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Wow, awesome, straight from someone who is actually doing all they can to survive
 

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I'm actually heartbroken after reading this. I don't understand why people do the things they do (control for money, power, religion). But much more enlightened. I'm so glad I quite eating meat a year ago (except for the so called meat in ravioli & beef stew). This is an eye opener. I'll bet these people never thought something like this could happen.

How many in the U.S. think this couldn't happen to us?

I need to better prepare. Thank you for posting this.
 

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I'm not impressed. The auther suggests using dowsing rods to find water, and treats water purification tablets like they're alien technology.
 

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Dowsing rods have been a way to find water for hundreds of years. May not be effect or efficient for you but it is still a viable method.
 

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Dowsing rods have been a way to find water for hundreds of years. May not be effect or efficient for you but it is still a viable method.
Not IMO. It's not based on any known scientific principles. It's never been proven by scientific study. You'd think that after hundreds of years, if it was a viable method that anyone could use, it would have achieved a higher status that of the hokus-pocus most people consider it - myself included. I won't rule it out as impossible... but if I were teaching someone skills necessary to survive, playing with bent sticks would be pretty far down my list of priorites.
 

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Not to hijack the thread, but even nowdays a lot of the well digger guys with the big truck mounted drill will use a dowsing stick. Amazing but true.

Oh, and very interesting link. This is useful stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm not impressed. The auther suggests using dowsing rods to find water, and treats water purification tablets like they're alien technology.
Good for you :thumb: I didn’t post this link to impress and I dare say the author didn’t write to impress but to educate. If you can take one thing away after reading as having learnt something new I would say Job done :D: If not then your better prepared than I and I dare say alot of others too. (thats a general YOU/YOUR not aimed at anyone specific)

Written in Sarajevo, between April of 1992 and April of 1993, and distributed in trade paperback by Workman Press of New York, this manuscript is part of a multifold project by FAMA, triggered during the siege of Sarajevo.
Prior to joining the army in 94 purification tablets were alien technology to me too. These people had been living as a second world country, so for the most part people were still in touch with their more bumpkin country brothers and sisters than we in the west. The war dropped them back to almost a 3rd world country I say “almost” but in truth in parts it was on par with a 3rd world country.

As far as water dousing/ divining goes scientific or not people have been doing it for hundreds of years some with more success than others, so I wouldnt argue for its effectivness or not but if they're doing it and it works for them (otherwise they wouldnt keep doing it) then what can ya say? :confused: it works for them :rain
 

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No offense... but the thread of this title is 'Real Survival Info', even though it hardly contains any information that's helpful in that regard. Exactly what is to be learned from his/her writings that any of us shouldn't know already? The only thing close to being educational is the short paragraph on food storage. And frankly - these aren't the most efficient methods. The bulk of the writing - from what I can see - is nothing more than someone's perspective on 'the way things are'. Interesting to some extent - but not really useful.

As for the dowsing rods... believe what you want. I seriously doubt any of the defenders of the pratice on this thread could go out right now & use it to find water. Otherwise... you would have said "I've used dowsing rods before to find water, and they work!". It's bad enough to stake your survival on real skills you've learned at an academic level but never practiced. Now you're adding magic into the mix too? LOL. Good luck!
 

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As for the dowsing rods... believe what you want. I seriously doubt any of the defenders of the pratice on this thread could go out right now & use it to find water. Otherwise... you would have said "I've used dowsing rods before to find water, and they work!". It's bad enough to stake your survival on real skills you've learned at an academic level but never practiced. Now you're adding magic into the mix too? LOL. Good luck!
I had a dowser out here before I drilled my well. He told me where to drill, how deep the water was, and how much flow I'd get.

