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Wow, this has been discussed a million times already...

The point is, the illegals came here illegally, knowing damn well what they were doing.

They showed a blatant disregard for Americas laws.

So if we got rid of the immigration law's, then what would be the difference?
So by that logic, we should let bank robbers and sex-offenders go then, and make robbing and rape legal? That way it wouldn't be a problem?

Same principle.

And also, when you talk about competition, competition is only healthy, as long as that competition is being regulated.

For example, if I do a job for 10 bucks an hour, but Pedro does it for 8, but then Suzy Q does it for 4.50 an hour, that basically eliminates any competition. It might be OK for a Mexican to do a job for way less then what an American would do it for, because the chances are he/she's living in a home shared with another Mexican family and most of her money is being sent down to the rest of her family in Mexico.

Unlike an American citizen where he has American sized taxes to pay, American sized house payments to make and American sized food bill all by himself, usually providing for a wife/partner and their children.

Get my drift?

I'm all for helping those in need, but not when they knowingly break the law. In fact, you're called an accomplice if you do so. :p

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The other problem that IMMO creates the first problem is America's socialism that creates the unfairness of American taxes going to the illegals through so many outlets as heath care, education and the like.
I agree with you on that.

As far as competition goes, why would an American willing to pay for a job have to pay 10 to one guy when somebody else is willing to make the same job for 5?

We should separate the problems here. One problem is that immigration should never be made illegal in a rational and free society. But then a rational and free society should never take money away by force from one man to give to another. Then, let competition reign.
Well, that's why we have minimum wage. We have minimum wage for two reasons. A.) To make sure all employees get a fair pay and B.) To limit the competition.

Competition is great, as long as it doesn't cost someone their house and future.

But competition can also be very unfair. It can make people work for way less then they are entitled to, and it can can also make life very difficult, and help keep the poor poor, and the rich rich.

And if everyone is going to work for 4 bucks an hour, we're going to need to cut down big time on taxes, cost of food, housing etc.

The reasons illegals work for so little is because they have no choice in the matter. Also because like I said, most live in a shared housing environment. (Where they'll share all the expenses.) They also send the dollar back to Mexico where the dollar is still relatively high.

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here?

One is the legality / illegality of immigration and whether this is moral or not.
We may be.

The illegality is not in question, the illegal immigrants are illegal. That can't be discussed.
I'm glad we agree :)

Question is if the laws that make them so are moral or not.
Hmm... Each country has it's laws, Mexico isn't any different. (In fact, their immigration laws are 100x worse.) If it was immoral, then why would each and every country already have the same basic law? Wouldn't someone have changed it after a few decades? (Hell, they change everything else...)

Thats currently the best answer I can give.


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This statement boils down to: the Mexicans method of doing business is more efficient economically, which allows him to be a more aggressive competitor. Again, you are free to live in a shared home. If you are unwilling, that means you are willing to do what it takes to be able to compete at that level.
Yeah, I'd like to see your parents try that when they had you.

The fact is, we live the American life. We don't live in little shacks, or apartments with 5 families living in them all at once. We work hard for what we have.

We have laws in place to assure that everyone gets a decent salary. If everyone could just go in and say 'Hey, I'll do that for a buck!' you're not giving people a chance in the work force. What works for one person, may not work for another.

For example, I live alone. I have very little monthly bills to pay. Yet my job pays me quite well. I COULD do it for a lot cheaper and still continue to live a decent life.

But what about a family of four? You'd basically starve them, unless they go get social services. Yet, we will have to pay taxes for those social services wont we? And someone has to pay for it.
 

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By excellent you mean 'stupid' right? :p;)

Seriously, it made me want to pour chlorine in my eyes.

Apologize for the immoral immigration laws? Exempt immigrants from taxes? WTH? :eek::rolleyes:

It's a two way street, you want to receive health care and handouts, you better pay taxes when you can. Immoral laws? I can come up with a hundred other laws that will need looking into before that's even considered.

No disrespect to you FM, as I know that's not your article (AFAIK). But it made me sick.

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From your post I can see that you are making a knee jerk reaction
Nope, just heard it all before. And each time it makes me sick. I don't pretend to believe our government is perfect, but if our system is so immoral, why does every other country employ the same basic law? And why hasn't anyone made a ruckus about this before it became so 'trendy'?

did not read even the excerpt, because if you had, you would have noticed that before he said exempt them from taxes he also said "Exclude immigrants from receiving welfare and from using government schools" in the sentence immediately prior.
I read the article, and I over looked a word. No ones perfect.


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So much is expected of Americans it's not even funny.

Everyone expects us to bend over backwards to accommodate them, if we give anything less then expected, we're immoral racists.

If we require someone to talk English, we are not being politically correct, if we ask someone to become a citizen, we're immoral...

It's gotta stop. We as Americans give so much already, even IF we don't grant amnesty. Yet so little is returned. Instead, we get people who haven't gotten what they think they should have burning our flags, protesting, spitting on citizens...

It's sickening. It's all going to get far worse before it gets any better. Some people won't learn until our country is in ruins. (That goes from politicians to regular Joes.)

It may not be fun, or 'happy feeling', but it's something we need to realize.

We are losing our country. Thanks to the idiotic government, illegal immigration, crime, you name it.

All we can do a this point is pray/hope that we don't end up like all the other lost civilizations out there. (I'm looking at YOU Mayans! :p )
 

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especially after its been debunked
You're right, this pro-amnesty thing is bunk. :p

I've had enough of these questions to be honest. It really doesn't do much, because on these issues, people are pretty much dead set already on what they believe.

And you're hearing the same things over and over again, because the people you're hearing it from have heard what you've been saying over and over again from various people.

It's late now, so I'll go to bed. :)

Nighty night all.

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it must be done in thier country
That's what I keep saying. For example Africa. If we truly want to help out Africa, we have to help the people understand they need to help themselves, to do this, we need to teach them and give them the tools they need. We also need to constantly checkup with their government to keep things running smoothly, and to make sure that no human rights are being violated.

Mass immigration causes more harm then good in my opinion. I'm all for helping those in need, but not at sacrificing my country to do so. Might sound cold, but we all need to see the reality.
 
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