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Hey ya'll, watch this....
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After driving by a rural maximum security prison the other day, the wife and I had a discussion that I'd like to hear from some CO's (and others) on.

As a 20 year cop, I've had the privilege to investigate and/or lock up some true, hideous, monsters. Likewise, I've also dealt with quite a few who committed crimes because of being misguided, immature, or addicted, but weren't 'bad' people. And then others who hadn't committed any monstrous or heinous crimes (sometimes, only relatively minor offenses), but without a doubt would do so if there were no rule of law.

In my opinion, probably 90+ percent of inmates in max/supermax prisons, and 60+ percent in medium security prisons, regardless of their current or previous charges, would absolutely pose a significant risk to the public if there was no rule of law; such as a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI event. They would literally be like kids in a candy store with no adults; wreaking havoc on every person they encounter who they can overpower.

Now, to my question for the CO's... suppose you're at work when a significant, nation changing SHTF event happens. Something that has or will knock out all power/govt/services/etc. on a national or worldwide level, and that we will not recover from anytime soon.

I'm guessing that some or most CO's will stay at work for at least a couple/few days. But, there will come a time when you'll have to leave to take care of yourself and your family. So, what do you do with the inmates? Do you free them? Leave them locked up to starve to death? Execute them? What do you think the majority of your coworkers would choose to do?

Freeing them would gravely endanger everyone who lives nearby, and, ultimately, the public as a whole. But there are serious moral considerations for doing anything else, too. Thoughts?
 

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Master Rationalizer
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I'm not Corrections, never was. But because of my background and experience, I did handle high-risk warrants once upon a time. What I can say for those in Max or Super Max if things go sideways is this---kill them. Do it quick, do it clean, but kill them. They're where they are because they were a genuine threat to people when there was social order. What do you suppose they're going to be like when social order relies on nothing more than integrity or a bullet to hold things together?
 

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Worst part is that since you say that many inmates weren't particularly dangerous before being locked up, many of them became that way because of their experiences in lockup.
Remember the juvenile lockup in Florida with COs that bribed prisoners to beat each other up? How bout the prison in California where COs created and facilitated attacks by cons. My guess is that when the cons realize the balloon as gone up, first thing on their minds will be to take over the facility and in many cases get some revenge on the guards.
It would be interesting to see some of the fat guards who act like drill instructors experiencing life at the other end of the food chain. Now that's a reality show I'd watch.
Con: "Get on your face and give me twenty"
Fat Guard: "I can't do one, how am I supposed to do twenty?"
Con: "Hurry the **** up!"
Fat Guard: "I've fallen and I can't get up!"
 

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Hey ya'll, watch this....
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667 Posts
Worst part is that since you say that many inmates weren't particularly dangerous before being locked up, many of them became that way because of their experiences in lockup.
Remember the juvenile lockup in Florida with COs that bribed prisoners to beat each other up? How bout the prison in California where COs created and facilitated attacks by cons. My guess is that when the cons realize the balloon as gone up, first thing on their minds will be to take over the facility and in many cases get some revenge on the guards.
It would be interesting to see some of the fat guards who act like drill instructors experiencing life at the other end of the food chain. Now that's a reality show I'd watch.
Con: "Get on your face and give me twenty"
Fat Guard: "I can't do one, how am I supposed to do twenty?"
Con: "Hurry the **** up!"
Fat Guard: "I've fallen and I can't get up!"
I could definitely see a takeover being attempted.

Sure, there are bad CO's just as there are bad apples in every sigle profession and population. But I think most are honorable, and do a job very few others would/can do.

I'm pretty sure it isn't the guards who turn petty criminals into dangerous ones; its other inmates.
 

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Hey ya'll, watch this....
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm not Corrections, never was. But because of my background and experience, I did handle high-risk warrants once upon a time. What I can say for those in Max or Super Max if things go sideways is this---kill them. Do it quick, do it clean, but kill them. They're where they are because they were a genuine threat to people when there was social order. What do you suppose they're going to be like when social order relies on nothing more than integrity or a bullet to hold things together?
Whats your opinion on how to handle medium/minimum security, and city or county jail inmates?
 
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They're where they are because they were a genuine threat to people when there was social order.
I think this is HIGHLY debatable.

But like I said in the other post. Its irrelevant.

I get the feeling that some people here really are looking for a way to label all the people that are going to become threats to us as “bad guys” to make killing them easier.

But I don’t think it will work that way. I think there will be prepared people who have the choice of how to live, and everyone else, the vast majority, who won’t have a choice, who will have to become predators and for which only the very best will survive more than a few months. This is why we have the “zombie” metaphor. Zombies aren’t bad guys, they aren’t good guys. They are victims of the disaster, creatures that have no choice but to take what we have to survive.

Prisoners are just going to get there really fast. If you think they should all be killed outright you should consider that the same logic applies to any city as well.

Best way to deal with them? Get in a position now so you won’t have to deal with them at all. For prepper purposes a prison is nothing more than a small city of extra unprepared and extra dangerous people.
 