He was right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No offense... but the thread of this title is 'Real Survival Info', even though it hardly contains any information that's helpful in that regard. Exactly what is to be learned from his/her writings that any of us shouldn't know already? The only thing close to being educational is the short paragraph on food storage. And frankly - these aren't the most efficient methods. The bulk of the writing - from what I can see - is nothing more than someone's perspective on 'the way things are'. Interesting to some extent - but not really useful.
Check out the post's made by the "Post apoclyptic snipers" and "Armchair commando's" and the people who ask about apartment survival and see instead of what you can take away from some of this what they could. Such as
It is adapted to the potential sources of danger. Corridors and living rooms have been turned into wood sheds. Hosts and visitors sit around the stove, feed it and stare into the fire. Everything is within reach: books, tea cups, clothes, water, food. Everyone is ready to run onto the staircase at the sound of a grenade, or into the basement, if there is one.
In the basement everyone has a place, either one that was fought for or one that had to be accepted. This space is ruled by the laws of community. Basements and staircases are special territories.
I'll admit this is written from one persons perspective but its one person who HAS lived shtf.

Viable and valuble trades
Watch repairmen are working, as are the opticians, locksmiths, electricians, plumbers, carpenters--they will visit your home, if only you can find them. Be ready to pay in hard currency.
The UN seem to be hated or feared or BOTH states side yet
The United Nations Protection Forces were awaited as saviors when they first arrived in Bosnia and Herzegovina with their white vehicles and blue berets. As time went on they proved to be powerless. They help in repairs of the infrastructure, in cleaning the city. They are also establishing bureaucratic rules of their own. In some instances proven to be good merchants, they are driving around in trucks, jeeps, transporters...They transport wounded, bring humanitarian aid, drive from and to the airport. In short, nothing is done without them.
Well I took something away from this even if you did not, Ive been prepping, learning and practicing since 98 guess Youve got it all sown up chubby so I'll stop posting and just await your threads and learn from the master.
 

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I had a dowser out here before I drilled my well. He told me where to drill, how deep the water was, and how much flow I'd get.

He was right.
And when we had our well dug, the driller told us the same information - not because he used dowsing rods, but because he had dug other wells in the area we lived in and therefore had a working knowledge of the water table. :rolleyes:

In MOST cases, the water table doesn't change a whole lot over a vast spread of land. Predicting where water can be found aint that hard if you're somewhat familiar with the area.

I'm sure alot of people buy into the 'art' when they're told they'll hit water if they dig 'here' and they do. But how many people drop a hole where the dowser wasn't picking up anything just to prove him wrong? Think about it.
The only way he or she can be 'wrong' is if water isn't found. And in a pre-existing community where well-water is depended upon, the chances that water won't be found are likely pretty slim.

I still haven't heard any one of you step up & say "I've used it and know it to work". Yet you speak as if it was scientific fact. If you're going to defend a practice - especially one that's not even taken seriously by the scientific mainstream... don't you think you should at least have a working knowledge of the subject?
 

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Check out the post's made by the "Post apoclyptic snipers" and "Armchair commando's" and the people who ask about apartment survival and see instead of what you can take away from some of this what they could. Such as
This would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. Ok... let's examine that passage you quoted in detail (speaking of an apartment building) and see what we can learn:

It is adapted to the potential sources of danger. Corridors and living rooms have been turned into wood sheds. Hosts and visitors sit around the stove, feed it and stare into the fire.

Because they planned to? Because creating a fire hazard is a good survival strategy? NO! It's because they're stuck living in a shelled-out building, apparently haven't created any other options for themselves, and are trying to stay warm. Do you really need to be taught to huddle around a fire when you're cold? Isn't that common-freakin' sense? Is 'fire staring' a skill I need to be taught. Perhaps one of the hosts' time would be better spent posting guard, or fortifying their living quarters.

Everything is within reach: books, tea cups, clothes, water, food.

As opposed to what? Distributed at numerous warehouses? On order from Sears? Of course it's within reach! A ****load of refugees huddled in a tiny living space pretty much mandates that kind of living.

Everyone is ready to run onto the staircase at the sound of a grenade, or into the basement, if there is one.

I'm glad I read that! Without instruction, I'm sure I would have thought that heavy metal sphere that landed in my lap was a nerf ball.

