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bad grammar deal with it
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Discussion Starter #1
Since the dog breed thread and a while before that ive been looking to get a dog ive finally narrowed down the breeds to two

1 Alano Espanol (spanish bulldog)
2 Rhodesian Ridgeback

im leaning more towards the espanol b/c of its temperament with children. anyway my question is since ive never dealt with a dog breeder before let alone an international one. what kinds of questions do i ask about. obviously health problems but what else? also if i do buy a pup how would the transaction work? would i fly to wherever the puppies are pick one up and fly back or do they ship them like international shopping orders?

thanks in advance
 

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Bleach blonde on fire :p
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You need to be careful with dealing with pups/breeders you can not physically touch & see. Many have been duped by deals made like this. A puppy that you can not have any contact with is a no no. Breeders use this type of sale to get rid of there culls (non breed formations, health problems etc) and once you pay and have it shipped its yours- no matter what type of warranty (they count on it will cost you more to ship the pup back and go through all the riga marole than the pup is worth, they know you will sink more money you would not be able to recoop). Don't trust a breeder just because they have a website or in a magazine, they are just as bad or worse. Contact the AKC or CKC and get a list or breeders in your area, check them out first.

This is all that came up for the #1 dog you listed- is this it? If it is you can call one of these 2 numbers and find breeders where you live.

Also check akc.org

Perro de Presa Canario
Foundation Stock Service

Eligible Registries: American Presa Club, Any Acceptable Domestic or Foreign Registry

Contact: American Presa Club, Mr. Mac Harris, 133-19 128th Street, So. Ozone Park, NY 11420; phone: (718) 659-0611

Contact: United Perro de Presa Canario Club, AKC liaison: Richard G. Kelly, President, 239 Raritan Avenue, Middlesex, NJ 08846

Perro de Presa Canario LinksPerro de Presa Canario
Foundation Stock Service

Eligible Registries: American Presa Club, Any Acceptable Domestic or Foreign Registry

Contact: American Presa Club, Mr. Mac Harris, 133-19 128th Street, So. Ozone Park, NY 11420; phone: (718) 659-0611

Contact: United Perro de Presa Canario Club, AKC liaison: Richard G. Kelly, President, 239 Raritan Avenue, Middlesex, NJ 08846

Perro de Presa Canario Links
 

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The Spanish bulldog has too many health problems, I'd stear clear of them. Ridgebacks haven't gain in popularity enough to have bad breeders create as many problems.

I'm a vet tech and I'm not a good one for purbreds. Our mutts that come here from the humane societies are so much more healthy than most purbreds. If you go to our cancer row-the cages with the dogs undergoing chemo-every dog in there right now is a purbred.

I see purbreds as status symbol dogs. I don't really like them much.

Some of the less popular purbreds may still be okay because there hasn't as much bad breeding, but I still like the Minnesota farm dogs. People who actually use dogs for work breed the best dogs, but they aren't going to have papers, just good health.

Tury
 

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Go to your local pound/animal shelter and adopt. Or find the rescue groups for certain breeds. Since I no longer breed dogs, I rescue Goldens and golden mix. You can get a great dog cheap and save their life. I will not work with any breeder I can't meet and see their facility. I hate puppy mill operators. My current Golden mix is 8 years old almost 9. SHe is in great health. No hip problems. Extremely inteligent. You have to do what makes you happy but think about taking a good dog home that has no future. You can find puppies right after the holidays that the new owners bit off more than they could chew.
 

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Happiness is 2 at low 8
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...I'm a vet tech and I'm not a good one for purbreds. Our mutts that come here from the humane societies are so much more healthy than most purbreds. If you go to our cancer row-the cages with the dogs undergoing chemo-every dog in there right now is a purbred...
Is the high number of purebreds vs mutts is due to the economic "health" of the owners or to something inherently defective in purebreds. People who can afford purebreds can afford to spend thousands of dollars to get their dogs that type of care whereas the people who can only afford mutts don't have that kind of money?

The sums that some vets charge is outrageous (may be justifiable, but still extremely high). Around here all too many vets prey on the emotions of the pet's owner and exact a princely sum for all but the most basic care (not saying your employer is that way, but we see it a lot around here.)

