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Cynical Thinker
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907 Posts
Disclaimer, I am not an anthropologist skilled in the study of ancient civilizations. That being said: Geography is secondary compared to easy access to water. Fresh or saltwater doesn't matter having access to both seems optimal. Major cities are generally sheltered ports or situated on major waterways. Wherever a major river empties to the sea especially so.

On a sidenote, the Seminole and Miccosukee tribes survived in the Florida Everglades before air conditioning was invented. The abundant springs that spawned numerous rivers offered relief from the summer heat.

Humanity as a whole has shown to be very adaptive to the enviroment be it sub polar to tropical, desert nomads moving to the next oasis, to living in the forest, plains, in the mountains or a swamp; it's all about having water.
 

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Free-ish Man
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1,871 Posts
YES.. but they had ...oh... what was the name of those folks... you know... the ones who did all the heavy work in that heat and you didn't even have to pay them.....
and
they seemed more acclimated to working in the heat of the day..
oh..

I know it is on the tip of my tongue...

anyway, they won't be available for work in the heat and humidity and such.
So, the "ones who did the heavy work" who were "more acclimated to working in the heat of the day" aren't included in "humans"? Is that what you're saying? What about the over 2/3 majority of white folks in the south who didn't have any of those "folks that they didn't have to pay"?

I"m well aware that life without AC is less pleasant in the south. Been there, done that. It's not impossible to live there without AC though, as ChrisinGA implied in his post.
 

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Free-ish Man
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1,871 Posts
People did not willingly live in a modern single story ranch home in Florida, or the gulf coast, before air conditioning.
If we ever loose the electric power grid for more than a couple week in the summer, you are going to find out why.

Take a look at the homes people did live in back then. They are multi story with thick walls, high celings, and shaded porches.
I and grew up on a farm with no AC and was at least multi story, and we at least had large electric fans.

Trying to survive the summer in a modern ranch house without grid power would be hell on earth.
I'm well aware that modern buildings are not designed to be lived in without AC. ChrisinGA said,
How do you get cool without electricity? Water and shade are your only options and they usually are insufficient for daily life.
which is simply not true. People lived their entire lives relying on shade and water to keep cool. Eventually they figured out you could add insulation and ventilation to that mix to make things even better. My point was that it is possible for humans to live in the south without AC, that's all. It's sort of comical that folks are disagreeing with me actually. :rolleyes:
 

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ǝnƃoɹ ǝuoƃ
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9,998 Posts
CAW!

Ya'll make a great compelling case to stay far away from the south.

I'd go north, west oar east if I where you.
 

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Premium Member
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4,450 Posts
For sure you can live most anywhere on earth
Comfort is another issue
Lived in the mountains of So Cal and used swamp cooler
100° - no problem. Very comfortable.
The swamp cooler is a beautiful thing
Now here in the Ozarks
80° and no A/C and I am not comfortable with the humidity
But I can survive it
In a lot of places, you have six good months and six bad months
Chopped up in three month increments
I can survive here year round
I am comfortable here at a cost
Based on my experience, if you want to live without heating and cooling
Move to San Diego area
 

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spirit animal / unicorn
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1,979 Posts
You've got to dance with the one that brung ya...

NJ and other places in the north are going to be something like the last level of Doom. That said, there are good things about the place, and it's not irredeemable.

People who aren't from here don't always know as much about it as they think they do.

Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are supposed to be pretty nice.

There are places I could drive out to in NJ or upstate NY that could make me feel like I was in a totally different region of the country. The stereotype about a place is only a little part of the real story. There are places in easy reach of NYC where I could see all the stars at night.

One final point-- I keep seeing all these awful statistics about American obesity, consumption of alcohol, and way out-of-shape recruits showing up to boot camp. I don't know what people are responsible for these stats, but it doesn't seem like it's the people from over here.

Once World War Z begins, we're a lot further from the Mexican border, too.
 

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Born 120 years too late.
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4,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #89
FLOODS and storms sweeping the Carolinas
emergencies being declared
roads closed due to flooding...

and this is "winter."

Gonna be an interesting Spring for you folks...
 

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Rogue
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1,617 Posts
I"m well aware that life without AC is less pleasant in the south. Been there, done that. It's not impossible to live there without AC though, as ChrisinGA implied in his post.
I did not imply that humans could not live in the South. I was simply pointing out that not only is it uncomfortable it would also be difficult for those not acclimated to the climate to manage the much heavier workload associated with a world without electricity during summer.

