Do not go outside. As long as you remain indoors, they don't know where you are, but you know where they are. Defend your family, home and property with a short, 12ga pump. If you confront them, do it from a covered position.

One perp shot in each arm? Had the victom used a 12ga, the perp wouldn't have arms.

 

It is obvious you know nothing of self defense or shot guns. please get some training before you get yourself hurt.

 

"Tapia grabbed Reichler and led him to his porch to call police, but before they got to the porch, court documents say a scuffle ensued and Reichler fired a shot that hit Tapia in the torso. Tapia then fired at least twice, hitting Reichler above his left wrist and in his right arm."

My opinion: Never try to apprehend a criminal. There is no material good left in my car worth the risk.

 

I agree about not trying to arrest a robber. But I won't let some little POS dictate how I live in my home or what i can do on my land.

It does not matter if they are Trespassers, Poachers, Thieves, or two young teens looking for a place to park and make out. Anyone who strayes on to my land will be confronted be me and my guardian dogs.

They will get the chance to leave.
I hope they leave quiety because I'm too damn old to dig graves at night.

 

RIP, but this is what insurance is for.

We leave the keys in an old pickup out in the barn just for this very reason. I call it our 'sacrificial truck.'

If anyone weird knocks on the door needing help day or night, I tell them (through the door) "the keys are out there on the sun visor in the old blue truck, take it." We live out in the sticks, and I don't want my wife opening the door for anybody for anything when I'm gone. I can replace an old ratty truck.

 

My dad does this too. 1987 rust bucket. Full tank of fuel. Keys in the ignition. He'd rather them take it and leave.

 

Face down on the ground. If they move, they must be going for a gun. Shoot.

 

In this particular case, turning on the porch light and shouting through the screen door would have sent these kids away.

 

The most I would have done is get armed, lock doors, get a description of their car and them, call police then maybe yell out to the thieves - the police are on the way.

 

Work with your Neighbors. You'll have better luck in a Mob.

 

The primary question for me would be if you would even go outside? When I read this story I was thinking when it would be appropriate draw on someone. I have always felt that the only time to draw a weapon is when your ready to shoot or of course clearing an area. Under ROL conditions, the only thing you can clear if need be is inside your home. Everything else just call the police. I don't think i would have went outside because if you shoot perp with no gun you'll end up in jail. If you go out trying to investigate you may loose the element of surprise and get shot yourself. Not worth going outside.

 

I agree. They arrested a car prowler nearby my neighborhood who was packing a MAC-10.

He did not use it on the police so I suspect he had it to use on any owners of the cars he was prowling who tried to stop him.

He's now dead. Shot 22 times by the police. They caught him in a stolen car and, again, armed. This time he was willing to shoot. Once again, I'm sure he wouldn't have hesitated to kill a car owner confronting him.

 

Guns are stand off weapons. Never let them get close enough to get yours. If I say don't come any closer, and he does, he just committed suicide.

 

Don't try to apprehend, especially when alone. Police don't even like to arrest a suspect alone.

 

The good ol days you get hanged stealing a man's horse.

 

Do you know why we don't hang for horse theft anymore?

I'll tell you.

In the West, the ONLY way to get around was by a vehicle of some sort. In the southern West, the distance between water was too far for a man to walk from one to another. The heat and other rapidly changing conditions also killed a man rapidly. People still die today from the same situations of flash flood, heat and snakebite.
In the northern West, wildlife and warring tribes meant the ability to travel quickly was vital. Other than the limited rail lines of the day, your vehicle was a horse. Stealing a mans horse was seen to be the same as killing him. Thus, horse theft = murder. Hanging was the sentence for murder.

As for this guy, he died of stupidity, or a lack of planning or lack of knowledge. Or all three.

Truth is not soft.

Lethal force is NOT permissible in defense of property. A house, while property, is classified as castle, domicile or residence for these conditions. A vehicle is NOT a domicile unless you, or another person is already inside with the permission of the vehicle owner.
This is stupidity or a lack of planning or knowledge on his part.
He would have actually faced charges related to improper use of force had he survived.

