Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 20 of 91 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In another thread they where discussing equipment for a grid down event from manual labor/tools view point. https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=935314

It was mentioned one could ease into only using handtools.

So lets do a thought experiment. How would you maximize the use of your remaining gas/diesel fuel?

Some parameters to help people have similar answers.

-You have 50 gallons of whatever fuel you want
-You have a small amount of land you can farm/plant crops (think homestead)

Do you use it to? Pick as few or as many options as you want or come up with your own choices.
-Saw a bunch of firewood
-Split the above mentioned wood
-Plow as much land as possible
-Use the fuel to harvest your crops
-Keep some in reserve for your bug out vehicle
-Use it for general transport
-Generator to make electricity
-Other ideas

Or do you use it all to keep your lawn mowed because you fear the HOA will come after you.

--------------
I will comment later on with my thoughts.
 

·
spirit animal / unicorn
Joined
·
2,139 Posts
In another thread they where discussing equipment for a grid down event from manual labor/tools view point. https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=935314

It was mentioned one could ease into only using handtools.

So lets do a thought experiment. How would you maximize the use of your remaining gas/diesel fuel?

Some parameters to help people have similar answers.

-You have 50 gallons of whatever fuel you want
-You have a small amount of land you can farm/plant crops (think homestead)

Do you use it to? Pick as few or as many options as you want or come up with your own choices.
-Saw a bunch of firewood
-Split the above mentioned wood
-Plow as much land as possible
-Use the fuel to harvest your crops
-Keep some in reserve for your bug out vehicle
-Use it for general transport
-Generator to make electricity
-Other ideas

Or do you use it all to keep your lawn mowed because you fear the HOA will come after you.

--------------
I will comment later on with my thoughts.
Interesting question.

I think the absolute #1 priority for fuel is fighting. After that might be traveling to scavenge important goods or rescue significant people.

That's just where my focus is, because I think there will be a lot of fighting here, and there are a lot of people and goods around here.

Beyond that, I don't know. There are probably a lot of smart ways to answer the question. Maybe running refrigeration? Supporting medical equipment? Plugging comms into electricity?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,647 Posts
It is highly dependant upon your situation.

For example:

I am offgrid. A 5 gal can to top off my batteries upon occasion is sufficient for a year.

My current living situation requires ~2 gal of chainsaw gas a year, and I am coppicing trees to make my use of my gas splitter even less.

I have 1,400 sqft of raised beds, and an orchard (not producing yet)
All this designed to minimise my fuel useage

You should ABSOLUTELY keep some fuel for the possibility you may have to leave.

also if you are miserly otherwise you can use some for patrolling (a 55 gal barrel will allow you a sweep of the area 1-2x/week (I believe I calculated 10 miles) and driving a conservative 220 or 250 (I have both, but the 250 kickstarts) 2 Wheel drive 4 wheeler 1-2 miles a day back and forth across your property.
Pulling a small trailer, moving this or that etc for an entire year (with a little to spare)

My Honda EU2000i's will run 6.5 hours per gal of gas under load.
As such the occasional use of power tools (that cannot wait til the batteries are full at 1300-1400 daily) or use too much juice are negligible.

You can do all the above on a 55 gal barrel for a year.

5 years, that's 275 gal.

The remaining 300 odd gal (not counting what's in the vehicles which would be emergency use)
Or perhaps yes, used to put in grain crops for the community.


$0.02, but i put some work into this when I was trying to decide whether or not I should buy mules.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,492 Posts
Great topic. I think we need more 'war gaming' type posts here.

So lets do a thought experiment. How would you maximize the use of your remaining gas/diesel fuel?
I figured this out for myself a long time ago.

Generator is first priority. An hour a month gives me all the clean water I need. So, about 10 gallons a year for water.

About 10 gallons a year for firewood cutting (heat for the home)

A few gallons for the truck to move firewood (only moving a couple hundred yards per trip so very little needed)

Between those two, 50 gallons would make the first couple years fairly easy.

So, Heat and Water.

I can do both without fuel but it would be a lot harder. Food would take care of itself over that time period.

Assuming only 50 gallons...
 

·
Swirl Herder
Joined
·
3,691 Posts
A good diesel powered tractor, up to about 100HP size will burn about 2.5-6 gal/hour depending upon engine size/HP and load.

