"The least letter of the law"? Does that include not complying with the instructions of an officer while he's conducting an investigation when you are a suspect?........no.......there are several people whose hands are dirty in this matter.

Another source:

http://journalstar.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_6baa75d5-32b9-5a95-b317-046055f7819f.html

 

According to that article, everything went as it should have. The only thing that I have a gripe about (if this article is accurate, which it seems to be after watching the videos), is this part:

Police also cited Grana and Shaw on suspicion of misdemeanor child abuse. A 4-year-old girl was home at the time of the incident, Flood said, and the house was heated only by two space heaters. The only food inside, she said, was an uncooked bowl of rice, dried beans and leftover chicken bones. Police temporarily seized the mobile home as a crime scene, Peschong said. It since has been returned.

So the hell what if they don't have a lot of food in the house and "only two space heaters"... What if they go out to eat three times a day? Not that I agree with the idea, but that doesn't mean they're abusing their kid...

 

For target practice with a crossbow in his back yard...

I obviously didn't see exactly what happened before she brought out the camera (after a cop was already on the guy's neck lol).

I quickly skimmed (and searched) the Lincoln, NE laws and this is all I could find that would pertain to a crossbow in town.

It shall be unlawful for any person, except as provided in this chapter, to fire or discharge, within the corporate limits, or on any property of the City of Lincoln outside of the corporate limits, any air rifle, toy pistol, toy gun, slingshot, or any other air, gas, or spring operated gun, weapon, apparatus, or instrument for the purpose of throwing or projecting missiles of any kind by any means whatsoever in such a manner as to endanger the safety of persons or property, whether the instrument is called by any name set forth above or by any other name.

(Ord. 15625 §5; July 9, 1990: P.C. §9.28.040: Ord. 9382 §2; January 22, 1968: prior Ord. 3489 §9-103; July 6, 1936).

EDIT: I couldn't find what the punishment would be for disobeying a city ordinance, however. Running from the cop and/or resisting is a big no-no, though. No matter what happened before the cop felt the need to tackle him, he'll get booked for assault on a PO.

DOUBLE-EDIT: I just noticed the "endanger the safety" part (now bolded). Though the cops were more than eager to claim that shooting a target is illegal. Seems to me like he wouldn't have been in trouble if he wouldn't have ran from the cop.

TRIPLE-EDIT: She shouldn't have been giving them all the info (saying the bow was in the house).

But WTF do they mean, by "We cannot search your house without a search warrant, we can seize your house while we're trying to..." (couldn't understand the rest)?

 

But WTF do they mean, by "We cannot search your house without a search warrant, we can seize your house while we're trying to..." (couldn't understand the rest)?

This means that the police cannot search the hosue unless a search warrant has been issued by a judge. What they mean by seizing the house is that the police are able to secure the house in the time it takes to apply for a search warrant from the judge. In this time, they are not allowed to search it, but are there only to ensure that it remains secure and evidence is not destroyed or removed (In this case, the bow and arrow she said her husband put in the house before the police arrived).

I hope that clarifies the question for you.

 

They just randomly seized the couples home after asking "Does he rifle hunt too!?!?!"

What ever happened to illegal search AND seizure?

 

? not catching the first part of what happed but one cops face is bloody

-resisting an officer in many areas constitutes assault

-with probable cause in this case violating a city ordnance cops where well within the law asking him to identify himself

 

Lincoln sucks. Period. The last time I visited I was given a ticket for going 2 miles an hour over the speed limit. Probably because of the out of state plates, but it still sucks. I have many city, county , and state police friends, and have never heard of something this stupid. He wasn't harming anyone, let it go.

 

I live in Omaha and Lincoln cops are no fun.

That said, the guy shouldn't have tried going into the house- he could be getting a weapon, the cops do what they have to do.

I was down in Arizona, shooting with my dad and the rules down there are that you have to be 1000 ft. away from any houses (I could be wrong on the distance). We got the cops called on us- someone said we were too close. Long story short, we cooperated, we were reasonable and they just told us to move a little further away if we wanted to keep shooting. Keep in mind we had guns in our hands when the cops came up to us. We didn't run away and I think if this guy hadn't tried to go back in the house, he would have been fine.

