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Why do you ask? 2 Dogs!
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Discussion Starter #1
I have an over-abundance of magnum small pistol primers. I do use these for my 357 in all loads

I thought I'd try loading 9mm with these

I started out at the customary 10% lower charge. Which is where you want to start when using magnum primers in standard pistol cartridges <Note**

I'm using Bullseye powder and 115gr and 124gr bullets

About every 5 rounds or so, I had a stovepipe (perfect stove pipe I might add):D:

Back to the drawing board....

Next up will a 5% lower charge



One thing I love about the 357, you don't have to do this! Semi autos are just sooo sensitive :D:
 

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What hell, pay attention
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Ive always used magnum primers interchangeably if I couldnt get the standard and never had any issues.

I use either Unique or 231 with my 9mm loads, and while they arent loaded a max, they arent far from it. I dont reduce the load because of the primers.

Seems to me, the mag primers are usually used with the slower burning powders. Even then, Ive used standard primers with loads that called for magnum, and never had any issues either.

The only thing I really have noticed is, with the 357's, they drive the bullet firmly into the forcing cone/barrel when the case splits and/or the crimp wasnt gut en tight and the powder charge didnt have a chance to fully light. Get out the squib rod. :rolleyes:
 

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Premium Member
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Could have zero to do with the primer
The 9mm is a fairly high-pressure round
You may need a hotter load
With a slightly tapered case, the 9mm is not a straight-wall crank them out deal sometimes
I know some reloaders hate them, but most like the Lee Factory Crimp Die
Fantastic with jacketed/copper bullets
With over-SAAMI spec diameter lead-alloy bullets the Lee FCD can problematic and swage the bullet
The Lee FCD can solve many problems
 

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Why do you ask? 2 Dogs!
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13,596 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Could have zero to do with the primer
The 9mm is a fairly high-pressure round
You may need a hotter load
You are correct I think, I'm going for more powder

I shot several different loads yesterday without issue. Using standard loadings out of Speer #10 with 90gr Gold Dots, 115gr FMJ, 124gr FMJ and 147gr Gold Dots

All ran fine but I was using standard primers and a full charge of Bullseye

Only issues I had were the ones with mag primers and where I had reduced the charge

I really liked the 90gr Gold Dots, very accurate as compared to the others. The 147gr Gold Dots gave the worst accuracy.....by only 2" or so. Some of that could have been me :D:

All shots were at 15yds
 

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What hell, pay attention
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9mm is an easy round to load, and I load about 20-25k of it a year these days.

I use Hornady dies with a taper crimp for most pistol calibers (that helped with my 357's a lot too). Never had any issues. Ive pretty much switched over to them for most of what I load, rifle and handgun.

The thing I like the most about them is, they have an alignment sleeve in the seating die that gets the bullet correctly aligned as you start to seat it, and makes for a lot fewer problems, especailly when your loading a lot and just banging away.

On the recommendation of a couple of people in the past, when they first came out, I tried the Lee Factory Crimps on a couple of rifle calibers, and they made things pretty dramatically worse than better.

When I pulled a few rounds later, trying to figure out what was going on, the bullets (SMK's) were obviously deformed by the crimp.

That all went away when I went back to what I was doing prior (using the standard crimp in the seating die) and accuracy returned.
 

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Why do you ask? 2 Dogs!
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Discussion Starter #7
Id be willing to bet, reducing the load is where the problem lies.
Agreed^^^^

I'll reduce by 5% which will put me right between the top listed load and the bottom listed load

I've always used the top listed load out of the Speer manual and never had any issues....but that was using standard primers.

I just have a little apprehension about using the mag primers and the top listed loading

My Hornady manual has hotter loadings w/Bullseye than Speer in the 9mm, I may use them next
 

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What hell, pay attention
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Its amazing how much discrepancy there is between the manuals. I use Speer, Hornady and Sierra.

Speer almost always seems to be the hotter of the three, and often by a good bit, and Hornady the most conservative, and sometimes there, you have to wonder.

Ive seen a couple of Speers starting loads that Hornady said were at or approaching max. Kind of crazy.