One operating hour of a 100HP tractor could do work that would take well over 100 hours to do with manual labor. Even the 40 HP tractors that homesteaders seem to pick, can produce ploughed ground in a tiny fraction of the time that would be required for manual methods.

Diesel has long shelf life (>10 years). For those with a tractor (and hopefully some other diesel machines), it would be worth having a lot more than 50 gallons stored.

Like a lot of other farmers, I have more than 1000 gallons of diesel stored.

Diesel can be made from scratch, but even if we ignore that, the amount you aim to store should be based upon how long it's shelf life is and how much you would need to do all the tasks on your personal list up until the diesel would go bad.

For pretty much everyone, that will be a lot more than 50 gallons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Great topic. I think we need more 'war gaming' type posts here.



I figured this out for myself a long time ago.

Generator is first priority. An hour a month gives me all the clean water I need. So, about 10 gallons a year for water.

Assuming only 50 gallons...
Great suggestion on using the gas to power the well. That was not even considered when I made the post.


----------------------------

My plan for 50 gallons of fuel

5 gallons kept in a vehicle that would be ready to bug out with. Probably start it every couple months to keep it from locking up. Have a trickle charger on it to keep battery charged.

10 gallons to power generator. Move all food to deep freezer and power it a few hours a day. Figure out how to preserve as much food as possible. Eat stuff that can not be kept (ice cream) If it is cold enough just move freezer to garage and let WI winters take care of it. Rest of fuel used to power well once a month to refill 300 gallons of water barrels. Also use the generator for power tools that my small solar set up can't handle.

20 gallons for firewood production. Mostly use it for chainsaw. Splitter would be used very little. Only to quarter the really large stuff. Small logs could be done by hand if needed with a maul.

15 gallons for food/farming. Mostly for tilling/plowing the ground.



I would probably try to use the firewood fuel as fast as possible in the first couple months to minimize being targeted. The wood should not go bad before I am able to burn through it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,590 Posts
with a bit of luck 50 gallons of gas would make it the same as now to grow my gardens ,,for the last 10 years I been building a hobby farm with gardening as its center ,I got about a acre under cultivation [in tilled gardens] and been planting trees / bushes for fruit

to work that size area now runs under 10 gallon a year ,,,but over the first several years I was doing thirty or more each year to break the ground and work in compost by the truck loads

the added bonus is if needed the time / work put into the ground would make it a lot easier to maintain with hand tools as opposed to trying to do it[break and improve the ground] after the shtf with hand tools
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Diesel can be made from scratch, but even if we ignore that, the amount you aim to store should be based upon how long it's shelf life is and how much you would need to do all the tasks on your personal list up until the diesel would go bad.

For pretty much everyone, that will be a lot more than 50 gallons.
I agree 50 gallons would not be even close to ideal for almost any survival situation let alone a multiple year one.

Its fairly easy to plan a survival scenario when supplies are nearly limitless. Making a plan with limited resources usually forces one to think harder on their answers.

I chose 50 gallons some what randomly but my thought was most homes have 2 plus cars and a prepper should have a couple 5 gallon cans of fuel. Plus most people here have closer to 50 gallons than 500 gallons of fuel in their possesion or even could possibly store.
 

·
reluctant sinner
Joined
·
17,463 Posts
Interesting question. If you have one of the few operating vehicles, I suspect you will need armor - desperate people do desperate acts.

I'm hoping to go back off grid soon, I lived here without power and a well for more than 7 years. Need more solar panels and a larger battery bank. I would like to get several buried propane tanks with isolation valves.

I'd be saving my last gas for Col. Molotov.

I want design and build a small multi-fueler type diesel to drive a one wire alternator. I want it to run on processed waste oil. I plan to capture the heat off the engine and exhaust for space and water heating. I get no sun in the winter so I need something for the LED's. I don't need air conditioning in the summer, and get lots of sun for solar.

Maybe I'll do a small chest freezer conversion for a refrigerator. I could do a solar ice maker - ammonia salts in a pipe with a reflector to focus the heat. I had some real good plans but my buddy lost them. There are small 120 V ones out there.

I built up a 12 VDC pump system for my well, I have designs for a different piston unit. I can pressure the house with the 12 RV pumps. I'll be getting a 550 gallon water tanks when the snow is gone. I could ditch pump water from the creek for fire protection be nice to have the 3000 gallon pool full.

