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SURVIVALISM IS A IFESTYLE
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First of all, Let me clear this up. I am not a HAM. I do plan on getting my license and learning all about amateur radio. I do not operate a HAM radio at all, either legally or illegally. Some die hard Ham Operator fanatic is going to think I am the devil and people like me are the greatest evil.I don't Care.

Now for the discussion.

As long as you know what you are doing, and don't cause a bunch of interference with your radio, why is it so bad to operate without a license. I know there are fines. Why do all HAMs think that they have to run to the government to report something as trivial as operating a radio without a license. Have any of you ever considered the limitations of being licensed. Such as violation of OPSEC. Reporting people to the FCC seems like its against being a true survivalist in my opinion. It not like a terror threat or something that would require a call to the Dept. of Homeland Security. I believe in individual property rights. Why shouldn't someone be able to use their radio on their property without a license. Nobody is getting hurt. Its just a radio after all. Why do people get so sensitive about this stuff? Lets keep this professional and insightful. I don't want this to turn into an arguement.
 

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Ill be one of those fanatics and tell you why. Because its wrong. Its against the law. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to ignore the law because its doesnt suit your needs. As for rights, YOu have no legal rights to radio's. You have no way to keep the radio signal on your property and whats the point of the radio. If all you need is a property radio there are plenty of license free radio. As for OPSEC violation. THEY ALREADY KNOW WHERE YOU ARE.. STOP TRYING TO PRETEND THEY EVEN CARE ABOUT YOU. If your such a bad ass they know about you, if your not they dont care... If your not on the up and up, What better way to get legal access to your OPERATIONS area. The FCC shows up with some men in black because they triangulated a unlicensed signal to your location. Move over they have the right to inspect... Keep in mind al capone killed many people but they got him on tax evasion. It opened the door.

Now to the more practical matter. MONEY.... Ham have a HUGE amount of spectrum worth billions of dollars. Business would love to buy and use them for their needs. If ham radio gets out of control, its just as easy to sell off the space to a high bidder, dump the money into an FCC fund. At that point you have no option and i guarantee the commercial people will have a direct line to the FCC complaining if you use there frequencies.
 

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SURVIVALISM IS A IFESTYLE
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253 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I see your points ohgary but I have to disagree. It is my personal opinion that any regulation of radio, no matter the purpose is a voilation of the first amendment right of free speech. So many rights and liberties have already been taken away that radio was bound to eventually get there too.
 

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SURVIVALISM IS A IFESTYLE
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Discussion Starter #4
I will remind that I don't plan on using a radio illegally and I don't think I am a badass. I am the opposite of a badass in that I avoid confrontation when possible. I do plan on getting licensed and I will not use a radio until then. Its just my opinion that people surrender their rights and liberties too easily. I will always side with less government control no matter the topic.
 

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just surviving
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639 Posts
I argued against the licensing by Fed gov here last year on a Constitutional basis. Like most issues people have already chosen sides and are not likely to change. Since then I have gotten licensed, to the top level, and purchased a mobile unit despite still being out of work. I like the radio; conversations I hear certainly aren't important, but it'll be there in an emergency. FWIW, my opinon about the constitutionality of the licensing has not changed one bit. I was at the QRZ site today and noted how many foreigners, from countries that were once (maybe still are) our enemies are posting about license updates and such. Why would any US agency presume authority to license foreigners? At the least, it's a waste of our tax dollars. Let their own country manage their users. Oh well, just one more example of how upside down and bass ackwards everything is now.
 

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Registered
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Here is my beef.

1. The FCC was voted into exsistence by representives of the people.

2. Almost every rule law and test was made by Civilians in the Amateur radio and rubber stamped by the FCC.

3. This community was allowed this area, and the community of US citizens and friendly nations (not just possible people in enemy countries who might be sympathetic to the US) have setup the regulations either by representatives or by people.

Now you tell me why you should go be a outlaw in a community of people run under probably the most constitutionally minimal Gov involvement project to modern date. On top of that the people turn you in because they don't want you to not follow there rules.

The anti Constitutionalists comments are poorly conceived in my opinion and the GOV should be looking at how the citizens intereact with the GOV in this instance.

Now if you can give me a reason why you should go against the people and have a valid reason by all means I will listen.

So far (not a jab at you) most of the complaints have been more on the side of people who "don't wanna" then people who do, and alot less on the reality that this is a GOV project that works.

Just my two cents.
 

