[silverbear]

This is actually a repost from another militaryfirearm forums, but those guys are heavily biased towards the CETME, and I wanted to see what a different group (and from the forum posts I have read here, I think it is more PTR favored) had to say:
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PTR-91 GI ($900) vs CETME ($500). What would you choose?
I am looking for my first 308 semi-auto rifle. I am trying to decide between the PTR-91 GI, and the Century Arms CETME.
My take so far...

PTR, Pros:
1) Internets have decided it is a markedly better build and nicer quality then CETME
2) I like the sights better
3) People have claimed the PTR is picky with ammo, but supposedly the GI model was specifically built to handle different types of ammo and be much less strict.

PTR, cons:
1) Price (wife does not like this)
2) Possible issue with ammo if the GI line I am hearing is BS

CETME, pros:
1) Cheap - almost half the price (Wife happier)
2) Handles different ammo

CETME, cons:
1) (From what I read from other people) Hit or Miss build quality. I don't want to miss.
2) Don't like the sights as much - possible problems with sights being aligned on some guns.

So basically it comes down to should I take a chance and go for the less expensive CETME, or play it safe since I'm new to this and step upto the PTR-91 for another $400 bucks.

It's honestly very difficult to get a take on Century. I have read posts that Century has fixed their production problems completely, but then I see people in the forums having problems with brand new rifles.

UPDATE #1
Then I read threads like this:
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum...ight=ptr-91+gi

claiming that the PTR-91 G1 has issues with bolts shattering?!?!?

 

[TinmanIA]

Having fired an HK91, same thing basically. I am a bit biased. The CETME is a good gun to, but if I were to spend the money Id get another L1A1, I kinda miss mine.

 

[Jungleboy]

I'de go with the FAL myself.:thumb:

 

[silverbear]

Having fired an HK91, same thing basically. I am a bit biased. The CETME is a good gun to, but if I were to spend the money Id get another L1A1, I kinda miss mine.

So you'd go with the PTR? Do you just miss the FAL and are nostalgic, or do you think it's a better gun (reliability, accuracy, value, or all 3?)

 

[silverbear]

I'de go with the FAL myself.:thumb:

I considered them previously, but they cost 800-1000 which puts them in the PTR range.

Why do you think they are better? reliability, accuracy, value, or all 3?

Do you think its worth it to by the fal when you can get a cetme for $500?

 

[TinmanIA]

So you'd go with the PTR? Do you just miss the FAL and are nostalgic, or do you think it's a better gun (reliability, accuracy, value, or all 3?)

Of the two yes I'd go PTR. As far as FAL vs PTR Id say there even on a lot of plains. Id have to say my L1 had a nicer trigger than the HK91, but I think the HK is a bit more accurate since its a delayed blowback instead of gas operated.Its not by much but if you plan to put glass on this weapon you'll notice. The delayed blowback does make the chamber area pretty dirty fast.


The L1A1 has much better options for mounting glass than the PTR. I had a railed top cover on my L1 and it was the wales balls. The HK style mount is higher priced, and kinda tricky to get leveled. With the 2.5 inches or so from glass to barrel that base needs to be dead balls level.

 

[BlueHarvest76]

Go with the PTR over the Cetme, get a Cetme later on if u still wanna tinker with one. I own a PTR, a DSA para, and an M1A, none of them are super easy to put a rail on.

The DSA has the rail, i bought one from DSA, but it took forever to get just the mount on, and let me tell you, i'm NEVER taking it off,

I plan on buying a mount for my M1A, but the descent ones are not cheap,,200 bucks and up.

The HK, same thing, not cheap to buy a mount, and i'm talking a good one,,if u wanna purchase one for 50 bucks from CTD, then please just throw that money into a blender.

I'm not sold on buying any AR-10 style rifle yet. The only upside is the flat top rail system, but mags and parts make this rifle a bust for SHTF.

 

[rover]

I would get a FAL before I even thought about a PTR or Cetme.

But if you really just want one, look at the Century C93 in 5.56, cetme is a very heavy gun with a very picky operating system. just my opinion thou, FALs rock! they are the super swingin sexy 308 black rifle.

 

[Rascals]

Cetme no thanks, The PTR has a really nice sight picture which I like for up close. But for further out Ill take a Fal or an M1a. Ohh dont for get the AR10 good gun I just dont like the problem with sharring mags. Most people dont store 30 or 40 of them to have around at there price.

 

[mefunkymxw]

I considered them previously, but they cost 800-1000 which puts them in the PTR range.

Why do you think they are better? reliability, accuracy, value, or all 3?

Do you think its worth it to by the fal when you can get a cetme for $500?

i prefer the FAL for its ergonomics (you can operate the bolt lock and mag release with the same hand) and overall design (tilt locking, piston driven with gas adjustment), not to mention the last round bolt hold open...

if someone were to hold a gun to my head and make me choose between a ptr and a cetme i would definitely go with the ptr, hands down. a buddy of mine has a hesse cetme and it is pretty much garbage... it goes bang every time, but he has got the rear sight maxed out on the right and groups are still hitting about an inch left @ 25 yards... if he ever gets an optic he can overcome this, but for now he has to do some kentucky windage... poor overall quality as well.