Now I will point out that many modern humans are soft. They are over weight, used to temperature controlled environments, and are accustomed to powered tools doing the bulk of their work. They are far cry from those humans from the past you are referring to.
 

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Born 120 years too late.
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4,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #91
I did not imply that humans could not live in the South. I was simply pointing out that not only is it uncomfortable it would also be difficult for those not acclimated to the climate to manage the much heavier workload associated with a world without electricity during summer.

Now I will point out that many modern humans are soft. They are over weight, used to temperature controlled environments, and are accustomed to powered tools doing the bulk of their work. They are far cry from those humans from the past you are referring to.
^^^^^^^^^

:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
 

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Registered
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9,242 Posts
People can survive every climate on earth. Since the south has such a high population its obvious that its a place people can live.

Which is the problem.

The best places to survive....are where all the people right NOW are living. (The handful of big cities in the desert not withstanding)

But thats the problem for the survivalist. All the nice flat places near water in warm climates, are where millions upon millions of people are already living.

The trick for us, is to learn to live RIGHT NOW, in the places where most normal people don't.
 

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Retired kafir
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17,156 Posts
It's a toss up

WHEN IT comes to survival and all that will entail if the wheels come off?

There really are advantages and disadvantages to both locations, the most obvious being weather related... or maybe not.
The good places are where the people will be. I don't want to be where the people will be.

Arid and semi-arid places can be made to grow food with irrigation and reservoirs. My ancestors did it 150 years ago and they had nothing but their own backs and some livestock to help out.

I'm guessing that after a SHTF event most people will migrate to the easy places. If they can. Long, cold, hard and snowy winters will repel a lot of people from the north. Lack of A/C will repel a lot of people from the south.

I think people who can tough it out in the hard places will be the winners.
 

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139 Posts
Any place with a good winter freeze to kill off bugs is going to be better for agriculture so long as it has a nice warm period for growing. One con of the deep south(gulf coast Louisiana) where I'm at is it honestly sucks to grow food here without modern artificial bug kill offs. On the other hand I live about 5 miles from the largest swampland land in North America, one of the largest in the world. People get lost in it, but if you know it on a local level you can make a living in it, and some people still do.

My home is what I know, and with the extended group of friends, and family I have we would honestly be able to organize, and get stuff done. That is after we all stop complaining, and realize the situation we're in. The close knit nature of cajun family/friend groups, combined with our ability to hunt/gather does make for a potential advantage for survivability. Hell, I know I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a few hundred cajuns in SHTF trying to survive.

Our ancestors handled the heat/humidity down here enough to survive, though they were poor as it got back then. South Louisiana was one of the most isolated places in the continental U.S. before modern transportation, and infrastructure. While the bridges coming past the swamps wont just collapse in SHTF(at least not for years), the humidity will get to people attempting to march around down here. Ye oldie cajuns traveled by water for a reason, was easier, less exhausting, imagine we'd go back to using the bayou as our main means of transport. Locking down the bayou in your local area with check points would be easier than you'd think with a decent size group.

Edit: Just thought about how fast everything would grow over without regular maintenance from people cutting grass, and keeping the bush back. This place will become a jungle fast.
 

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Reach-out Kill enemy
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301 Posts
Just a first blush, quick response....SE.
Longer growing season and less problems associated with trying to stay alive and warm in winter.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
my thoughts exactly that is why i moved there 30 Years a go....not to far from Oklahoma, & Arkansas
 

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Reach-out Kill enemy
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301 Posts
That is much of what I was going to write when answering the question: "DO YOU think it is more advantageous to be NORTH or SOUTH?"

Although I think it also depends on the situation, what kind of disaster or survival scenario and what people are used to.

If people like hot weather and not used to cold weather or somewhat cool summers they better stay where they are.

There are a few too many huge cities in the north but seems like way too many big cities and crowded areas in general in warm areas.

I like uncrowded areas where I might not see any people for days even weeks at a time. Not sure if there are many areas like that in southern states?

I bought land where there is abundant good clean air and water. Not sure if that is the case in most areas in southern states?