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I worked in the federal prison system for 20+ years. High an Medium security prisons house some of the most dangerous people in the world. By being in one of these facilities they have shown themselves to be incapable of adapting to normal civilized behavior. Anyone who believes they should be released needs to spend 24 hours inside and you will quickly change your mind. "Fat guards" you are either joking, watch way to much tv or/and no nothing about it. Understand this, if these inmates were released, there is no doubt in my mind that they as a collective would kill and rape throughout the entire area. We are talking about 1,500 to 2,500 inmates at each facility and in many cases there are now 3-4 facilities located next to each other. There will be no releasing of these inmates.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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There's a bunch of prisons in the middle of big farms SW of Houston.
Stringfellow, Terrell, Ramsey.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/har...damaged-harvey-workers-inmates-pitching-clean

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/29/two-more-texas-prisons-evacuated-harvey-flooding-continues/

Evacuated during Hurricane Harvey.
So for a localized SHTF, they were simply moved to another prison.


Do the prisoners work those farms or is that just where they decided to put the prisons?
I don't recall seeing prisoners in those fields.
 

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The Power of the Glave
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This question has come-up several times on Survivalist Boards, without any clear consensus about a solution.

In a real collapse/SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation, eventually the prison staff will abandon their posts.

Here are the three things I see happening, from most to least likely:

1) The inmates will somehow take over and release themselves. They may stage a successful uprising, or may simply be given the keys.

2) Unable to free themselves, they will starve to death or die of thirst. A horrific ending.

3) The least likely scenario: that corrections officers will summarily execute those considered the "worst". Despite many on this board proposing this as a possible "solution", this is by far the least likely outcome. How many CO's (or any halfway's moral human) would actually take perhaps dozens from their cells, march them out to some ditch, and calmly put a bullet in the back of their heads?

The one certain thing, as I see it, is that incarcerated individuals--either dying in prison or set free to roam the countryside--will be one of the real horrors of a SHTF.
 

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Wrong Side of Heaven
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My neighbor was a warden. This was asked. If local they are moved, was all smiles and they had a plan. Then I asked what about if it was global, and infrastructure was going to be down long term. They got quiet and wanted to change the subject, I didnt press and got the feeling they dont really know or want to admit what is going to happen.

I had assumed there would be a procedure as there is for just about everything else. But then again do they want to let the public really know the only options available.
 

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I am sure the government lackies would kill without thinking. Many decent people would die needlessly. Some are harsh career criminals. Most are people who just got caught. I would dare say most on this board have broken laws of some sort but just not been caught. Heck, carrying a fixed blade knife on your belt and have your jacket over it is a crime here in VA. Don't start with a dreaded boot knife. Speeding. Ever make your own "large firecracker"?

Drink a shot of shine before? Perhaps pick up a quart for the holidays? Felon. You deserve death for that by some standards here. You just weren't caught, does that make you better than the guy that did get caught?
 

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Master Rationalizer
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Whats your opinion on how to handle medium/minimum security, and city or county jail inmates?
That could be anything from tax fraud to a DUI, or whatever else. Heck--realistically, every one of us likely does something regularly that would get us a short visit there and we don't even realize it. Cut them loose. School of hard knocks will take over from there.
 

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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FBOP retired.

There are plans in red books locked in the warden's safe that tell him what to do in such a situation. They are marked FOUO and are FOI exempt. "We" will never know what is in those books until the day they are implemented. Anybody who tells you different in regard to the Federal system should be given the "OH REALLY?" look.
 

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There's a bunch of prisons in the middle of big farms SW of Houston.
Stringfellow, Terrell, Ramsey.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/har...damaged-harvey-workers-inmates-pitching-clean

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/29/two-more-texas-prisons-evacuated-harvey-flooding-continues/

Evacuated during Hurricane Harvey.


Do the prisoners work those farms or is that just where they decided to put the prisons?
I don't recall seeing prisoners in those fields.
Some of the lower risk or well behaved prisoners work the farms. Down around the Lake Jackson area there are a number of prisons and I've seen prisioners out in the fields on tractors alone, with no guard in sight. I'm assuming they are he best of the worst. And yes a few take advantage and decide to run. I've been through a number of State Trooper road blocks that were trying to catch an escaped prisioner.
 

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Wile E Coyote, Genius.
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Some of the lower risk or well behaved prisoners work the farms. Down around the Lake Jackson area there are a number of prisons and I've seen prisioners out in the fields on tractors alone, with no guard in sight. I'm assuming they are he best of the worst. And yes a few take advantage and decide to run. I've been through a number of State Trooper road blocks that were trying to catch an escaped prisioner.
I assume a guard with a high powered rifle is watching them from a tower somewhere.

There are signs along the road warning not to stop for hitch hikers.
 

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The fact that most prisoners (close to 95%) get released, seems to be forgotten. They're out there walking around right now. Some have even done some pretty bad things, yet they served their time and are out in the public in numbers that might astonish some.

A SHTF situation might speed up the release of prisoners who are destined to released anyway. If they can't be safely housed or fed and were expected to be released, then I imagine they would be released...sooner than later.
 

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Semper Fi
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I am sure the government lackies would kill without thinking. Many decent people would die needlessly. Some are harsh career criminals. Most are people who just got caught. I would dare say most on this board have broken laws of some sort but just not been caught. Heck, carrying a fixed blade knife on your belt and have your jacket over it is a crime here in VA. Don't start with a dreaded boot knife. Speeding. Ever make your own "large firecracker"?

Drink a shot of shine before? Perhaps pick up a quart for the holidays? Felon. You deserve death for that by some standards here. You just weren't caught, does that make you better than the guy that did get caught?
So how many of those nice prisoners will you be inviting to come to your house and spend shtf with you and your wife/kids/etc?
 
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