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Looking ahead
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Discussion Starter #1
I occasionally cross paths with bums and beggars. They show up at places like gas stations grocery stores and just about anywhere else theres lots of people. Some have a sob story and some are downright rude and pushy.

We aren't even in a real depression yet but I'm wondering if anyone has put thought into how they will handle this. I expect that hardship and desperation will increase the numbers of people rushing up to you at the gas pumps and as your pushing your grocery cart to the car. I also expect that the law wouldn't look kindly on drawing down on someone who isn't presenting a threat to your life, yet.

What is really worrisome is the thought of my wife and daughter being approached while filling the tank or picking up a cart of food. As I said these people aren't especially nice and seldom accept your first second or third request to leave you alone.

What do you all do now and what do you plan to do in the future? Keep in mind in a depression there will be laws and cops so gunning people down isn't without repercussions.
 

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Looking ahead
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Discussion Starter #4
I usually notice these folks before they even say anything. My favorite thing to do is beat them to the punch and say "hey man, can I get a quarter". The reaction is priceless.
I've done that myself a couple of times :D:. However its not very effective when you are seen with money or food like when your going in or out of a store. They know you have money if your going in for groceries and when your coming out of the store whats to stop the harassing or a grab and go?


have a read through www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

there is lots of good information about the mind set and tactics necessary for crime avoidence
Thanks for the link I'll check into that. I agree with the quick overview that recognizing threats and avoiding them is the best way to deal with them. I just think that sooner or later its going to be unavoidable and you or your family is going to end up as slow moving target with a full cart of groceries, or worst caught in mid-refueling at the gas pump.

Theres a thin line between a pushy beggar and a thug, a depression will create more of the latter.
 

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I ran into something similar the other day at Meijers but it was INSIDE the store. Guy approached me asking if he could pay for my groceries and I would reimburse him with cash? I told him I didn't carry cash on me and proceeded to the courtesy clerk after watching him approach a couple more people.

Any thoughts on why this would be? One person I spoke to stated maybe they were using an ebt card (Guess it's the "electronic" form of food stamps") and was looking for cash instead.

While I state that it didn't freak it me out it did make me a bit Leary. Now that it's cooling down some if I go anywhere after "evening" hours I take my dog with me. If hubby even raises his voice (ie yelling from one end of the house to the other) my dog places himself between me and hubby so I feel pretty safe, while I know if someone really wanted something bad enough the dog isn't going to stop them but since he's over 100lbs and looks pretty dang mean, (he's a shepherd/Rhodesian cross) he's been a good deterrent thus far! I'm also one of those silly girls who will park as near to the door as I can get and won't hesitate to ask security to walk me out if I feel uneasy. Unnecessary at times, probably, but I have 3 little girls that need their mommy around so I'd much rather be safe than sorry!
 

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Looking ahead
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Discussion Starter #6
One possible guess is that the man had a credit card (maybe someone elses) and wanted a way to safely milk it for untraceable cash. Or he has a cash only habit, drugs, gambling etc...

Its true that just because your inside a store doesn't mean its a safe place or that others have to play fair.
 

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Inglourious Basterd
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The only place I see indigents ,is at the highway exit of my city. They especially like to come out on the cold or rainy days to add effect to their hopelessness. I have given them money a few times but I don't make a habit of it. I am going to lose my job in Dec. ,that I have been employed at for 19+ years ,along with 1,400 of my fellow workers and I can't predict what the future holds for me.And another company near me is laying off 7000-10,000 workers as well. So while I myself have been financially responsible over the last 20 years and I don't have much debt,and I will be able to survive at a new job for less money , most folks are not so disciplined and face great hardship in a shrinking job market. I expect to see alot more homeless people roaming the streets in the near future,some of them being people I know personally.
 

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Looking ahead
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Discussion Starter #8
Sorry to hear that Apocalypse. That adds a whole different angle to your situation. Its going to be rougher for you to see friends in that situation and rougher still when your approached by people who know you by name and have a history with you. Its possible that they would be even more pissed off if you don't help them since you know them and know they aren't lying about needing food/money.

Good luck.
 
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Keep in mind in a depression there will be laws and cops so gunning people down isn't without repercussions.
You mean… You mean… my wet dream of becoming a warlord in my little retreat full of hot slaves and gunning down zombie looters wont come true?? Noooo!!:D:

What is really worrisome is the thought of my wife and daughter being approached while filling the tank or picking up a cart of food. As I said these people aren't especially nice and seldom accept your first second or third request to leave you alone.

That will be a problem for sure, and you are right, shooting someone for anything less than a legitimate threat to your life will likely land you in jail. A rude, even a lightly violent beggar hardly qualifies.

That’s why people that are serious about self defense always advice to have LTL alternatives on you as well. For size and efficiency, a small can of OC spray is one of the best alternatives.
You need something to deal with the situation before it escalates to lethal force, specially if you dont have much hand to hand training.

For the situation you describe, I’d recommend to get either Sabre Red or Fox OC spray for both your wife and daughter. Make sure to get one that is small enough for them to carry comfortably, if you handle them a huge bear can they’ll likely leave it at home instead.

