[MadPrepper]

Good thread. Tagging in cuz I have a pond we'll be drinking from if the SHTF.

Not to sidetrack, but I'm thinking about getting a Big Berkey for this purpose. I guess it would work on pond water. I'd probably want to pre-filter it first before it goes in the Berk.

The biggest thing I'm bringing away from this thread is the concept of flocculation.

It seems to be a great pre-treat substitute for a pre-filter.

 

[stephpd]

The biggest thing I'm bringing away from this thread is the concept of flocculation.
It seems to be a great pre-treat substitute for a pre-filter.

Rapid sand filters can't function well for very long without it.
Slow sand filters can't function at all with it.
That's why I continue to say that sand filters and disinfection is just a part of the process. For rapid sand filters to work properly you need the complete process. Coagulation, flocculation,, sedimentation, filtration and disinfection. If I lose my coagulant the raw water passes through my rapid sand filters without catching much of anything. I just can't maintain any sort of water quality without it.

One of the added benefits of flocculation is that it makes a rapid sand filter even more effective. Not all of the floc will fall out and some will end up in the sand filter. This helps the sand hold onto even smaller particles.

But there are limitations on how much the rapid sand filter can hold. Over load it with too much dirty water or too much flocculant carry over shortens the run times on the sand and charcoal. Making backwashing more frequent.

 

[ChrisInGa]

By the way those 5 gallon water cooler jugs work great as flocculation chambers.

Simply turn it upside down like you would putting it into a water croft. Cap the opening so that it can be opened and closed. It must be water proof. Then cut the bottom off so you can pour your water in what is now the top.

A drain line can be connected to the side of the bottle just above the cant line. Make sure you have a valve on it so you can close it up while the water is clearing up. Open the valve to drain the clear water out (potentially through a filter).

When you need to clean the sludge that builds up on the bottom you can now remove the cap you added before and allow it to drain out the bottles original opening.

 

[REM]

I have several glass carboys for home brewing. This is a neat tool that is used to siphon off the brew while leaving behind the trub, which is very similar to flocculated particles that sink:

Auto-Siphon

That can be used in pots, PET bottles, carboys or anything else that has an opening large enough to fit it in.

The downside is that it's very prone to breakage where the siphon tube makes the bend. I try to keep two on hand.

The Auto-siphon makes it a snap to start a siphon without disturning the contents and to draw down to a specific place, but flexible rubber tubing can also be used with slightly less precision to siphon off the good water.

 

[REM]

The biggest thing I'm bringing away from this thread is the concept of flocculation.

It seems to be a great pre-treat substitute for a pre-filter.

I can only imagine how much filter material would be required to remove the silt from my pond water without any other assistance. Just a 5 gallon bottle is going to have lots of silt.

 

[Jeffrey]

I would also be concerned about chemical contamination of pond water. Bleach and clorine would do nothing if you have diesel, gasoline, or oil in the water. If you live near an old military base, the ground contaminats can include acetones, ketones, glycol, etc.

OP, can you dig a well?

 

[REM]

I would also be concerned about chemical contamination of pond water. Bleach and clorine would do nothing if you have diesel, gasoline, or oil in the water. If you live near an old military base, the ground contaminats can include acetones, ketones, glycol, etc.

OP, can you dig a well?

If you have water that messed up I'd think that distilling would be the best shot that you had at making it drinkable. But what if that were the only water that was reasonably available to you? I'm just guessing here, but it seems likely that any pollutants will be reduced during flocculation.

It seems to me that flocculation of any silty water is still a good first step. Otherwise all of that silt is going to be cooked onto your gear and water to clean with is probably hard to come by. Then you could try running it through some clean sand and charcoal to try to remove some of the pollutants at least. Then you'd have a fairly clear liquid to distill.

I have a well that's likely heavily polluted with animal waste over the years. If it comes to it I'd have to try and distill that water to have any chance of leaving the nitrites and nitrates behind.

I have a gas well on my place and fracking going on all around. I'm hesitant to put in a shallow well due to the costs and the likelihood that it will become polluted in the future. So far so good on community water, the creeks and my pond as far as pollutants go.

 

[MadPrepper]

I'm really jazzed about this alum stuff. I found it in town for $19/5 lb., ironically at the same place I bought my calcium hypochlorite.

I also found this video that has really cinched it for me:

Very refreshing to get some original info on the forum for a change.

 

[REM]

I'm boiling a couple of small prickly pear pads right now.

I have already put 1/2 TBL spoon of alum in a pan, heated and stirred it in. Thta's already been pitched. I'm not sure if that's enough alum for 4.5 gallons of silty water.

 

[REM]

The water source:

Carboys. Left and middle are pond water that I just brought up. On the right is a carboy with water in it.

I put 1/2 tablespoon of Alum in the middle carboy. It's starting to work without being shaken. I'm still boiling sliced prickly pear pads that will go into the left carboy.

The middle carboy with Alum has cleared as well as the water carboy to the right side.

I just now added prickly pear soup to the carboy on the left.

PPS = slicking pads and boiling them in water until a green soup forms. I'm going to see if just the soup will work, or if I'll have to put the prickly pear pieces in there too.

I lost the back light. I'll get more photos tomorrow.

 

[stephpd]

Strange. The middle one look like all the muck is at the top. Floc is supposed to settle to the bottom.

 

[REM]

It did float. I thought that it was supposed to settle to the bottom, too. Maybe it's the carboy?