 

sounds like the guy just wanted to be a jerk and as a result he got jerked.
I would be very leary of any one with a cross bow as they are lethal, accurate adn long range also.
One wonders if there was a history with the fella and the police before this incident.........I agree with Old warrior, time will tell and facts are troubling things

 

No ones rights were violated.

 

Ok, first off I am not fond of Cops, most of them anyway having said that the guy was breaking the law. It looked like he was shooting at a target shaped like a human torso, not wrong but a little weird. Like others said its not wise to argue with the cops, believe it or not they're not usually on your side. A lot of Cops these days are more scared then we are because they know they're disliked by most but they all have guns and if they shoot a guy wielding a bow they'll be let off. The woman was a bit irrational and was only making the situation worse by not listening to them. It's the way things are now you are to be suspected before you are trusted. The amount of Cops were overkill by about a factor of ten, but I'm sure they were bored so... Long story short, comply, cooperate then if they're in the wrong get em in court and make some cash and get em fired while you're at it. Bad Cops need to be eliminated, why? because they're our employees.

 

There are too many unkowns here to say who was in the wrong. We do know that he was firing a crossbow his wife even said that which is discharging a firearm inside the city limits. We also know that a cop ended up bloody that is going to bring other officers out of the woodwork.

He might of just ended up with a ticket if he would of cooperated with the officers and had his day in court. They didnt know who he was, he wouldnt tell them rember his wife said he didnt have to....lol.

Just guessing here but the way he dealt with the police was probably confrontational and full of attitude which doesnt work well when dealing with cops. You want to be an azz to them they will be a bigger azz to you and you end up losing.

 

I don't know any situation any one in all my life has ever acted in disrespect to athourity and won .
It is evident that
1.the man was willing to defy the laws of the town .
2.He lied when confronted ,dishonest.
3.proceeded to ignore a standing order ,bringing the athourity deeper into the situation.
These high profile problem people need to be weeded out, not supported .
If I'm making my neighbors nervous with a weapon they have every reason to be concerned .
He is making those of us who are responsible weapon owners look worse in public opinion. We don't need that.

 

look at the area people. (i grew up in trailer parks and live in one now, thats not what im pointing out) do you mean to say that you would want someone shooting a weapon that close to YOUR house? use a little common sense when you shoot.someone shouldve asked him not to shoot a weapon that close to his neighbors and if he proceeded to anyway then call the cops. i wouldve. i have kids in my house. think about it. shooting a weapon in that situation to begin with showed a serious lack of good judgement on his part, and the reaction of him and his wife towards the police only showcased that same lack of good judgement. come on, people. you really think it shouldve been ok for him to be shooting any kind of potentially fatal weapon in that kind if proximity to the MANY other residences in the area.he brought it on himself.

 

I think everyone would have to agree that the video doesn't/can't show everything that happened.

Without all the facts how can anyone judge what happened?

Limited to what the videos (there are more than one) show, it looks like there are errors on everyone's part.

It "appeared" to me that by her shouting the lady/housewife was making an effort to upset the situation. And for how "upset" the lady sounded I was surprised how still she was able to hold the camera. Most anyone shouting would have enough adrenalin flowing that would cause some shaking.
Perhaps her anger was a bit of an act?

 

...And for how "upset" the lady sounded I was surprised how still she was able to hold the camera. Most anyone shouting would have enough adrenalin flowing that would cause some shaking.
Perhaps her anger was a bit of an act?

Not everyone starts to shake with adrenaline. Some people it calms them down and focuses them. Cops, firefighters, soilders, martial artists, professional target shooters, hunters etc..

Also could be an anti-shake technology in the camera. Most have that nowadays.

 

the video doesnt show everything, that is correct. but it does show that he was in an area where he shouldnt have been firing a weapon to begin with. if he hadnt done that then none of the rest would have happened in the first place. we wouldnt even be having this discussion.

