Now let's compare mossberg and remington hunting guns. The big difference is the safety. The remington 870 has the safety by the trigger gaurd. Many types of rifles have the safety at that position. The mossberg has it on the upper rear section of the reciever. Pretty easy for your thumb to turn the safety on and off. If you're planning to hunt with the safety on, the 500 will be easier to release at quick notice, like a bird flys out of cover without any notice.

I love my remington 870. However, I own a browning Citori over under and it has the mossberg styled safety. It is a nice plus.

Far as reliability goes. I have seen more jambs with mossberg 500's than remington guns. Though when I have seen either, the gun was not taken care of properly.

Overall, ribbed shotgun shells help with reliability. I shoot smooth one for hunting because I like those hulls for reloading. However, for Home Defense purposes, I use ribbed ones. I have yet to have a problem with smooth finish hulls in my shotgun.

I did polish my chamber on my 11-87 youth shotgun. However, the 21" barrel has less gas time to cycle the piston than with 26" and longer barrel models.

Another thing to keep in mind. What law enforcement uses. I see mainly 12" barreled 870 remingtons in police cars. They use the short barrel for one main reason, it's easy to get in and out of cars or car windows with these shot guns. They actually have less ammunition capacity than your standard hunting shotgun. They find the reduced capacity sufficient, so don't feel too bad with only 5 or 6 shots. They only got 4.
 

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Yep. That's what I meant about converting a 590 to a 500 for hunting. Replace that 590 extended mag tube with a 500 tube and you get a half dozen distinctly diff barrels to use for diff purposes. That's what makes a 500 better than an 870 in the long run in my opinion.

rich
the only thing i do not like about a 500 is that u cant just screw on a mag extention. it requires replacing the whole magazine and barrel for more capacity. i wish the knoxx sidewinder detachable magazines were still around and not so $$$
 
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