You can use lethal force in forcible felonies only. These are situations where physical violence is being used, threatened or imminent.
Burglary. Robbery. Rape. Murder. Attempted Murder. Aggravated Assault ( assault with a weapon, basically). Arson. Kidnapping.
Know these situations. Plan how to deal with them. Plan how to deal with situations outside lethal force parameters.
Respond inappropriately, especially with a lethal weapon, and you will be the one facing charges.

Never attempt to arrest anyone. You do not have legal authorization to shoot a fleeing criminal. Police are very specifically, in very specific situations, authorized to do that. In Utah, home of the best gun laws, this is the ONLY legal difference between law enforcement and private citizens when it comes to gun use. Thus, if he gets up and runs away, you can't legally shoot him. Do so, and you become the bad guy facing decades in prison.

If you really need the car that much, your only option is to get yourself inside of it before producing the weapon. THEN the vehicle can be classified as a domicile, and deadly force can be used. Good luck explaining to the prosecutor why you escalated the situation.

In reality, property can be replaced. Lives cannot. This is why sensible laws allow lethal force in defense of one, but not the other. I assure you the family would gladly trade his life for the vehicle, including title, and call it a killer steal of a deal (pun intended).

The laws I have stated above apply in Utah. They may or may not apply in your state. For instance, in Texas, it is my understanding that property can be defended with lethal force. This is bad law for previously explained reasons. But it is what it is. Your state laws may vary. If you own a gun, you'd best check and check well, else it may be you before the jury.

 

My understanding is that you cannot use deadly force to defend personal property. You can use it to defend your home or business or a life, but I could have sworn that if someone snatched your purse and started to run away you would not be legally justified in shooting the purse snatcher. (I'm taking no position on whether it is morally justified...just legally...in my state...as I understand it.)

Then again, you said both the homeowner and one of the thieves had a gun, so maybe the homeowner was trying to defend himself and not his car after coming upon the crime taking place. Either way, it is a terrible tragedy and I hope the criminals responsible for it rot in a prison cell in this life and rot in hell in the next.

 

It depends on the state. Some states such as mine allow lethal force in the commission of a 'forcible felony'. If someone uses force or the threat of force against you in a criminal way, they're fair game. Forcibly seizing a purse would allow you to shoot here, but not in some other states.

My state also allows the use of non-lethal force including restraint against anyone committing a trespass, robbery, or felony granted they are handed over to police in a 'reasonable' amount of time (citizen arrest state). If they resist then it progresses to a forcible felony and you can shoot.

 

The teens were attempting to break into one of Tapia’s cars when he walked out his front door armed with a handgun to confront the suspects, Williams said.

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.^^^^^^^^

I get the desire to do it. But that is just plain dumb.

 

1) Pray. Seriously.

2) Call the police. They likely won't get there in time, but it is the best first step, unless exigence prohibits it. Just dialing and not answering makes them dispatch.

3) Reconnoiter. Get the license plate number, count the perps, survey for weapons.

4) Know under what circumstances you are really going to pull the trigger. Do not initiate contact unless and until you know what the deadline is, and whether or not you will honor it without second-guessing.

5) Confront from the benefit of cover and concealment.

6) If they violate the deadline, shoot to unquestionably stop the threat. This isn't a Lifetime Television for Women made-for-TV movie, where the chick slaps the rapist, and then recoils in horror at what she's done. This is "bang" until they are incapable of doing anything whatsoever, or you hear a "click" and have nothing to reload with.

 

........Just dialing and not answering makes them dispatch.

This works on hardline phones. If you are like me and have a Verizon home phone it goes through the cell tower and if I am right you need to stay on the line and give them a physical address.

 

Why wasn't 911 called to begin with?

 

As I said in my post above once law enforcement is called you can write off the car, the thieves WILL destroy it crashing into police vehicles or innocent drivers while attempting to flee or just out of spite.

 

If I caught some one in my car Id ran out like

 

I feel terrible for this guys family, He thought he was being a hero, now his Wife and kids are left alone to fend for themselves?! That Vigilante crap is only cool in the movies. He should have called the cops and spent the rest of his life living.