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Christian
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39,500 Posts
It quite like the illegals coming into our country and bypassing all those who actually did it the legal way.

Most people do not like those that think they can skirt the rules and cut the line.

As far as a HAM license there isn't much to it why not just put the effort into getting one instead of putting the effort into trying to beat the system.
 
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Prepared
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15,924 Posts
Here's my take on it.

1. Look at the rest of the airwaves. Taken over by multi-national corporate media moguls. Regular broadcast TV is 99% crap at this point, commercials, and TV air-time is priced to keep ordinary people OUT. So you've got the worst of all worlds there.

2. Let's look at the internet. People hide behind aliases, spread viruses and worms, lies, spam, hack, etc. The hyper-consumerism has produced a lot of innovation, but consumers are forbidden to actually own the inter "tubes". You'll always rent cellphone time, rent your high speed lines from the ISP, etc. You'll never actually OWN the infrastructure.

So the upshot is that licensing does the following:

1. Keeps out more prevalent abuse and discourages low-life dirtbags that dominated CB.
2. Keep the bands public, not commercial and gobbled up by a small number of interests, which then forbid anyone to use them unless they pay a perpetual rental fee.
3. Encourages protocol, etiquette, education, social/group organization, self-policing, etc.

I think it's the same with any other responsibility, right, or obligation. People need to self-police, or else the right will be taken away because a small number of people abuse it.

As for OPSEC, radio isn't your friend anyway. You can probably get a direction-finder cheaper than most half-decent transceivers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_direction_finding)

First of all, Let me clear this up. I am not a HAM. I do plan on getting my license and learning all about amateur radio. I do not operate a HAM radio at all, either legally or illegally. Some die hard Ham Operator fanatic is going to think I am the devil and people like me are the greatest evil.I don't Care.

Now for the discussion.

As long as you know what you are doing, and don't cause a bunch of interference with your radio, why is it so bad to operate without a license. I know there are fines. Why do all HAMs think that they have to run to the government to report something as trivial as operating a radio without a license. Have any of you ever considered the limitations of being licensed. Such as violation of OPSEC. Reporting people to the FCC seems like its against being a true survivalist in my opinion. It not like a terror threat or something that would require a call to the Dept. of Homeland Security. I believe in individual property rights. Why shouldn't someone be able to use their radio on their property without a license. Nobody is getting hurt. Its just a radio after all. Why do people get so sensitive about this stuff? Lets keep this professional and insightful. I don't want this to turn into an arguement.
 

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Look what happened to CB radio.
Once upon a time you needed a license (no test if I remember correctly).

Anyway, idiots took over the bandwidth and now you can't even turn the CB on if you have children with you.

Free speech? No, lazy inconsiderate boobs who just ruined it for others.
Remember when you would see signs for fines for spitting on the sidewalk? Now you have guys in suits blowing their nose on the sidewalk. Common sense, good manners and civility is dead in this country.
 

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I see your points ohgary but I have to disagree. It is my personal opinion that any regulation of radio, no matter the purpose is a voilation of the first amendment right of free speech. So many rights and liberties have already been taken away that radio was bound to eventually get there too.
While I agree you have the right to free speech, I disagree that the medium that you use should also be free or uncontrolled. As others have noted, listen to the CB radio and how useless it has become because people think they have a right to ignore the rules. ALSO note CB radio frequencies were taken from ham radio operators in the 60's. CB was a very practical way for family and small business to communicate with mobile stations 20-50 miles away, Now a day with the over modulated, overpowered radio's, your lucky to get 10 miles. A single station in a town running illegal power level can take out all 40 channels for 20 square miles. There are rules to manage the radio spectrum. Ham radio is very easy to get, (to easy in my mind) and people who want to use ham radio need to know and understand that there are rules that need to be followed to make effective use of the limited radio space.
 

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Hubris begets Nemesis
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Forget the "free speech" argument for a moment. When you broadcast, you are transmitting a PHYSICAL EM WAVE which leaves your property and enters mine and my neighbors. That wave can interfere with MY life by creating noise in my electronics or disrupting sensitive medical equipment that is in the nursing home next door.

I don't want your free speech infringed upon but I DO want your transmission controlled so as not to disturb MY freedoms. And regulation helps do that.
 