Chainsaw is great use for fuel - again I think it will draw unwanted attention.
 

·
Live Secret, Live Happy
Joined
·
15,784 Posts
In another thread they where discussing equipment for a grid down event from manual labor/tools view point. https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=935314

It was mentioned one could ease into only using handtools.

So lets do a thought experiment. How would you maximize the use of your remaining gas/diesel fuel?

Some parameters to help people have similar answers.

-You have 50 gallons of whatever fuel you want
-You have a small amount of land you can farm/plant crops (think homestead)

Do you use it to? Pick as few or as many options as you want or come up with your own choices.
-Saw a bunch of firewood
-Split the above mentioned wood
-Plow as much land as possible
-Use the fuel to harvest your crops
-Keep some in reserve for your bug out vehicle
-Use it for general transport
-Generator to make electricity
-Other ideas

Or do you use it all to keep your lawn mowed because you fear the HOA will come after you.

--------------
I will comment later on with my thoughts.
Out of 50 gal, I will reserve the last 20 gal of unlead for evacuation by boat, and 10 gal per year disking the garden and cutting fire wood.
I already use a couple solar panels to run a shallow well pump a store my drinking water in a 3,000 gal tank above the house.
Other solar panels keep RV batteries charged and they run DC lights and my Ham radio.

I should store 500 gal, as I currently use more running tractors and cutting wood, but thats how I would prioritize if I just had 50 gal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
374 Posts
If the emergency could last for years and there was no chance for resupply, I'd fill my truck with fuel, load what's left of the drum into the bed, hook up my trailer, find the closest mule, horse, or donkey, kill the owner and load the mule into the trailer, tie a couple of cinder blocks to the owner's body and dump it into the nearest deep river, and bring the mule back to my place after sundown. Hopefully there would be a few gallons of fuel left that would be hidden away and never used unless my life absolutely depended on it.
Trying to use the fuel a little at a time if there's no reasonable chance of resupply is like a death by a thousand cuts. If the choice is you and yours live, or me and mine live, then I'm going to do whatever is necessary to make sure that the survivor is me and mine.
There's a big difference between responding and planning. Responding can get you killed. If you want to learn about how people successfully survived existential threats, hit the history books. It's not necessary to reinvent the wheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,647 Posts
If the emergency could last for years and there was no chance for resupply, I'd fill my truck with fuel, load what's left of the drum into the bed, hook up my trailer, find the closest mule, horse, or donkey, kill the owner and load the mule into the trailer, tie a couple of cinder blocks to the owner's body and dump it into the nearest deep river, and bring the mule back to my place after sundown. Hopefully there would be a few gallons of fuel left that would be hidden away and never used unless my life absolutely depended on it.
Trying to use the fuel a little at a time if there's no reasonable chance of resupply is like a death by a thousand cuts. If the choice is you and yours live, or me and mine live, then I'm going to do whatever is necessary to make sure that the survivor is me and mine.
There's a big difference between responding and planning. Responding can get you killed. If you want to learn about how people successfully survived existential threats, hit the history books. It's not necessary to reinvent the wheel.
Great plan.

Get shot over something you can pay $2k for now and actually learn how to use.:rolleyes:


(Since you obviously have no morals, no point addressing that.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
I have been told by a car mechanic who works on gas and diesel engines that fuel blends today, even with additives, will not store long term. Does anyone know the actual shelf life of today's fuel, even with additives?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I have been told by a car mechanic who works on gas and diesel engines that fuel blends today, even with additives, will not store long term. Does anyone know the actual shelf life of today's fuel, even with additives?
I have been using 10% ethonal gas that is over 2 years old in my lawn mower and truck without issue. I also used some 2 stroke gas mix that is over 3 years old in my stihl chainsaw without issue. Still starts up in 3 pulls and cuts fine.

It is true that gas that is not 100% has a shorter shelf life and will gum up an engine. But its not so bad that is goes unusable after a few years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,591 Posts
In another thread they where discussing equipment for a grid down event from manual labor/tools view point. https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=935314

It was mentioned one could ease into only using handtools.

So lets do a thought experiment. How would you maximize the use of your remaining gas/diesel fuel?

Some parameters to help people have similar answers.