 

.

 

Probably his shorts were riding up.

 

How would he know the three in/at the car are the only ones? Some more could have been trying to get into his back door while he was running off the front porch after the car thieves. Now he just left his wife and three children un-protected. He should have called police, got his wife and children into a safe room so he would know where they are, and informed the thieves that the police were on their way. If any one made a step toward the house, learn to live with that painted outline of the body in your lawn until spring.

 

In this particular case the two that ran off could have returned for their friend, armed, while owner was apprehending their friend.

 

If there were more like this home owner, there would be less of the others.

Just know your limitations and keep the advantage on your side.

Also, 3:1 odds is not good. Proper training of the wive and children does improve your odds.

I agree, a car is not worth dying for. I just think we should be making that point to the criminals, not the good people.

 

If there were more like this home owner, there would be less of the others.

Well the homeowner is dead so I am not sure he is a good example. In addition his attempt to "grab and capture and move" the thug not only got him killed, but would have made for a very messy legal situation if he had succeeded in killing the thug after he dragged him to the doorstep.

All around the guy had NO PLAN which is a very bad thing.

 

This country has really gone downhill with all the bleeding heart laws. Used to be a time when a thief knew he took the risk of getting shot, now they know the homeowner stands to lose more than they do if he/she confronts the thief. It takes a lot of work for most people these days to own something nice , yet this wimpy society says we should stand by and watch all our efforts get trashed or stolen by punks.

 

I know everyone on this forum believes that thieves should get what they deserve. However, if life was fair, I would be rich instead of just good looking. :

However, if you are a survivalist, then that should mean that you believe in SURVIVING. Surviving means not allowing the current situation governed by circumstances and the laws of man and nature do you in. Many of the states (and other jurisdictions) and their DA's take a dim view of taking someone's life to save a pickup truck.

The problem of going outside to confront thieves is that you may have to use deadly force to protect yourself. Staying inside has nothing to do with the lack of courage - it is simply good tactics and smart tactics. I probably would have called 911 and then armed myself with a shotgun to step outside the door and say "Hey fellows, just thought you should know that the cops are on their way." Then, I would step back inside. If the thieves were smart then they would beat feet, and the cops may still catch them anyway.

In many states if you use deadly force, you may have to stand trial because of the circumstances or a DA that just believes that civilians should not have guns. You may go to trial and be acquitted, but you will be punished to the tune of $100,000 to $150,000 to pay for your defense.

Should you be acquitted, then the surviving family will sue you for wrongful death. Now you are back in court again with the same costs for defense. That is why many of the surviving families will "settle" for $50,000 because it will cost you 2 to 3 times that to win your case in court. Why do you think large companies settle lawsuits so quickly?

The problem is that you need to SURVIVE the environment we are living in today. That environment attacks you with the scenario described above. It has nothing to do with how manly you are. When the court and sheriff come for your property what can you do? You did not SURVIVE in the financial sense.

Unfortunately, the individual of this thread's topic let his pride put him in an early grave. That same pride could put someone else in the poorhouse.

When it comes to deciding a course of action in a crisis event you need to "calculate" what you can lose versus what you can gain. When the thieves come to steal your pickup, then life has already put you on the negative side of the balance sheet just as though a tornado has taken off your roof. Where you go from here will be based on your judgement and your definition of SURVIVAL. In a crisis you try to make the best outcome of a bad situation. Most of the time you will not be made whole, but you can limit your loss by using smart tactics.

In an end of the world situation where there is no law and order your actions may be different because the environment (laws of man and nature) has changed from what it is today.

Just my two cents worth.

 

If they had a getaway car put a round in a front tire or both if you can then a round through a side window then a few in the windshield. Then go back inside and wait for the cops.

 

In the excitement of the moment, you must weigh the importance of what the thieves could steal vs. getting in a gun battle vs. taking someone's life. If they broke into my car they wouldn't get much of value. If you leave things of value in your car overnight, then make your decision.

 

Lesson: If you have the drop on a bad guy - don't get close to him until help arrives.