Allan -- had one vet estimate over $1000 to treat a hypoglycemic Maltese puppy a few years ago... Sorry, this is a hot button with me.
 

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Is the high number of purebreds vs mutts is due to the economic "health" of the owners or to something inherently defective in purebreds. People who can afford purebreds can afford to spend thousands of dollars to get their dogs that type of care whereas the people who can only afford mutts don't have that kind of money?

The sums that some vets charge is outrageous (may be justifiable, but still extremely high). Around here all too many vets prey on the emotions of the pet's owner and exact a princely sum for all but the most basic care (not saying your employer is that way, but we see it a lot around here.)

Allan -- had one vet estimate over $1000 to treat a hypoglycemic Maltese puppy a few years ago... Sorry, this is a hot button with me.

No, the problem with purebreds is the breeding. People like their golden retrievers to be gold or their rotties to be big or their poodles to be cute and the right color. So breeders breed what sells. Instead of only picking the healthiest dogs they pick the ones that produce the litters that sell. A blue merle collie sells for more than a black and white so it doesn't matter if the blue merle's mother had behavior problems, they breed it because it sells. People see cute, pretty puppies, and they may even be smart enough to check the physical health of the parents but when the dog is 18 months he starts biting the owner. Breeder says it's the new owner's fault, maybe they mistreated the animal.

There are so many inherited diseases, some mental, some physical. With mutt dogs they aren't cute. There isn't money being made off of them. There is no reason to breed crap just to make a couple thousand dollars. The mean dogs are shot, the sick dogs die. When you take the money factor out of the breeding people breed the best because that is what suits their purpose. You can't have a sick dog or a mean dog guarding the sheep. A good working farm dog that is not bred for money is the best bet.

Now there will be a lot of breeders that will come out and say this isn't true. There are probably exceptions to the rule. It's the money factor that makes breeding bad. If a person can make money off of something and they are a little strapped for cash and they know people would rather buy a pretty dog than a well dog, there is a good chance that's what they are going to breed.

You point out that if a vet can make money on a person, they will. Yep, just like most business men. Vets have overhead. Animal drugs are just as expensive as people drugs. A MRI for an animal costs just as much or more if it a large animal as it does for a person. People have no problem telling other people if they can't afford health care then they die but they often feel that animals should be treated no matter what. Most vets do better than doctors to make deals but if a person want to go further for an animal they do have to pay for it. There is no government programs that pay vets to take care of low income animals. It's not preying on emotions, it's offering a service that can be turned down. I'm sorry but this is a hot topic button of MINE. I often hear people say welfare for people is bad but they deserve cheaper prices for their dogs. I don't get where people's priorities are.

But to use your point, if money can be made by preying on emotions people will. That's why the cute, overly bred dog that is expensive has a better chance of being unfit than the mutt that doesn't make money. If a breeder can prey on the emotions of a person for money, why shouldn't they. The mutt's owner isn't making money so it's a better chance that animal will be sound.

Sorry, I'm normally a bit more quiet of a person but I don't go around insulting other people's jobs. My boss goes out of his way to make things as inexpensive as possible but it still costs him money to run a business. He does not make the profit that human doctors do, but he pays the same costs. There was a time where animals lived or died, now we have more choices but we have to know we have to pay for those choices.
 

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bad grammar deal with it
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Discussion Starter #7
The Spanish bulldog has too many health problems, I'd stear clear of them. Ridgebacks haven't gain in popularity enough to have bad breeders create as many problems.

I'm a vet tech and I'm not a good one for purbreds. Our mutts that come here from the humane societies are so much more healthy than most purbreds. If you go to our cancer row-the cages with the dogs undergoing chemo-every dog in there right now is a purbred.

I see purbreds as status symbol dogs. I don't really like them much.

Some of the less popular purbreds may still be okay because there hasn't as much bad breeding, but I still like the Minnesota farm dogs. People who actually use dogs for work breed the best dogs, but they aren't going to have papers, just good health.