I also really dislike mosquitoes and other biting insects. And high in the Rocky Mountains where I am most familiar, camp, work and Live at 9,500 feet with abundant snow there are usually only mosquitoes etc. from late June to maybe early September.
And not too many mosquitoes etc. at all if it is a dry summer.

I also really like greenhouses where I can grow food more than half the year. And in my mountain area there is abundant deer, elk, moose, grouse and other birds and large numbers of trout in various water ways; mainly a couple lakes, a river and many creeks.

Also wonder if being closer to Canada or Mexico is good or bad? I would say better to be closer to Canada than the possibility of millions coming over the border from many countries most likely over the US - Mexico border.

I just got back from an almost 4 day adventure snowmobiling and snow shoeing in my mountain area here in Wyoming. An 86 year old neighbor wanted me to go along with him up there. He is originally from Alabama but moved to Wyoming when he was 20 and he worked as a teacher at the U of WY even though he could not read very well. He and his wife have a huge cabin about half a mile from my mtn place and needed to melt the snow off of his roof.
It took a day or so running his large wood stove to melt the 6 feet of snow off of his roof and got the temp up to about 90 degrees F. but I likely will make a new pic thread showing and telling about that in the not too distant future.

I also spent a few hours shoveling the snow off of my camper trailer etc. which was hard but good exercise and the air was so extremely clean. More later about that maybe.
Not sure if there is snowmobiling or snowshoeing etc. anywhere in any southern states? Especially with over 6 feet of snowpack even up to 10 or more feet some years. Nice to have 4 different seasons. But that is another interesting topic.

Btw, in Denver today, Feb. 2, 2020, it got up to 71 degrees F. and even 52 F. here in southern Wyoming although it is going to get colder tomorrow. But gradually get warmer even likely up to 80 degrees F. by July.
Hi Mike its great to know you are still alive and kicking... I miss our chats...i look forward to a few words from you and the pictures you are planning to post.. I admire anyone who can live and thrive at those altitudes Best Wishes Therin
 

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American fearmaker
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14,240 Posts
I grew up in the north, Illinois, and lived some in the south, Tennessee and Alabama, where I have kith and kin. I also spent a year in Georgia going through military training.

The land in the north is much more fertile than it is down south. That means you can grow things much easier than in the southern states. Down south the temperatures for survival are better suited as extreme cold doesn't really take effect as much. In Illinois if we don't get a foot of snow and freezing temperatures, we haven't had a winter.

Down south a 1 inch snowfall and they think that they've suffered the end of times. On top of that, people down south can't drive on snow at all. Once you get south of the Ohio River, none of those states own snowplows any way because most snow is gone inside of 24 to 48 hours.

Probably the best overall place to survive would be along a southern coast. Anywhere along the Florida coastline and Georgia coastline would be a good place to locate because then you would have access to both the bounty of land and sea. You could hunt and fish in freshwater or go out to sea and fish in the salt water of the ocean as well. The temperatures would remain warm enough for you to survive most of the year without needing heat to stay alive. Only on occasions would you need to use the air conditioning. Most of the time at night you wouldn't need to use it at all because of breezes.

Yep, a good southern coastline is the way to go for the best overall survival chances.
 

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354 Posts
Bad weather happens everywhere. It's what you get used to. Even moving up from Orlando, FL to Lake City FL the weather is different. Up here we get lots of cold fronts, slamming into warm spots and dumping rain, wind, freezes etc. More often than not by the time it reaches Orlando it's fizzled out.
I grew up in Orlando, if you didn't like the weather, wait fifteen minutes. Showers, T-Storms pass quickly. Cold usually burns off by noon. But man the humidity and heat is like a sauna. Didn't used to be so bad when I was a kid in the 80's and mostly everything was Orange Groves, but the city is a concrete monster now and it holds the heat.
Lake City in contrast seems to have more extreme weather in comparison to Orlando. Cold fronts are still strong by the time they get here. Summers are still hot though. Just because it's hot, doesn't mean you'll have a long growing season. That heat will burn your crops, or they just won't grow. The soil is mostly sand here too, even inland, which can make growing difficult.

Hurricanes, like Tornado alley, and earthquakes on the west, or your snow storms up north are just something you have to prepare for. They ALL suck. But if you like where you live, you live with it.

There's nothing worse than being in the Devil's freezer, and there's nothing worse than being in the Devil's sauna. Staying warm is hard and staying cool is hard. Both extremes suck.
 
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