I think as long as youre not running at the max (especially Speer's :)), and watching for pressure signs, youll be fine.
 

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Premium Member
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9mm is an easy round to load, and I load about 20-25k of it a year these days.

I use Hornady dies with a taper crimp for most pistol calibers (that helped with my 357's a lot too). Never had any issues. Ive pretty much switched over to them for most of what I load, rifle and handgun.

The thing I like the most about them is, they have an alignment sleeve in the seating die that gets the bullet correctly aligned as you start to seat it, and makes for a lot fewer problems, especailly when your loading a lot and just banging away.

On the recommendation of a couple of people in the past, when they first came out, I tried the Lee Factory Crimps on a couple of rifle calibers, and they made things pretty dramatically worse than better.

When I pulled a few rounds later, trying to figure out what was going on, the bullets (SMK's) were obviously deformed by the crimp.

That all went away when I went back to what I was doing prior (using the standard crimp in the seating die) and accuracy returned.
This is a problem
Let's keep it real
I respect the member who posted this, but
I will say it again, if you really want good advice/information about firearms/reloading
This is the wrong place
Go to a specialized forum

The Lee Factory Crimp rifle dies are collet dies
The pistol dies are not collet crimp dies
Not using a roll crimp on .357 mag, except for weak plinking loads is a recipe for failure in a revolver
You never want a bullet to jump crimp in a revolver
Problem especially in Ruger LCRs especially the 9mms
I have them

This post could go on and on, but I suggest you completely ignore that post, as it is just plain wrong on so many levels.

I have special ordered revolver Lee FCDs for .357 mag, .45 Colt which are collet dies, not what I recommended for you. The revolver collet FCDs are fantastic for lead-alloy bullets, but some machine them down to make them even better.

Go to Midway USA or wherever and read actual owner/user reviews
If you are using jacketed/plated bullets the Lee FCD for pistols can only help you

F#@&
Why post bad and completely wrong information
Normally that is a solid member
 

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Why do you ask? 2 Dogs!
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13,596 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Its amazing how much discrepancy there is between the manuals. I use Speer, Hornady and Sierra.

Speer almost always seems to be the hotter of the three, and often by a good bit, and Hornady the most conservative, and sometimes there, you have to wonder.

Ive seen a couple of Speers starting loads that Hornady said were at or approaching max. Kind of crazy.

I think as long as youre not running at the max (especially Speer's :)), and watching for pressure signs, youll be fine.
I know it's crazy right! Sometimes I take a double take then research the others

I use Speer, Hornady and Nosler. Speer by far has the hotter loads except in the 9mm in which case the Hornady is higher

My Nosler is the most conservative. I've been looking to buy the newest Sierra




Jack: I'd had mixed results with the FCD. In my bolt rifles, it hasn't worked so well, in those I use a taper crimp just heavy enough to hold the bullet but then I'm loading for extreme accuracy and have the bullet seated just shy of the rifling

I will agree though it's preferred in cartridges where you're loading bullets without cannelures and in those actions that aren't bolt (e.g. semi auto, lever)

In revolvers I always use a generous roll crimp, I've not tried an FCD mainly because I don't have one.

I'll look into one for the 9mm. I bought a Lee set many years ago for the 9 but it didn't come with one
 

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Premium Member
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I use the Redding Profile Crimp (roll crimp) dies and the Lee special order Collet dies
For revolvers
Redding taper crimp dies on a lot of cartridges
In a magazine, you do not need a serious crimp
In a tube-magazine or revolver serious crimp
Also, not discussed is powder ignition and an adequate crimp
Most of my molds of late are for Hi-Tek/Powder-Coat so they are smooth-sided
The revolver collet dies will crimp these smooth-sided bullets, easily unlike othe roll crimp dies

Most of my dies are Redding, CH4D, RCBS and Lee Precision
A lot of people love Hornady dies
I cannot comment other than to say, a lot of people love Hornady dies
I have no doubt they work real good
 

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If I recall correctly, the first common Magnum Primer was Federal 215 at the request of Roy Weatherby for his 378 Magnum. Over the years, Winchester for one, dithered back and forth re. Standard vs. Magnum primers. There are/were Standard primers with more brisance than some Magnum primers. Then of course there's the "Mil-Spec" primers encountered these days. I've never used anything but Standard primers no matter the cartridge to include "hard to light" powders such as the 870's e.g.