 

Standing order? Like, instant obedience to orders? The police are not a military force no matter how bad they want to be, and the language should fit their position. Police cannot give orders or commands to civilians. I know, it's a matter of semantics here, but it's a big deal. Their job is to work with the public, not above them or against them. Let's face it, most of law enforcement deals with engaging the general public, not serious offenders. But, they sure seem to have difficulty differentiating between the two. Maybe it's just my town, but I don't think so after all of the complaints and stories that are out there.

I'm not trying to bash all of the cops out there. It's my opinion that law enforcement agencies have lost sight of the job description. I would love to hear one cop admit that they are first responders, not protectors (seeing as the Supreme Court has said so on several occasions). Put it in perspective, ya know?

 

Things sure have changes since the "cops are your friends" days.

I've got family who are LEOs ... I still am not fond of most LEOs. It does not take long for them to become jaded and cynical and eventually corrupted by what they do every day. In the end you're usually left with either a fat, donut eating depressed individual who is just hanging on ... or someone who is just short, psychologically, of Robert DeNiro's character in Taxi Driver.

But I can honestly deduce this much ... the Cops in that video made a bad situation worse. They did their jobs very poorly. They did something wrong for it to turn into what it was in that video. Doesn't matter who did what first - not in the least. It only matters what happened from the time that video started and until it ended and it made the whole town of Lincoln and every cop there look bad imho.

 

And your opinion carries much weight after your above description of the two kinds of cops......

 

Thanks - glad you understood the gist of it because, after-all, it is factual reality. You must be a very astute member of your trailer park - probably on the rules committee and everything, huh? You've probably witnessed, first hand, something very similar to the video above in your own trailer park, or perhaps from both sides of the dilemma - rent a cop, security guard? Whatever ... at least I offered an opinion - I'm not just a lurker, not just an observer. I see what's happening from all angles - not just one - or at least I always try.

The situation that this post is based on was repeated with a few twists this weekend when a Sheriff's Deputy (Clark County, Ohio) was called by a neighbor via 911 regarding a man in a trailer park was shooting a weapon (Shotgun). As she approached, she stopped near some evidence. The subject shot the deputy from inside his trailer, killing the female officer. Even though the Lincoln incident occurred much earlier, this is why no-one runs back into the house. With the man in the video deciding he didn't have to comply with the cops and the wife standing there cussing the cops out, plus the first cop obviously hurting his hand, the police where forced to charge the guy. An incident that would have been handled with a short chat and a warning or maybe a ticket, turned into a trip to meet the judge.

Now, that is a seriously pertinent added bit of perspective ... and much appreciated. Our LEOs do have to deal with all sorts of danger every single day. They go into things blind of what has happened before they got there and not knowing what is about to happen - whether drugs are involved, or alcohol, or some sort of domestic situation or, worse yet, all three combined.

There is so much distrust between LEOs and the average citizen these days - I'm not sure where it happened, or why, but it has happened here, as it long ago happened in other countries ..... think about it.

In China, Russia, Nazi Germany and so on and so forth .... what was the one sure sign that the divide between a government and the people had already occurred? What IS the one sure sign that the divide between a government and people HAS already occurred? ... beyond repair, to the point of potential meltdown.

Do we really trust all of our LEOs these days? And let's admit the acronym LEO covers a wide spectrum of the craft.

For every time you show me a justified shooting, or a justified warrant served, or a justified incident of the use of force .... I might very easily show you, given youtube or a simple google search, incidents of unjustified shootings, overkill, bogus warrants being issued, unlawful search and seizures AND serious cases of police brutality.

There are also many cases where, imho, not enough force was used, where the LEO failed to take enough action ... just saw one case of such the other day on this very forum - Deputy Kyle Dinkheller's traffic stop . . .

I've got an Uncle who is retired from the Memphis PD - talk about stories to tell. He was less than two months out of the academy when MLK was assassinated and the city was burned - and, as he often says, "It's been all downhill since ... it never got better."

