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Fled is that music...
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm really proud of how far my husband and I have come in the past few years in the realm of self-sufficiency and survival. We have learned so much from the people of this board and are relatively confident in most of our preps (but of course we're always improving)
We are however, completely clueless when it comes to the financial/precious metals aspect of preparation. We have paid down most of our debt but have very little to speak of in savings.
I do have 11k in a 401k from an old job, and he wants me to cash it out and for us to finish off some of our prep goals (namely, install a handpump well) and use the rest to buy physical silver. He is adamant. I am skeptical. I don't understand any of this crap. My brain hurts from trying to sort through all the info I have been reading about this online. Even if I cash it out, I can't figure out where the hell I would buy it and in what form.
I know a lot of people would say don't touch it. I'm 29 years old and while I know I will take a tax hit, and I know silver is really high right now. At the same time I feel compelled to something.
Is this just silly at this point in time? I really need some serious and thorough advice. I'm not looking to make money, just preserve most of what I have and inflation/teotwaki-proof it. It's all just too overwhelming - which is why I have ignored it up until this point.
 

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Maximus
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12,320 Posts
So I'm really proud of how far my husband and I have come in the past few years in the realm of self-sufficiency and survival. We have learned so much from the people of this board and are relatively confident in most of our preps (but of course we're always improving)
We are however, completely clueless when it comes to the financial/precious metals aspect of preparation. We have paid down most of our debt but have very little to speak of in savings.
I do have 11k in a 401k from an old job, and he wants me to cash it out and for us to finish off some of our prep goals (namely, install a handpump well) and use the rest to buy physical silver. He is adamant. I am skeptical. I don't understand any of this crap. My brain hurts from trying to sort through all the info I have been reading about this online. Even if I cash it out, I can't figure out where the hell I would buy it and in what form.
I know a lot of people would say don't touch it. I'm 29 years old and while I know I will take a tax hit, and I know silver is really high right now. At the same time I feel compelled to something.
Is this just silly at this point in time? I really need some serious and thorough advice. I'm not looking to make money, just preserve most of what I have and inflation/teotwaki-proof it. It's all just too overwhelming - which is why I have ignored it up until this point.
Wow... that is a lot of "eggs in one basket". I would certainly do the well. But not the REST in silver. Start out small first. Get some silver. Maybe a few hundred dollars at a time.

As to what forms, get a variety. Some junk silver (pre-64 us coins silver dollars are popular.) some rounds (various independent coinage) and some small bars.

You are right though, silver is high right now (though some still consider a bargain) it is still high. Look at history and at 1979 where people went for a mad dash to get silver, and the bottom dropped out of it. People are still eating a loss today from their purchase. Show him this research. It may make him think about lowering his "need" to get so much silver. Especially since you say that you are not interested in making a profit but are you willing to take a loss?

Basically, strike a balance. Get the well, get some other things you have been wanting that might have been a little to costly, then get a little silver or gold. That is what I believe.
 

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Cashing out a 401k to buy silver means you'll be paying approximately 40% more for that silver than everyone else once you take into account the penalty and taxes. Start buying your silver OUTSIDE your 401k a little at a time, over a long period of time. You're only 29, you'll have a long time to build up a sizable silver collection and you'll have an intact 401k.
 

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Food Storage Solutions
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1,029 Posts
As far as buying silver goes - I take "x" amount of dollars every week and buy that amount of silver with it. For instance, say hypothetically i purchase 4 silver dollars /week; I would do this no matter what the price and would cost average my silver.
One week I would purchase 4oz say at $35/oz
The next week I would purchase 4oz at $39/oz
The next week I would purchase 4oz at $36/oz
and the final week i would purchase 4oz at $43/oz

Cost averaging those would be:
4x$35 = $140
4x$29 = $116
4x$36 = $144
4x$43 = $172
You would the divide the sum of 140+116+144+172 = $572 by however many coins were purchased which would've been 16 giving me an average of $35.75/oz/coin
 

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Patiently Waiting
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I normally agree with a lot of what vic' says but I gave to disagree about silver being too high atm. Back when the Hunt bros did their thing it was a clear case of upward manipulation. Today we have downward manipulation because of the JPM. With gold sitting at over $1700 and silver at under $39, there is a huge disparity between the two if you look at the average historical ratio of about 16:1 (silver:gold).

At today's prices the ratio is around 45:1, which either makes gold WAY overpriced (not likely when you consider the trillions of dollars flooding the system), or silver is way undervalued.

According to those that keep records, there is less silver above ground than gold, and that silver is being used up faster than it's being replaced (mined). Some will argue with this but all the historical data I've seen says silver is in short supply.

They're going to print more money, that's a sure thing. That will only force up the price of everything. Choose whether or not you trust those in charge of the fiat ponzi scheme, or a world wide history that says PM's maintain value over time and across borders and changes in government.
 