In the basement everyone has a place, either one that was fought for or one that had to be accepted. This space is ruled by the laws of community. Basements and staircases are special territories.

So are you considering this a model for your group? "Ok guys... we're now going to divy up space. Larry, Michelle... you're up. First one to knock the other unconcious gets the space next to water heater".

Or are you so naive to the ways of the world that you don't envision strife & tension when cramming a bunch of hungry, downtrodden people in a basement?

Once again - this article isn't describing skilled survivalists... it's documenting the plight of the ordinary citizen that likely wasn't prepared at all, and is making do now the best they know how (which isn't very good). It doesn't outline techniques to stay alive. It outlines what most people do in the face of adversity... freeze. These people aren't alive because building an indoor woodshed made them that way. They're alive because they haven't been shot yet. Chance. Fate. That's it.

I'm sorry. If there was a way to not sound condescending on this thread I would. But the way I see it - it's impossible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Once again - this article isn't describing skilled survivalists... it's documenting the plight of the ordinary citizen that likely wasn't prepared at all, and is making do now the best they know how (which isn't very good). It doesn't outline techniques to stay alive. It outlines what most people do in the face of adversity... freeze. These people aren't alive because building an indoor woodshed made them that way. They're alive because they haven't been shot yet. Chance. Fate. That's it.

I'm sorry. If there was a way to not sound condescending on this thread I would. But the way I see it - it's impossible.
Exactly


Which will be the same fate as 90+% of the population both sides of the pond should any large scale event take place and if you cant learn
  1. A: from their mistakes
  2. B: from what they did right,

Then like i said you got it all sown up show us!
As for divining they do it works for them (or they think it does), personaly I have doubts but I dont disclude anything, its not upto anyone to prove it thats just trolling for an argument, hows about you disprove it?
 

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As for divining they do it works for them (or they think it does), personaly I have doubts but I dont disclude anything, its not upto anyone to prove it thats just trolling for an argument, hows about you disprove it?
If I came on this forum and told everyone that turning water into wine was a viable method of creating a carbohydrate-rich beverage, I'd certainly expect people to ask me to prove it. And if I couldn't.. then frankly... I'd be wrong for suggesting it as a means of survival. That was the point of this thread, right... REAL SURVIVAL INFO. Well, if it's real survival info, why can't one single person prove to me it works. More to the point - how can the people on this thread state that it does work when they obviously have no personal experience with it? I'm not looking for an argument... the argument came looking for me. Anyone serious about the subject of survival should be able to seperate myth from fact. Truth from assumption.

IMO - your best all-around tool if you want to stay alive in adverse conditions is a practical, analytical mindset. Anyone who says 'dowsing works' without having any first hand experience obviously lacks that critical component. Can you teach reason? For the sake of a few people here, I hope so.

Come to think of it... why even bother preparing at all? For the price of a couple MREs, I can pick up a ouija board at K-Mart. Not only will I know when disaster is coming, I'll be able to talk to my dead mom too. Got any relatives you'd like me to say hello to?

BTW - Nice try... but I don't buy for one second that your post was meant to be an example of what 'not to do'. :D:
 

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Thanks, Smudge, for the link.

Is it full of how-tos? No. Is it real survival information? Yes.


INRE water dowsing, it has never, ever been successful under controlled conditions.

If you know anyone that thinks they can actually dowse, send them to www.randi.org.

James Randi has a long standing offer of $1 Million US to anyone that can successfully demonstrate any paranormal ability under controlled conditions (and that includes water dowsing). Many dowsers of all kinds (water, gold, oil, buried treasure, etc.) have offered to take the challenge, none have even been able to pass even a preliminary test.
 

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Smudge,
Thanks I liked the link. I have met a few Bosnians. They are a hard working bunch that love to Barbeque...go figure. I found their stories of home and the war to be illuminating. It was a priviledge to be allowed a small window into what life was like before the war and what they did to survive during the war.
Peter
 
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