Tury
do you have any links where it says the alano espanol has health problems? everything ive read about these dogs says they are very hardy and do not have any major health issues
 

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do you have any links where it says the alano espanol has health problems? everything ive read about these dogs says they are very hardy and do not have any major health issues

No I don't have links. There are several vet journals out there with that have the information. If I read something about a dog being healthy and hardy I might think the article was put out by a breeder with motives of there own. There are very few dogs that don't have some sort of health risk. A good article should explain both pros and cons of every dog breed, including the illnesses they are prone to.

Tury
 

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Pound pups

I have gotten all my pups over the years from the pound or friends end up with an unexpected pregnant female dog. The one I have now came from a shelter where the local law raided a dog fighting ring, He has been SUPER good and no problems at all in 5yrs. I know when i leave home the wife is safe as long as he has a breath of life in him. Mama spoils him rotten and so do I. Oh and find a good vet.
 

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I agree there are a lot of bad breeders out there, but they all aren't evil business men who are just out to make a dollar. There are tons of breeders out just to carry on the breed standard. The puppy mills are another thing alltogether...

To answer the OP's original question: I don't have alot of experience with the spanish bulldog but being an uncommon breed in the US it probably hasn't been exploited as bad other breeds. I have talked to a lot of Rhodesian Ridgeback owners. A major breeder did business with the animal hospital I worked in. It seems that the best owner for one of these has lots of room for the dog to run and hunt, and has lots of time for training. The folks that I've talked to really love these animals but they are also really dedicated to them. They are a breed that hasn't really changed from big game hunters. It seems if you have kids its easier to train them to not get in trouble with these dogs as it is to train the dog not to hunt your offspring. The rhodies that I've handled in the animal hospital were extremely strong and dominant. They were mostly healthy dogs with good personalities but you have to be dominant. Don't try to play kissy face with them....

edited to add:
As far as international breeders go if you can't see their set up in person then you may be buying from an international puppy mill or you just could be getting ripped off. I agree with the others, try to go with a local breeder.
 

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Watchin tha world go by
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at present i have a catahola cur --- good hunter and loyal,

last rodesian i had was a terrific family dog --- if it got past Dillon the wife said ---" its 8 ft tall w fangs"very protective -

he was a problem around those he didnt know --- very large in size and appetite but an excellent dog
 

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Just because you've apparently had a bad experience with a breeder - don't slam us all. SOME BREEDERS ARE GOOD BREEDERS. This is the ONLY hobby a person can have where they get slammed over and over for being greedy - no matter how much money they spend.

My purebreds live 12-15 years, have zero orthopedic problems, and don't even have food allergies. They are pets, show dogs, service dogs, SAR dogs, etc.

There are NO studies, NO hard facts showing that mutts are healthier. I'd say that the owners of mutts and the owners of purebreds are different, demographically, and have different views of what level of veterinary care they require.

For example: there are no studies on hip dysplasia rates in mutts, but we breeders pay (and pay) for studies to be done on dysplasia in our own breeds as we want to eliminate it. Same for eye defects, etc. We have just funded a study to extend the life of the rabies vaccine from every 3 years to every 5 years, and are looking at paying for a study for 7 years.

No, the problem with purebreds is the breeding. People like their golden retrievers to be gold or their rotties to be big or their poodles to be cute and the right color. So breeders breed what sells. Instead of only picking the healthiest dogs they pick the ones that produce the litters that sell. A blue merle collie sells for more than a black and white so it doesn't matter if the blue merle's mother had behavior problems, they breed it because it sells. People see cute, pretty puppies, and they may even be smart enough to check the physical health of the parents but when the dog is 18 months he starts biting the owner. Breeder says it's the new owner's fault, maybe they mistreated the animal.

There are so many inherited diseases, some mental, some physical. With mutt dogs they aren't cute. There isn't money being made off of them. There is no reason to breed crap just to make a couple thousand dollars. The mean dogs are shot, the sick dogs die. When you take the money factor out of the breeding people breed the best because that is what suits their purpose. You can't have a sick dog or a mean dog guarding the sheep. A good working farm dog that is not bred for money is the best bet.

