All I can rely on is what's in my gun closet.

Its sort of simple, if you use the ammo it will run out eventually without re-supply. Realistically, people are prepping for "time" when they stock ammo.

Also, if you survive ONE armed encounter, you're doing good. TWO and you're tempting fate. (as a civilian not searching out encounters) Long term, on a "patrol" environment, you may be talking a few hundred rounds a year in missed shots, hits, and/or warning shots.

By this thinking, 99% of your stored ammo is actually for practice (without ability to buy more) and trade.


* Hunting is separate from this discussion IMO

Oh, and my calibers are:

.308
5.56/.223
12 gauge
9mm
.45
.22

-- Just meat and potatoes, nothin' fancy.

 

I too thought x39 was common but I tell you what... I've been looking for 3 weeks now for some in Tula, and EVERY WALMART (6) in the capital region has been sold out since the middle of november. WTF.

 

http://www.luckygunner.com/rifle/7.62x39mm-ammo

 

Based on what's moved through the shop, and in no particular order, if you're scavenging in a suburban/urban area you'd be most likely to find:
.22LR
9mm
12 ga
.223

 

In the days of the musket, people got by with making a well-aimed shot and needed to conserve their ammunition as they simply couldn't carry much powder and ball. Today we have the luxury of having a rifle with a magazine that contains more shots than poor Davy Crocket had on his person perhaps.
One careful shot will get the job done. Some people simply do not have the discipline to wait for the right time to shoot. Learning this discipline will allow your stash of ammunition to always be large.

 

I see your point and I agree... When it comes to hunting.

In much of combat, suppressive fire is a key element to increase your odds of victory.

 

Thanks for the input Grevlin,
you made some very valid points, personaly but I cant see myself "camping" or hunkering down in Los Angeles, I will need to get the hell out of town. I think a arsenal is only really valuable if you are in a area or position where you do not have to get mobile. LA is not going to be one of those places, it will get bugsht here and quickly.

I do think people need to prepare for thier enviroment, be it Urban, Suburban or Rural. Different factors may apply. In my enviroment, being Mobile is what will keep me alive.

 

Where exactly do you plan on going? If you have a far off BOL, I can understand hitting the road and being prepared for the extended journey. But if you don't have a destination, you are in deep doo doo.

A lot of people seem to think they can bug out, even if they don't know where they're going. I think this will end up being a poor decision, if things ever get bad enough to warrant it.

 

Speaking of which, when I get Mobile, all weapons not in transit will be disarmed and the parts scattered. That way I can ensure that they will not fall into unsavory hands.

 

Where exactly do you plan on going? If you have a far off BOL, I can understand hitting the road and being prepared for the extended journey. But if you don't have a destination, you are in deep doo doo.

A lot of people seem to think they can bug out, even if they don't know where they're going. I think this will end up being a poor decision, if things ever get bad enough to warrant it.

Escape routes already mapped out, planned and traveled in the dark of night. 1st stop is a safe house with other like-minded folks , from where we progress to safe house #2.....from that point we make it to a general meeting place at the foothills of the mountians. Vehicles are staged and stored.

I agree with you , the worst plan is not really having one, which is dangerous in its own right. Leave nothing unattended and try to forsee all possible outcomes.

 

Unless there is a lot of public land where people plan to bug out, I envisage many irate land owners. Imagine waking up and seeing many groups of people camped out on your property, cutting trees for fuel, hunting, digging latrines etc.? It is possible to give a helping hand to a few people but imagine the population of California alone evacuating to the other states. Their population is higher than Canada's. Add Mexicans into the mix.
A BOL is a good idea, preferably purchased.
But, to stay on topic, a small sturdy plastic bag can contain 500 loose rounds of 45ACP. Not that heavy. 556 in ten mags for 300 rounds is also not that heavy and will last a long time if used wisely.

 

Everyone think about this:
1. If you are out hunting you are 10 times more likely to see small game than large game. A 22 rimfire would be your best bet.

2. If you are out and backpacking,hiking,or just shearching, and you have to carry all your goods with you. You can carry a very large amount of 22 rimfire
where as you could only carry a small amount of the large calibers.

3. No body is going to be able to just walk up to you and harm you with a 22 rimfire, You still have a weapon that can take down a human. Also the mental aspect of your advisarys hearing a gun shot at them will make them think twice or take cover.

4. If you really want to live long term SHTF you will avoid conflict at all cost,you will not engage in combat unless cornered, you will retreat or hide when you can to avoid confrontation. Trying to fight in fire fights will reduce your chances of survival if you play the odds. If you get shot, or just wounded your done for, because there are no hospitals.