Yeah, they become jaded, cynical, skeptical, suspicious ... even fatalistic. Families deteriorate, marriages rarely last, kids cry about being called "narcs" at school because Daddy is a Cop. Hell yes - it effects them. Two cousins, themselves both very close to retiring, are worse off than Uncle Clarence. One in D.C. and the other in St. Louis, they are more emotionally afflicted and corrupted with PTSD than any combat veteran I've ever known ... and subsequently subject to not being perfect, not by a long shot. So, sometimes they overreact ... all do. All eventually take it out on someone whether they want to admit to it or not.

It starts with the smallest small town policeman and goes all the way to the top ... right up to the head of the FBI, the CIA, the NSA and all the other M&M bureaus out there. They get it in for all the right reasons, but something happens along the way and only the very very very good, the very righteous, the very strongest survive it relatively untarnished.

So the new ones are coming in and being trained by the old ones ... and what happens naturally? You guessed it - eventually. Worse yet, from what I am told, far too many of the new ones are what we might refer to as "mall ninjas" in need of a badge for the power boost. We've all seen them.

Anyways, I'm not preaching here and I am certainly not wanting to diatribe on what most of us already know but few are willing to admit .... but somewhere along the way both sides lost focus. There are very rare efforts out there these days where LEOs and the public try to communicate. Usually one side or the other comes in with preconceived notions and swelling with hubris and nothing ever gets accomplished .... one side feels like they have all the power regardless, while the other side feels helpless to do anything about it except react as you see their side reacting above.

The question is, which side is which? ... and the sub-question is, what will it take to change it back to the way it was - or was it ever any other way in the first place?

I do know one thing for sure. There are some darn good Officers of the Law out there these days ... they really care. And there are some darn good citizens out there these days ... they really care. What needs to happen is we need to focus on those of us who fit that description far more, and focus on the ones who do not far less. Because? Because as my old saying goes .... what you think about you do, what you do you become.

Sometimes we think too much about the negative and in doing so, we become negative.

When was the last time we saw something positive about LEOs, positive about each other, positive about parts of our Government even ... posted around here?

There is a lot to think about.

 

The situation that this post is based on was repeated with a few twists this weekend when a Sheriff's Deputy (Clark County, Ohio) was called by a neighbor via 911 regarding a man in a trailer park was shooting a weapon (Shotgun). As she approached, she stopped near some evidence. The subject shot the deputy from inside his trailer, killing the female officer. Even though the Lincoln incident occurred much earlier, this is why no-one runs back into the house. With the man in the video deciding he didn't have to comply with the cops and the wife standing there cussing the cops out, plus the first cop obviously hurting his hand, the police where forced to charge the guy. An incident that would have been handled with a short chat and a warning or maybe a ticket, turned into a trip to meet the judge.

 

Gallo Pazzesco, Please don't take my alluding to the Ohio deputy murder as an excuse for cops who are jerks. I have a brother who was a cop and my best friend was one for 20 years. They are both very good men who have done a lot for their communities, but either can turn into an @ss when their buttons are pushed.

My argument is that if you deal with the authorities in an adult/professional/respectful way you are much less likely to be thrown to the ground and cuffed. Since cops deal with drug addicts, drunks, thieves, thugs, liars and the mentally ill all the time, it would pay to set yourself away from them by acting in a mature manor. If you are out on your porch doing something you are not supposed to, deal with it. Like I said before, the officer will investigate and (even if he's a jerk) give you a warning or a citation for the infraction of city code. City code seldom end with someone in jail like a state penal code will unless you decide that it doesn't apply to you and you are dealt with on more that one occasion.

As far as the bureaucrat-LE wings Federal agencies go, most people attracted to work in those agencies are power-hungry whack jobs.

 

i started to comment about 5 times on this but the whole situations just to stupid for me to talk about without getting ****ed. im pro cops on this one. guy broke the law and resisted i dont see any police state there.

 

The American 'prison industrial complex' at work.