Now there will be a lot of breeders that will come out and say this isn't true. There are probably exceptions to the rule. It's the money factor that makes breeding bad. If a person can make money off of something and they are a little strapped for cash and they know people would rather buy a pretty dog than a well dog, there is a good chance that's what they are going to breed.

You point out that if a vet can make money on a person, they will. Yep, just like most business men. Vets have overhead. Animal drugs are just as expensive as people drugs. A MRI for an animal costs just as much or more if it a large animal as it does for a person. People have no problem telling other people if they can't afford health care then they die but they often feel that animals should be treated no matter what. Most vets do better than doctors to make deals but if a person want to go further for an animal they do have to pay for it. There is no government programs that pay vets to take care of low income animals. It's not preying on emotions, it's offering a service that can be turned down. I'm sorry but this is a hot topic button of MINE. I often hear people say welfare for people is bad but they deserve cheaper prices for their dogs. I don't get where people's priorities are.

But to use your point, if money can be made by preying on emotions people will. That's why the cute, overly bred dog that is expensive has a better chance of being unfit than the mutt that doesn't make money. If a breeder can prey on the emotions of a person for money, why shouldn't they. The mutt's owner isn't making money so it's a better chance that animal will be sound.

Sorry, I'm normally a bit more quiet of a person but I don't go around insulting other people's jobs. My boss goes out of his way to make things as inexpensive as possible but it still costs him money to run a business. He does not make the profit that human doctors do, but he pays the same costs. There was a time where animals lived or died, now we have more choices but we have to know we have to pay for those choices.
 

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do you have any links where it says the alano espanol has health problems? everything ive read about these dogs says they are very hardy and do not have any major health issues

Everything has health problems of some sort - go to www.offa.org and look up the breed. Since it is a rare breed here, there probably isn't any information - there is a phone #. You can call offa and ask them if they have any unpublished information on the breed - I've done it before and they'll talk to you. :)

Another place to look for US breeders would be the ARBA or RARITIES websites.
 

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Just because you've apparently had a bad experience with a breeder - don't slam us all. SOME BREEDERS ARE GOOD BREEDERS. This is the ONLY hobby a person can have where they get slammed over and over for being greedy - no matter how much money they spend.

My purebreds live 12-15 years, have zero orthopedic problems, and don't even have food allergies. They are pets, show dogs, service dogs, SAR dogs, etc.

There are NO studies, NO hard facts showing that mutts are healthier. I'd say that the owners of mutts and the owners of purebreds are different, demographically, and have different views of what level of veterinary care they require.

For example: there are no studies on hip dysplasia rates in mutts, but we breeders pay (and pay) for studies to be done on dysplasia in our own breeds as we want to eliminate it. Same for eye defects, etc. We have just funded a study to extend the life of the rabies vaccine from every 3 years to every 5 years, and are looking at paying for a study for 7 years.
It's not the breeders fault but lets be honest we call it breeding but it is in fact inbreeding. After a breed is formed lets just say "poodles" for instance, after that the only dogs that can mate are in that gene pool and that is when you get mutations of genes that is way certain breeds have certain problems. I had and Astrailian Sheperd, great dog smart, but at 8 months old started having Epileptic seizure, it was not the breeders fault but the mom and dad both can from the family tree 5 generation back and that made those recessive genes become dominate genes.
 

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A mutt could have had the same epileptic seizure - but you don't have the benefit of a pedigree, so you can't trace it. If you want purebreds with complete outcross pedigrees, you CAN get them, but you have to do the research.

The reason we have purebreds is that they were selectively bred for a specific purpose. Good luck trying to get a mutt puppy to work for that purpose as well as a dog bred just for it.

It's not the breeders fault but lets be honest we call it breeding but it is in fact inbreeding. After a breed is formed lets just say "poodles" for instance, after that the only dogs that can mate are in that gene pool and that is when you get mutations of genes that is way certain breeds have certain problems. I had and Astrailian Sheperd, great dog smart, but at 8 months old started having Epileptic seizure, it was not the breeders fault but the mom and dad both can from the family tree 5 generation back and that made those recessive genes become dominate genes.
 
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