-You have 50 gallons of whatever fuel you want
-You have a small amount of land you can farm/plant crops (think homestead)

Do you use it to? Pick as few or as many options as you want or come up with your own choices.
-Saw a bunch of firewood
-Split the above mentioned wood
-Plow as much land as possible
-Use the fuel to harvest your crops
-Keep some in reserve for your bug out vehicle
-Use it for general transport
-Generator to make electricity
-Other ideas

Or do you use it all to keep your lawn mowed because you fear the HOA will come after you.

--------------
I will comment later on with my thoughts.
1. Fuel is not stable forever.
2. Wood gasification.
 

·
Swirl Herder
Joined
·
3,691 Posts
I have been told by a car mechanic who works on gas and diesel engines that fuel blends today, even with additives, will not store long term. Does anyone know the actual shelf life of today's fuel, even with additives?
Gasoline formula and consequent shelf life varies the most. Anything with ethanol in it lasts a shorter time.

The more high tech the engine that it is being used in, the shorter the effective shelf life becomes.

My recent experience is that gasoline lasts about 6 months to a few years and diesel lasts >10 years.

When I am rotating stocks of older gasoline, I can get away with blending it with fresher fuel without poor performance - but if that same fuel were all I had, I would expect to see more problems.

I have some diesel that is about 13 years old that still looks/smells good. It was stored with a biocide and cetane booster.

I intend to test it and run it through some engines when it gets to 15 years - I will post about that here when I do.

In my view, all serious survivalists should prioritize having all their key machinery/vehicles run on diesel. The shelf life of gasoline is just too short to be able to make gasoline powered gear part of preps for long term crises.

Diesel is also much safer to store in bulk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
If the emergency could last for years and there was no chance for resupply, I'd fill my truck with fuel, load what's left of the drum into the bed, hook up my trailer, find the closest mule, horse, or donkey, kill the owner and load the mule into the trailer, tie a couple of cinder blocks to the owner's body and dump it into the nearest deep river, and bring the mule back to my place after sundown. Hopefully there would be a few gallons of fuel left that would be hidden away and never used unless my life absolutely depended on it.
Trying to use the fuel a little at a time if there's no reasonable chance of resupply is like a death by a thousand cuts. If the choice is you and yours live, or me and mine live, then I'm going to do whatever is necessary to make sure that the survivor is me and mine.
There's a big difference between responding and planning. Responding can get you killed. If you want to learn about how people successfully survived existential threats, hit the history books. It's not necessary to reinvent the wheel.
Wow you are a horrible person. Thats not prepping or surviving. That is straight up looting/being a raider. No offer to buy/trade with someone just straight up murder right of the bat.

Also you are an idiot because your horse will be dead in 10 years or less since you only stole one and can't breed them for more. I guess that is not a problem because you will just kill person and steal their horse.
 

·
Swirl Herder
Joined
·
3,691 Posts
If the emergency could last for years and there was no chance for resupply, I'd fill my truck with fuel, load what's left of the drum into the bed, hook up my trailer, find the closest mule, horse, or donkey, kill the owner and load the mule into the trailer, tie a couple of cinder blocks to the owner's body and dump it into the nearest deep river, and bring the mule back to my place after sundown. Hopefully there would be a few gallons of fuel left .......
......to burn your stupid thieving body when the local posse finds you and administers summary justice.

It is sad that you chose to put "Prepared" under your user name. Raiders are the antithesis of prepared. In the early stages of a very severe crisis in the US, there will be almost as many raiders dead in ditches as there will be victims of raiders.

In rural areas, hunting down blowins that murder locals could easily become the national sport.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,492 Posts
......to burn your stupid thieving body when the local posse finds you and administers summary justice.
Indeed.

There are times however I wish we had more raiders here, because its good to see how they think as they are what we are preparing for. We can make a lot of guesses on how they think but they are still just guesses at this point.

Even though its distasteful there is value to reading their posts.

But of course, that is what I think would happen. Thats the reason being a raider is such a bad idea. Once word gets out that there is a raider problem, even people with little resources themselves would band together long enough to kill the raiders first.

And the thing about rural area's, is that even if a mule just looks like a mule to a raider, to the locals its called Fred and its belongs to Charlie and if they see you with Fred a week after Charlie disappeared they know what happened and will not let it pass.
 
1 - 20 of 91 Posts
Top