1) Always having the can handy and ready (exterior purse pocket, keychain, belt clip) when the beggar starts it’s usual rambling, best thing to do is to look him straight in the eye and with a leveled voice, but without sounding too agressive, say something like “I’m sorry sir, I really cant’ afford to help you”, while keeping a prudent distance. Generally, that straight forward approach works surprisingly well.

2) If the beggar continues or even worse, tries to get hold of you, spray him in the face and cry for help. Beggar or not, you already said no and this person has no business touching you.


FerFAL
 

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Information is Ammunition
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when i get beggars hitting me coming out of the store I tell them I dont carry money. I'll offer a water or something- they only want money though
 
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cute is not always enough
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when i get beggars hitting me coming out of the store I tell them I dont carry money. I'll offer a water or something- they only want money though
talking to them is a mistake. you want to end the confrontation fast not open the door for more problems

do not let them get close to you
do not listen to their story
do not be polite but do not be threatening
tell them you will not give them anything
tell them to go away
get help

it will take you a while to plow through the site and there is a lot more there than just keeping an eye out. crime avoidance continues right up to the actual crime. the author describes mindset, history, threats, practices, and pitfalls of crimes and criminals

for example, the space between parked cars is dangerous. if you open the car door it is even worse because now it is a dead end. going there may be just the edge the bum needs to go from obnoxious to criminal behaviour. if you or you wife are confronted by a bum who will just not go away the best thing to do is go back to the store. it might cost you a few minutes but it might save you from a crime.

normal people do not look at it this way for several reasons. being in a car is relatively safe but in this case getting there will put you at more risk. most people concentrate on getting away from the situation because they just want it to be over but they need to focus on dealing with the problem in the safest manner not the fastest manner.

if a crime is not targeted in advance the chances are that any action that makes the crime more difficult will stop it. opportunity criminals are generally to sensible or to scared to push the issue very far... they can just go find an easier target

but there is not magic bullet, no 12 step process. if you want to be secure you need to make it a lifestyle.
 

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I had a guy begging for food as I drove up to order some fast food, I was late to work and didn't have time for something else. He asked me to buy him something to eat, I told him to get bent and he didn't like that. I finished my order and drove around the corner, but kept my eyes on him. Sure enough he started to run toward my car. I jumped out with a 21" collapsible baton and extended it with a quick flick. Needless to say he was completely stunned and ran off quickly in the other direction. There was a girl inside looking through the windows, she was wiping down the tables, her eyes were as big as saucers as she watched what had happened.

I always keep alert when I notice that beggars or panhandlers are around.
 

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I was sitting in a gas line one day in a crappy town and seen a guy going from car to car getting really loud with people,reaching in there car takeing change from ashtrays and they were so scared they were giving this guy money! :eek: He made it up to my truck and stuck his head in the window and said gimme some money maaaan,I said it's right here,pointed a .357 right in his face,he held up his hands and said ,i was just kiddin' maaaaan. He took off behind the building,guess he had enough money :cool: (I did'nt get my gas)
 

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Shuriken snowflake
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Maybe the situation is different here. I know it's even different here compared to our capital. There are a few people asking for money and I usually gave them some. Not that I have a lot to give. I never asked them any questions, but I talked to them like I would have a friend. And even those acting hostile from the start, sort of relaxed. I got under their skin a little. Seems like almost all beggars I met here have some grade of schizophrenia or psychosis. There is always something out to get them/voices etc. One used to always buy canned fish and cigs. Smoked like a chimney. I hear schizos often self medicate with nicotine. Who am I to judge?
 

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I'm from Jersey so people expect me to be rude :thumb: most of the time. I know this is gonna sound stupid but I do it all the time when Im in NYC and it always works. As soon as someone asks me for a handout I just speak to them in Japanese and they walk away. Another thing that works is to just to say " Do I look like a f*c*ing tourist" Most street people rely on others not being rude. But the Japanese thing works every time.
 

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American
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Its horrible here in Chicago. Its mostly more of people you forcing you to have their service and them charging you for it. I was walking one time, and this black guy whose name he told me was robert, but his nametag said john, gave me a tour of the skyline which was basically completely inaccurate and then charged me 13.95 and i said take a hike.
 

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CabinBuilder/Author
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Good Thread. Yes, it'll get much worse.

One thing i've done is ask them if they want to work for it. Usually that shut them up.

Mac gives good advice.

Another thought i had, tell them to go 'over there' (somewhere 40 yards away from you) as you'll drive by there to pick up your wife/kid, and that you'll be right there to give them some money. Then drive the hell outta there. Anything to divert their attention.
 

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i got a look when geting out of my car most people leave me alone when walking into a gas station and those who do come my way after i tell them to get lost in a tone voice that they get the idea to leave me alone
plus when you get out a crown vic with gov tags most people try to not come around you for there saying police under there breath
 

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i tell them to get lost or when it hot out they see my belt badge and duty weapon and take off before they get to me
i have did this as a joke one day call a friend up who hires day labors and sent him down to the area they hang around in the morning and both him and i have told them get into the truck and they would have money and something to eat that day with me standing with my belt badge showing under my jacket
most take off real quick like and do not hang around the gas station they come back in a couple hours we do this to gas station that on the border with a indian land so to drive the beggers off when the people come out for the casino that they have been playing at
 
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