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Fled is that music...
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know the smarter thing would be to buy it a little at a time, but I don't really have that kind of free-time, or the self discipline to set aside money every couple weeks and then go hunting down silver. (I've got two very young kids and a demanding full-time job, I barely make it to the grocery store on a weekly basis)
This whole idea is stemming from the worry of a relatively imminent SHTF situation, (inflation, etc) so that's the reason for our proposed 'rash' behavior...
One one hand it seems like a stupid, knee-jerk reaction - hallmark of the unprepared and one of those life decisions that I'll cringe at the memory of when I'm 55. On another hand it seems like in the grand scheme of things in our lives, 11K is a drop in the bucket . A year or so into a SHTF situation, 6k in silver is, well... pretty huge.

vicdotcom - I do agree about making sure all the rest of our preps are in PERFECT order before dumping the rest into PMs...
 

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I know the smarter thing would be to buy it a little at a time, but I don't really have that kind of free-time, or the self discipline to set aside money every couple weeks and then go hunting down silver. (I've got two very young kids and a demanding full-time job, I barely make it to the grocery store on a weekly basis)
This whole idea is stemming from the worry of a relatively imminent SHTF situation, (inflation, etc) so that's the reason for our proposed 'rash' behavior...
One one hand it seems like a stupid, knee-jerk reaction - hallmark of the unprepared and one of those life decisions that I'll cringe at the memory of when I'm 55. On another hand it seems like in the grand scheme of things in our lives, 11K is a drop in the bucket . A year or so into a SHTF situation, 6k in silver is, well... pretty huge.

vicdotcom - I do agree about making sure all the rest of our preps are in PERFECT order before dumping the rest into PMs...
Don't forget that you also have to pay dealer fees on buying or selling that silver, and there is no guarantee of massive inflation at this point. Currently, economic indicators are pointing to the possibility of deflation being just as likely, in which case silver and PM's will drop in price as well.

Please be careful on this.

I fear that in the next 6-12 months, we're going to see a lot of people holding PM's that are worth much less than they bought them for.
 

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I fear that in the next 6-12 months, we're going to see a lot of people holding PM's that are worth much less than they bought them for.
The attitude shift that I've seen on this forum lately is very interesting. Not long ago, nearly everyone was convinced that PMs were the way to go. Routinely we saw calls for people to liquidate retirement funds and buy PMs and preps. Now I see a large part of the contributors here convinced that PMs are in a bubble and somehow the economy is going to go back to normal. "Manipulation" is blamed for high prices of gold AND low prices of silver. PMs are being shunned because you can't eat them after SHTF.

Is it fear of what's happening now causing people to wish things were how they used to be? Before people speculated wildly about how things might be, and predictions about when the meltdown would happen were common place. Now that events are ACTUALLY happening, people seem to be backpedaling on their previous claims and speculation. I know this is the trendy word to use, but is this perhaps some normalcy bias kicking in?
 

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The attitude shift that I've seen on this forum lately is very interesting. Not long ago, nearly everyone was convinced that PMs were the way to go. Routinely we saw calls for people to liquidate retirement funds and buy PMs and preps. Now I see a large part of the contributors here convinced that PMs are in a bubble and somehow the economy is going to go back to normal. "Manipulation" is blamed for high prices of gold AND low prices of silver. PMs are being shunned because you can't eat them after SHTF.

Is it fear of what's happening now causing people to wish things were how they used to be? Before people speculated wildly about how things might be, and predictions about when the meltdown would happen were common place. Now that events are ACTUALLY happening, people seem to be backpedaling on their previous claims and speculation. I know this is the trendy word to use, but is this perhaps some normalcy bias kicking in?
I have had a similar feeling as well. Just in the last couple of weeks maybe. I haven't been able to put a finger on it though like you did. You bring up a good point.

I think many folks are not happy with what they are seeing happening as disintegration has began throughout the world. Everything seems haywire with the downgrade (very deserved), the wild swings in the stock markets, the EU tanking, wild changes in the PMs and commodities markets.

Nobody knows just how everything will come down but I do believe our fears are ACTUALLY happening and I would expect to see an acceleration in the uncontrolled turmoil and extremes occurring in the world markets.

At this point any single incident could cause a complete breakdown in the rhythm or world trade and what economic stability we have left. It is time to get your final preps in the best order you can. My feeling about our current situation is not good, but I just hope I am wrong and we have more time.
 

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Patiently Waiting
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The attitude shift that I've seen on this forum lately is very interesting. Not long ago, nearly everyone was convinced that PMs were the way to go. Routinely we saw calls for people to liquidate retirement funds and buy PMs and preps. Now I see a large part of the contributors here convinced that PMs are in a bubble and somehow the economy is going to go back to normal. "Manipulation" is blamed for high prices of gold AND low prices of silver. PMs are being shunned because you can't eat them after SHTF.