You want to make money, offer your end user, within reason, anything they might want or think they need. While we're at it, the FCD is subject to end user misuse, either through ignorance or "hold my beer". At least in the past, just about every seating die, both rifle and handgun, had crimp features built into them.
 

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What hell, pay attention
Joined
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7,988 Posts
This is a problem
Let's keep it real
I respect the member who posted this, but
I will say it again, if you really want good advice/information about firearms/reloading
This is the wrong place
Go to a specialized forum

The Lee Factory Crimp rifle dies are collet dies
The pistol dies are not collet crimp dies
Not using a roll crimp on .357 mag, except for weak plinking loads is a recipe for failure in a revolver
You never want a bullet to jump crimp in a revolver
Problem especially in Ruger LCRs especially the 9mms
I have them

This post could go on and on, but I suggest you completely ignore that post, as it is just plain wrong on so many levels.

I have special ordered revolver Lee FCDs for .357 mag, .45 Colt which are collet dies, not what I recommended for you. The revolver collet FCDs are fantastic for lead-alloy bullets, but some machine them down to make them even better.

Go to Midway USA or wherever and read actual owner/user reviews
If you are using jacketed/plated bullets the Lee FCD for pistols can only help you

F#@&
Why post bad and completely wrong information
Normally that is a solid member
I havent had a lick of trouble with my 357's using the taper crimp die. Not one. And most of my crimp related problems have gone away as well. Havent had a squib since I started using one either.

Dont know what the difference is in what we are doing, but thats whats been working for me, and its working well.

I shoot a fairly warm 158 grain (plated and jacketed) 357 load out of my 357's in practice and have yet to have a bullet jump the crimp or move forward, at least that Ive noticed. Havent had a jumped crimp that tied up the gun in years, and the last time it happened, it was with roll crimp dies. None of the taper crimp rounds have tied the gun up. Accuracy is good too.

The load I use isnt a screamer, but its not a plinker either, you know youre shooting a 357 when it goes off. All of my 38/357 revolvers are DA, and I shoot them all DAO. Id know right away if there was a problem with bullets moving under recoil.

Ive pretty much stopped using Lee's reloading stuff altogether too.Sold most that I had off. Might be fine for getting started, but once you use better stuff, you understand why its better.

Never used the FCD on a handgun, and I said it was rifles I had trouble with.

What I posted works for me, and I shoot and load that stuff on a two to three times a month basis, and have been doing so using that taper crimp die, for a couple of years now.

YMMV, but theres no way Im going back to a roll crimp for it.
 

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As a test I loaded some 9mm with standard CCI sp and CCI mp and ran them over my chronograph, velocity was identical, I was using win 231 powder. Many IPSC shooters use small rifle primers in 38 Super.
 

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Always Loaded
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Could be a number of things. As long as you are not loading a max charge, I would see no need to reduce. I'm still trying to dial in my Glock 17 with suppressed loads. I'm on my 2nd striker spring, 2nd recoil spring, and 3rd barrel. Still not running 100% with my 147 gr cast loads. 9MM can be a hassle with that tapered case.
 

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As a test I loaded some 9mm with standard CCI sp and CCI mp and ran them over my chronograph, velocity was identical, I was using win 231 powder. Many IPSC shooters use small rifle primers in 38 Super.
This...

I stopped stocking SPP years ago and switched to SRP for pretty much everything.
 

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Why do you ask? 2 Dogs!
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13,596 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Well I just loaded 100 with a .4 increase of Bulleseye

My previous load was 4.2, now I'm at 4.6

A lot of the online data, even from Alliant shows anywhere from 4.2 to 4.6 being the top loads for 115gr bullets

My manual shows top load at 5.0grs with standard primers

We'll see how they work.


Bad news is, as I was digging through my ammo stores, I found another 100rnds of the previous load. I guess I need to shoot them up too, stove pipes and all :upsidedown:
 
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