No real settling in the left carboy with the prickly pear soup as of dusk yesterday.

 

[stephpd]

Only reason for it to float would be that whatever it is it's specific gravity is less then that of water. Mostly that means to me oil. It did look rather emulsified in the picture where it was just starting to floc. But I didn't notice any type of oil sheen on the pond.

Dirt, heavy metals and such definitely sinks when floc forms since it's heavier then water.

The carboy should have no effect on how the floc forms or settles. Or in this case floats. I've seen stuff float in the settling basins but not to this extent. Usually most of the stuff sinks and a thin layer sometimes forms on the top. A couple times it's gotten kinda thick but nothing like what I see there. Looks like everything floated and nothing sunk.

What ever it is it's got to have a specific gravity real close to that of water for it to stay suspended for so long.


Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[theamazingmarlow]

if you are going to boil it anyway, why not just distill it? it is not difficult to capture the steam and make a quick condenser.

survivor man used a pot, aluminum foil, drinking straw, and small plastic cup. simple, but effective.

 

[PSYOP Soldier]

Like many, i too have pond/s to pull h2o from and have multiple systems, the primary being the Monolithic Water Filter system...did a review of it using the pond 150' from my front door....worked great, cost effective too...no nasties... :

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=167100&highlight=monolithic+water

of course, i have other treatment options as well.....

 

[stephpd]

if you are going to boil it anyway, why not just distill it? it is not difficult to capture the steam and make a quick condenser.

survivor man used a pot, aluminum foil, drinking straw, and small plastic cup. simple, but effective.

If it's oil, or whatever it is since it's staying emulsified and not naturally separating, it'll be very difficult to separate by distilling.

Was that pond always like that or did this happen since they've been fracking around your place? Stuff like that in your water is scary to me. Might be found in any well you dig.

Or is this a runoff type pond and there's something uphill that's using something that's blended with water?


Besides using the alum which seems to work at separating the two you might want to invest in something like this to absorb this stuff but not the water.
http://www.newpig.com/pig/US/absorbents-503/pig-oil-absorbent-socks-booms-941

I'd hate to have that stuff muck up any ceramic membrane filter.

 

[theamazingmarlow]

If it's oil, or whatever it is since it's staying emulsified and not naturally separating, it'll be very difficult to separate by distilling.

Was that pond always like that or did this happen since they've been fracking around your place? Stuff like that in your water is scary to me. Might be found in any well you dig.

Or is this a runoff type pond and there's something uphill that's using something that's blended with water?


Besides using the alum which seems to work at separating the two you might want to invest in something like this to absorb this stuff but not the water.
http://www.newpig.com/pig/US/absorbents-503/pig-oil-absorbent-socks-booms-941

you can add table salt to get oil to to separate it from the liquid. you can use a 2 liter pop bottle as a separation flask and pull the sample from the bottom.

distill the salt out as well as the other solids.

 

[REM]

Only reason for it to float would be that whatever it is it's specific gravity is less then that of water. Mostly that means to me oil. It did look rather emulsified in the picture where it was just starting to floc. But I didn't notice any type of oil sheen on the pond.

Dirt, heavy metals and such definitely sinks when floc forms since it's heavier then water.

The carboy should have no effect on how the floc forms or settles. Or in this case floats. I've seen stuff float in the settling basins but not to this extent. Usually most of the stuff sinks and a thin layer sometimes forms on the top. A couple times it's gotten kinda thick but nothing like what I see there. Looks like everything floated and nothing sunk.

What ever it is it's got to have a specific gravity real close to that of water for it to stay suspended for so long.


Curiouser and curiouser.

There shouldn't be any oil in that pond. There was no sheen, or any other indicators.

I gave it a swirl this morning and everything did sink.

Two thumbs up on alum!! It's very clear. I can siphon it away into a clean pot, boil it and have a drink now.

No real effects from the prickly pear soup.

Alum does acidify the water from what I've read. 1/2 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water looks to be the dosage. If too much is added it acidifies the water past the point that alum will work.

 

[stephpd]

There shouldn't be any oil in that pond. There was no sheen, or any other indicators.

I gave it a swirl this morning and everything did sink.

Two thumbs up on alum!! It's very clear. I can siphon it away into a clean pot, boil it and have a drink now.

No real effects from the prickly pear soup.

Alum does acidify the water from what I've read. 1/2 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water looks to be the dosage. If too much is added it acidifies the water past the point that alum will work.

We use lime to adjust the PH after settling, and sometimes before if the coagulant dosage needs to be high, like during a rain event when the creek is very muddy. But baking soda works too.

Included in the pool test kit I recommend for checking the free chlorine residual is also a pH test. At work we strive to maintain the finished water at 7.2 -7.6. Same numbers for swimming pools though I strive for closer to 7.5. Lots of folks will complain that it's the chlorine burning their eyes when it's the PH being off that does it. 7.5 being the pH of most folks eyes.

For the ferric chloride we use, instead of alum, we try to keep the pH near 6.6 since that's where it flocs best. Go too high or low and the floc gets grainy and doesn't want to settle out as well.

 

[Jessedr]

At the ranch when we brand our holding pen's or by the stock tanks. some are steel above ground and some are dirt tanks. Hell we take a can and fill it with water boil it and strain it in to a nother can. Never had any problem's doing this and the water is just fine.. I still do this when I'm hunting.