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Prepared
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15,924 Posts
Good point -- it's for the safety of the operator also. It's quite simple to fry oneself while working 1000 watts, re-wiring something in your shack, put a large antenna too near an airport or power line, start a fire, etc. Ham shacks aren't only regulated by the FCC -- but also by electrical codes. For good reason, I believe.

Forget the "free speech" argument for a moment. When you broadcast, you are transmitting a PHYSICAL EM WAVE which leaves your property and enters mine and my neighbors. That wave can interfere with MY life by creating noise in my electronics or disrupting sensitive medical equipment that is in the nursing home next door.

I don't want your free speech infringed upon but I DO want your transmission controlled so as not to disturb MY freedoms. And regulation helps do that.
 

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SURVIVALISM IS A IFESTYLE
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Discussion Starter #13
I see some very good points here. I can't believe that I now think that this license might not be that bad. I do still think that the fines are far too expensive. Do you need a license if you just listen and don't broadcast?

I do have another question though. What is really gonna keep the large corporations from getting licenses and filling the airwaves with ads just like tv and internet?

Thanks for enlightening me people. I never thought about some of those possibilities.
 

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Looks like rain to me.
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41,428 Posts
I see some very good points here. I can't believe that I now think that this license might not be that bad. I do still think that the fines are far too expensive. Do you need a license if you just listen and don't broadcast?

No, you don't need a license to listen, there are scanners you can listen to. The license is cheap and easy to get and free to renew.

I do have another question though. What is really gonna keep the large corporations from getting licenses and filling the airwaves with ads just like tv and internet?

Ham radio waves do not allow commercial use. Even casual use.

Thanks for enlightening me people. I never thought about some of those possibilities.
The fee is $15 to take the test and it keeps you legal.
 

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I see some very good points here. I can't believe that I now think that this license might not be that bad. I do still think that the fines are far too expensive. Do you need a license if you just listen and don't broadcast?
No you can get a Shortwave radio and listen all you want without a license.

I do have another question though. What is really gonna keep the large corporations from getting licenses and filling the airwaves with ads just like tv and internet?
One is EMERGENCY communications. Hams have already helped with emcomm, We need to keep active with helping out, Make sure they know were using the frequencies.

Second is not to be a pain for the FCC.. If we become a pain they get rid of us..
 

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Grumpy Old Bastard
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Do you need a license if you just listen and don't broadcast?
Nope, you don't even need a transceiver, just buy a radio with all those multibands on it and tune in a lot more than just ham radios.

I do have another question though. What is really gonna keep the large corporations from getting licenses and filling the airwaves with ads just like tv and internet?
The rules of the FCC prohibit commercial use of amateur radio bands. Even in the 2 meter area where you can have phone patches (make telephone calls over ham radio) you can't buy or sell anything. It's non-commercial radio. I do remember hearing something about being able to order a pizza over a phone patch but, I don't recall how legal that is to do. The amateur aspect of the bands are definitely something that can be easily enforced.

Thanks for enlightening me people. I never thought about some of those possibilities.
More Koolaid??
 

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Dios y Tejas
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try getting a SONY ICF SW-7600GR or a Grundig GR 5.... both portable radios have SSB capabilities and you can listen to code or voice on all HAM operated frequencies.... a radio w/o SSB essentially is just a broadcast radio (shortwave or otherwise)
 

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Do you need a license if you just listen and don't broadcast?
Seems obvious that you wouldn't, but you do need to pay to receive satellite TV. I've never understood the legal logic behind that. Imagine: some company puts up a transmitter in space and dominates some PUBLICLY OWNED bandwidth with their transmissions (so that nobody else can use it . . .) and then you have to pay to receive it.

Sorry about the hijack. Just ignore this rant and proceed.
 

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SURVIVALISM IS A IFESTYLE
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Discussion Starter #19
Well thanks everyone. I am content leave this thread because I have changed my opinion and thank you all again. The purpose has been served.
 

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One of the Good Guys
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Seems obvious that you wouldn't, but you do need to pay to receive satellite TV. I've never understood the legal logic behind that. Imagine: some company puts up a transmitter in space and dominates some PUBLICLY OWNED bandwidth with their transmissions (so that nobody else can use it . . .) and then you have to pay to receive it.

Sorry about the hijack. Just ignore this rant and proceed.
Not to encourage the hijack;) , but you don't actually have to pay to recieve satellite TV signals if you have your own satellite, the signals are free. What you have to pay for is the ability to decode the proprietary code so that you can actually see a moving picture on your TV. Still stinks though.:mad:
 
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