5.You can buy 22 rimfire pre SHTF (right now) for about $20 or so per 1000.
This way you can buy it cheap and stack it deep.

6. A 22 rimfire rifle itself is usually lighter weight than larger center fire rifles, making the rifle itself easier to carry.

7. The 22 rimfire bullets will probably be one of the easyist calibers to find come post SHTF.

If you decide to bug in and stay put at your home or BOL and do not plan on traveling then a larger caliber could be used along with a 22 rimfire for a distinct advantage.
Anyway you look at it the 22 rimfire is the best survival gun. IMHO

 

Good question –

The practical reality is you need enough ammo to have brief tactical encounters. All your weaponry should have one purpose – allow a retreat and regroup. Really nothing else, don’t plan to take from another and don’t plan to have a sustained firefight. The fact is, no matter how “dug in” a person is, a few gallons of gas will resolve the “situation” .

However, ammo prices also continue to climb in price so, ammo can actually be a pretty good physical asset to have. ( good – not great)

 

There is ammo for storing and ammo for carrying. How much for storing? However much space/money you have without shorting other preps is the right answer. It needs to be stored where you plan to be, whether that be home or BOL.

For carrying, a standard combat load is 210-300 rounds. However, that is for combat troops expect to engage and stay engaged until they win or are vanquished.

In SHTF if you get into a firefight away from your home/BOL your first thought should be to *disengage*. If you get shot you do not have a chopper to whisk you off to a clean hospital. speed of movement is better than firepower in that situation. I'd think a rifle with three mags and a pistol with two would be about right.

 

If the SHTF I cant see myself lugging around 1000 or even 500 rounds of my favorite caliber. Let alone being able to find additional ammunition when needed. That's why people should take a serious look at a .22 caliber rifle. If they want more of a punch they could consider the .22 magnum, and still carry a thousand rounds easily. IMO

 

Well I would not have to lug it all around. Simple answer Cache it now so you dont have to be without. Also with it underground its safe from fires,thief's, and also the major problem people have with ammo. Getting into it and lying to yourself you will replace it later. Buy in bulk and store it well.

 

If I can drive to the BOL Ill take it all who cares?

If I have to walk its 4 mags in a bag and one in the rifle soooo 150 rounds ready to go.

I have ammo at the BOL so I dont really have all that much extra to take

plus I have a pistol with two extra mags so I think I am pretty well covered for the short trip I have to take plus I am not walking alone!

 

This particular site rates these as the top 10 most popular rifle cartridges, though I really would question the accuracy of it. This doesn't seem to be correct on the east coast.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/readers_choice_rifle_cartridges.htm

 

I have a feeling they polled a hunting or medium-large game shooters type organization for those numbers. Or they used some other weird math to get there, like number of rifles in circulation or something Note its all hunting rounds.

If you went by "what wall mart sells the most of" it would most certainly probably not include any of those besides 308 & 30-06 & .223.

 

Depends on what kind of situation.
If you mean total all out civil war road warrior?
I couldnt even guess but I would think all ammo will be hard to get.
You could have some stashed and get some out as you need it but when you have to leave the area take as much as you can.
Who knows what the future holds.

 

SHTF can mean many things. I stock enough ammo to keep me proficient, +spouse and kids. Working on enough for potential grandkids.
.gov can impose a ridiculous tax on ammo. Or a ban on lead and you can now only purchase $$$$ substitute. Back door gun control.

If society breaks down, you will NEED to practice daily to get up to speed and weekly to keep the skills. Where will that ammo come from?

 

I would point out our history....back in our ancestors' time, ammo was scarce. Most regarded ammo more than Gold. Every shot was accounted for and had better either brought food to the table or saved a life. They probably considered 5 shots a year to be excessive. I imagine PSHTF to be the same way. IMO, it's not so much how much you have, but how you regard and treat what you DO have. I have .223 and .45, but they're converted to .22 and I have several thousand .22, so I will use .22 for 99% of the time and save the other for emergencies. YMMV

 

First ammo banned

Around the planet, the first ammo banned, the ammo that will get you jail time under a totalitarian government, the ammo first confiscated is military ammo (especially currently-issued calibers). Most governments do not want their soldiers walking off with / selling military ammo to civilians who own weapons in military calibers.

If there comes an across-the-board ban on weapons and ammunition, then an all-out civil war will ensue. Kind'a goes without saying.

First things banned will, of course, be "assault rifles" and the ammo for these "terrorist"/"nutcase" weapons. "Evil handgun" calibers demonized then banned will be 9mm first, then .45s, then all handguns.