 

[mefunkymxw]

Go with the PTR over the Cetme, get a Cetme later on if u still wanna tinker with one. I own a PTR, a DSA para, and an M1A, none of them are super easy to put a rail on.

the para fals are more difficult to adapt for a railed top cover since they have a different recoil spring location than a standard fal... the standard fals are super easy to put a rail on...

 

[drobs]

Owned Century Arms Cetme. I would hold out for the PTR91 GI. Action on the two were apples to oranges different.

The PTR91's bolt and charging handle feels like it rides on ball bearings.
The Cetme's bolt and charging handle feels like it rides on gritty gravel.

It takes physical muscle to charge the Cetme. The PTR is a work of art.

The action on the Cetme can be cleaned up, if you don't mind a work out. Charge the Cetme a couple hundred times while watching TV some night to help those parts wear in together. I wouldn't recommend that if you live in an apartment, as the action is really noisey.

The Cetme may or may not work with HK magazines. Some Cetme magwells are longer than HK style rifles (mine was). If you are good with a dremel you can grind the base of the mag well so it will lock in HK mags.

Keep looking around and you might find a deal on a used Cetme. Years ago they sold for $375. It's possible to find those prices occasionally on used guns.

When I 1st looked at buying a Cetme the one I looked at had a pinned on muzzle brake. Problem was that the pin was protruding into the barrel of the gun. You could see when you peered down the barrel. I chose to buy a Romanian Sar-1 instead. (Something to look for when handling Cetmes).

Later on I bought a Cetme. The Cetme and ORF FAL I owned are now gone and finally replaced by a Springfield M1A. Neither the Cetme or FAL, IMHO were accurate enough to expend the pricey ammunition.

The FAL was a good gun and I would take a DSA over a Cetme or PTR91.
I still may pick up a DSA to go with my M1A.

 

[Heckler&Coke]

I've owned them both, CETME is by far the loser. The PTR is a MUCH superior rifle. If you could somehow get to handle them both, or take them both to a range, you will instantly choose the PTR, even if your wife is mad.

PTR, Pros:
1) Internets have decided it is a markedly better build and nicer quality then CETME
2) I like the sights better
3) People have claimed the PTR is picky with ammo, but supposedly the GI model was specifically built to handle different types of ammo and be much less strict. The actual PTR was never anymore picky than either the FAL or M1. The G.I. is the junk gobler of the lot.

PTR, cons:
1) Price (wife does not like this)
Price as a con? $850 for a PTR GI is a steal for the class of rifle it's in.2) Possible issue with ammo if the GI line I am hearing is BS It's not, no ammo problems.

CETME, pros:
1) Cheap - almost half the price (Wife happier) Not cheap. For a good cetme you're looking at another $150-200 in parts.
2) Handles different ammo It does? ...no, it doesn't.

CETME, cons:
1) (From what I read from other people) Hit or Miss build quality. I don't want to miss. It's mostly miss, with an occasional hit. Century CETME's are mostly junk. Sorry. They may work "ok", but they are all made with slip shot quality.
2) Don't like the sights as much - possible problems with sights being aligned on some guns.

So basically it comes down to should I take a chance and go for the less expensive CETME, or play it safe since I'm new to this and step upto the PTR-91 for another $400 bucks.

It's honestly very difficult to get a take on Century. I have read posts that Century has fixed their production problems completely, but then I see people in the forums having problems with brand new rifles.

UPDATE #1
Then I read threads like this:
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum...ight=ptr-91+gi

claiming that the PTR-91 G1 has issues with bolts shattering?!?!?

Your link is no worky. PTR had some cracked bolt problems when they switched over to building them inhouse as opposed to using surplus HK...Even if you crack a bolt, they are under warrenty, and a replacement bolt is a cheap DIY.

Whereas with a cetme you almost certainly have improper bolt gap, and a shaven bolt head standard on a "new" rifle.

Here's my brief observations:


CETME

Pros:

Moving on...

Cons:
*$500 (Used bucket of bolts...)
*Need to spend $200 more to make it in spec.
*Rusted up 50 year old parts
*Action feels like you are rubbing fingernails on a chalkboard
*Comes assembled universally bubba rigged with worn out parts. (Shaven bolt heads, improper sight alignment, dented/off centre cocking tubes, unwelded receivers, worn firing pins, worn rollers, worn return springs, horribad triggers, crappy barrels, etc, etc, etc. )
*Won't take HK mags unless you bubba it.


PTR


Pros:
*$900 (For a *new* rifle better than it's $2,000 counterpart...)
*Accepts $1 factory G3 magazines.
*Not as picky on ammo as people say, especially the G.I.
*FULLY interchangeable with the real HK and all 91/G3 parts.
*Good accuracy (Consistent 3-4" with tula...)
*AK reliability


Cons:
*Heavy (Man up!)
*Somewhat pricey ( DSA, M1A, HK91, all hundreds more than a PTR...)