The last-to-goes will be the rimfire rounds and 20ga shotguns / ammo. Also, one may be able to get a permit to own "obsolete" weapons and/or collector weapons. I read a heartbreaking story of a British WWII veteran who was deemed unable to possess a weapon and his Enfield rifle had to be either demilitarized (chamber welded unusable) or confiscated.

In many areas of the country, these laws will be utterly un-enforceable. In many urban areas, the sheeple will roll over. I live in one of the latter areas, so I'm bugging out -- and probably long before it gets to this point.

 

add 30-30 to the list. maybe 20 ga also.
beart in mind that in shtf money may be useless and besides sporting goods/ammo shops will be picked dry in no time of all they have. if the govt doesn't shut them down post haste.
so barter/trade maybe the only way to acquire more ammo.
as said before haveing 2-300 rounds for each firearm you own on hand is wise. pistols maybe a couple-3 boxes will suffice. particulat your 'hide-out' or 'pocket rocket' handgun mine is a .32 beretta. I have 4 boxes of fmj for it.

 

I am in agreement with everyone on the .22. I have made some pvc 1 1/2" x 1' tubes with one end removable via screw out plug for BO. You can carry almost 700 rounds of .22 versus 100 rounds of 9mm. Before I sold all my .45 inventory I think the same tube roughly carried ~70 rounds.

 

I have been tooling around here for a little bit and have yet to stumble across a thread that deals specificly with Ammunition in a realistic enviroment.

So in a Urban Enviroment, lets talk about the reality of the most common forms of Ammo one will run into ...

I am still trying to figure out why people think that they are going to "come across" or "run into" ammo strewn all over the urban landscape in the event of the SHTF.

Ain't gonna happen. We aren't playing Splinter Cell here.

Whatever ammo you are able to stock before SHTF is the ammo you are going to have after SHTF.

 

That is the whole point of this conversation......
(Paragraph Deleted out of respect)

Ammo strewn all over the place? Who knows maybe you will run up on corpses that have ammo....or a old hunting cabin. I am not talking about video games scenerios, hell I dont even play them...I am a realist. I havnt been on this site for long but I have noticed one crucial flaw here:

People seem to think that thier enviroment is the only enviroment a person will encounter, and so base their logic on thier own immediate surroundings when giving advice..

I was taught to prepare for anything. I am in a urban setting, not the suburbs, not a farmhouse, not a cardboard box hidden under leaves in the woods, but a Urban Setting. I have the potential to be surrounded by alot of ugly batsht crazy people very quickly. I have already had 1st hand experience of SHTF during the LA Riots. Been there, done that.

Much will depend on how much sht hits and how big the fan is...this discussion is probaly best left to people who can either think outside thier own enviroments or live in a big congested city and understand its obstacles. Hence the term "Urban".

(Subnote: I see alot of fear from people also regarding the military and the police, as a person who knows many of those just mentioned, 80% of your fear is unrational, it isnt going to be them you are going to really be fearing in a Urban SHTF enviroment )

 

I agree with snowdog650. People are gonna panick and ammo will be picked clean ( not that I blame them). I always wonder how local gunshops are gonna fair? Food and water will disapper quicker, but bullets and probably guns will go almost as quick. Scary thoughts! I'm not the hoard 10,000 rounds per rifle guy, I can't afford it. That's what it comes down to for many of us. Not quantity, but what we can afford at the end of the week. But any small supply will put you ahead of the game. I say pick your typical survival battery and crame away as much as you can. 10,000 rounds or 50, at least you thought ahead and did what you could. I feel that if your out looking for ammo for your guns after a SHTF event, your endangering yourself and a day too late!

 

For every survival SHTF scenario someone thinks they will never come across ammo, outside what they have gathered themselves.....there is another realistic scenario that will in fact provide ammo from numerous sources.

--- Eagle Six

 

I agree with this. There are several ways I see ammuntion becoming available in a SHTF scenario.

1. Trading with others for food, water, gas, shelter etc.
2. Stealing it from others.(lets face it, everyone wants to be nice, unlikely to happen)
3. Taking it off corpses
4. scaveging for it.(this means youd have to leave your home/BOL and opens you up to danger from a variety of means).

Either way its possible. I think the idea that some have of stocking up indefinitely is good in theory but in the end if they have to move out of their location then it will become a burden.

 

Handgun: 9mm, .40 SW, .38 sp, .22 LR
Rifle/carbine: 8mm, 9mm, .22 LR, 7.62x39
Shotgun: 12 gauge

Got a couple of hundred rounds for each of the above. Capability to reload 8mm, 9mm, 38 sp, 40 sw and 7.62x39. Looking to do shotgun reloading soon. The biggest issue with .22 or rimfire in general is that it is not easily reloadable, once you shoot it, it is gone.