 

[silverbear]

Cons:
*$500 (Used bucket of bolts...)
*Need to spend $200 more to make it in spec.
*Rusted up 50 year old parts
*Action feels like you are rubbing fingernails on a chalkboard
*Comes assembled universally bubba rigged with worn out parts. (Shaven bolt heads, improper sight alignment, dented/off centre cocking tubes, unwelded receivers, worn firing pins, worn rollers, worn return springs, horribad triggers, crappy barrels, etc, etc, etc. )
*Won't take HK mags unless you bubba it.


PTR


Pros:
*$900 (For a *new* rifle better than it's $2,000 counterpart...)
*Accepts $1 factory G3 magazines.
*Not as picky on ammo as people say, especially the G.I.
*FULLY interchangeable with the real HK and all 91/G3 parts.
*Good accuracy (Consistent 3-4" with tula...)
*AK reliability


Cons:
*Heavy (Man up!)
*Somewhat pricey ( DSA, M1A, HK91, all hundreds more than a PTR...)

I thought the PTR was lighter then the CETME?

Thanks man, this has been a very convincing post.

 

[Heckler&Coke]

I thought the PTR was lighter then the CETME?

Thanks man, this has been a very convincing post.

The G.I. may be, but the standard PTR is heavier with the Match BBL, and aluminum handguards. But I really don't mind the weight.

Pic related, my 3 PTRs:

I had a "new" cetme, but I can't find the pics...I sold it off on gunbroker awhile back.

 

[silverbear]

For the guys who like the FAL - why do you like it over the PTR?

 

[Heckler&Coke]

For the guys who like the FAL - why do you like it over the PTR?

The FAL is generally "more ergonomic"...

Everything else is splitting hairs. I personally hate the FAL, but I do like the M1A. The PTR is my fav though...

 

[mefunkymxw]

For the guys who like the FAL - why do you like it over the PTR?

FAL PROs (over the PTR);
able to actuate the charging handle without reaching two feet in front of your face... has a last round bolt hold open mechanism so you can change mags and just hit the bolt release all with the same hand (as opposed to having to charge again using the handle)... adjustable gas system so you can change felt recoil a little bit, and not have your brass ejected at the speed of light, you have some grip options (i put ergo grip on mine and i think that the ptr grip is attached to the lower and can't be swapped easily).

PTR PROs (over the FAL);
i do like the cheap PTR mags though, very reliable with all types of ammo, probably a slight edge in accuracy (my fal is probably a 2 moa gun with winchester white box 150 fmjbt), generally a little cheaper for comprable quality

 

[Heckler&Coke]

FAL PROs (over the PTR);
able to actuate the charging handle without reaching two feet in front of your face... has a last round bolt hold open mechanism so you can change mags and just hit the bolt release all with the same hand (as opposed to having to charge again using the handle)... adjustable gas system so you can change felt recoil a little bit, and not have your brass ejected at the speed of light, you have some grip options (i put ergo grip on mine and i think that the ptr grip is attached to the lower and can't be swapped easily).

PTR PROs (over the FAL);
i do like the cheap PTR mags though, very reliable with all types of ammo, probably a slight edge in accuracy (my fal is probably a 2 moa gun with winchester white box 150 fmjbt), generally a little cheaper for comprable quality

Yes, yes! Finally... Props to you.

:thumb:

Just a note though, you say charging "again"... You don't have to move the charging handle but once. When you hear click, you bring it back and lock it, change mags, then slap it down. (Manual BHO : ) It's really not that bad of a process, especially when you get a little training/playtime with it.

You've got to remember, the same year rollerlocks where being designed, all armies except the USA were still using bolt actions.

Though I will admit, the FAL reload is quicker, but once you get the hang of the HK style, it's really not a big deal. Especially when you have a general idea of how many rounds you have left and just avoid it by slapping a fresh mag in. Something more frequently done in combat than at a range, despite BHO and push button releases in the M4...

 

[mefunkymxw]

Yes, yes! Finally... Props to you.

:thumb:

Just a note though, you say charging "again"... You don't have to move the charging handle but once. When you hear click, you bring it back and lock it, change mags, then slap it down. (Manual BHO : ) It's really not that bad of a process, especially when you get a little training/playtime with it.

You've got to remember, the same year rollerlocks where being desined, all armies except the USA were still using bolt actions with 5 round internal magazines.

Though I will admit, the FAL reload is quicker, but once you get the hang of the HK style, it's really not a big deal. Especially when you have a general idea of how many rounds you have left and just avoid it by slapping a fresh mag in. Something more frequently done in combat than at a range, despite BHO and push button releases in the M4...

oh trust me i am used to it from the AK...

i have a gsg5 as well, but it actually has a bolt hold open... part of the mag follower design

it really isnt a bad process, but i think it has been overcome... so the question is why not utilize the improvement on the process that was developed way back when.