Is it fear of what's happening now causing people to wish things were how they used to be? Before people speculated wildly about how things might be, and predictions about when the meltdown would happen were common place. Now that events are ACTUALLY happening, people seem to be backpedaling on their previous claims and speculation. I know this is the trendy word to use, but is this perhaps some normalcy bias kicking in?
I'm still convinced on PM's. There's nothing in my string of posts that shows otherwise. There is no way to fix the current economic problem long term other than a reset, and PM's will take wealth from now to then much, much better than fiat TP.

Honestly though, I think this is the beginning of the end and eventually no amount of PM's is going to take you to the next big reset (aka second coming). That's a whole other type of gold we all need to buy.
 

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Albeit that you (and husband) want silver because you are losing faith in the fiat system and probably because you understand the current economic fundamentals? It can be a tough dive, specially at these prices.

I took new employment a year ago, cashed in the 401k and transitioned the paper to pm's. I have yet to have any regrets as I don't have faith in the market. The MSM paints the DOW as the bell weather for the financial health of this country, in my opinion it is nothing more than a few black boxes trading on algorithims and consists of American compaies that offshores labor. Yes, there are day traders that make money and good for them. I hear IRA's are the way to go and so on; howerver they all have liabilities.

I would recommend purchasing silver in increments, a couple hundred dollar purchases and at time - cost averaging. I would also recommend purchasing 1 ounce rounds and junk.

None of us know what the future will bring, but I think most will agree that the dollar will fail. History proves that gold and silver are true meduims of exchange.
 

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Silent Defender
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If you look into silver coins, here are some numbers to keep in mind.
(in troy ounces)

Dollar = .999 or .77343, depending on the type of dollar coin
Up to 1964 Half = .36169
1965-1970 Half = .14789
Quarter = .18084
Dime = .07234
 

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I can't imagine telling someone what to do and then have them face the consequences afterward. You have to be willing to make that choice purely on your own.

That said. You're 29 years old. If you lose everything in this gamble, you're not really that bad off. I completely changed careers, started off with nothing when I was about that age and now I'm doing well. Age is on your side. If you have no children, then what is the worst that might happen if you lost it all?

If you're close to your older family members, ask them if they were ever broke at some point in their life and how old they were. 29 is young IMO and plenty of room to take chances in life.

On the upside, if you gamble this and you are right, then you're going to have a leg up on many other people your age.
 

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I personally have about $1000 in silver with no plans to add. I see the silver as a run on the banks safety net and nothing more. If I come back from a hunting trip and discover a run on the banks has occured I will go to a coin shop or a pawn shop for cash. Putting all of your eggs in the silver basket would be foolish.

As for the hand pump well ........ ABSOLUTELY DO THE HAND PUMP WELL :thumb:

DO NOT LIQUIDATE THE 401K you will lock in the losses of the last few weeks. If you need extra money to buy a small amount of silver and the hand pump well; one of you or both of you could get a part time job delivering pizza.
 

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As far as buying silver goes - I take "x" amount of dollars every week and buy that amount of silver with it. For instance, say hypothetically i purchase 4 silver dollars /week; I would do this no matter what the price and would cost average my silver.
One week I would purchase 4oz say at $35/oz
The next week I would purchase 4oz at $39/oz
The next week I would purchase 4oz at $36/oz
and the final week i would purchase 4oz at $43/oz

Cost averaging those would be:
4x$35 = $140
4x$29 = $116
4x$36 = $144
4x$43 = $172
You would the divide the sum of 140+116+144+172 = $572 by however many coins were purchased which would've been 16 giving me an average of $35.75/oz/coin
check your math ;)
 

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"shall not be infringed!"
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406 Posts
So I'm really proud of how far my husband and I have come in the past few years in the realm of self-sufficiency and survival. We have learned so much from the people of this board and are relatively confident in most of our preps (but of course we're always improving)
We are however, completely clueless when it comes to the financial/precious metals aspect of preparation. We have paid down most of our debt but have very little to speak of in savings.
I do have 11k in a 401k from an old job, and he wants me to cash it out and for us to finish off some of our prep goals (namely, install a handpump well) and use the rest to buy physical silver. He is adamant. I am skeptical. I don't understand any of this crap. My brain hurts from trying to sort through all the info I have been reading about this online. Even if I cash it out, I can't figure out where the hell I would buy it and in what form.
I know a lot of people would say don't touch it. I'm 29 years old and while I know I will take a tax hit, and I know silver is really high right now. At the same time I feel compelled to something.
Is this just silly at this point in time? I really need some serious and thorough advice. I'm not looking to make money, just preserve most of what I have and inflation/teotwaki-proof it. It's all just too overwhelming - which is why I have ignored it up until this point.
One question? Do you have any fixed interest debt right now? If you do, I suggest you have some "cash" means of making those payments for 6 or 12 months before getting into PM's. If things get dicey, you can still make your house/vehicle payments.
 

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East young man, go East!
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Cash in your 401K and get the well and silver. Do you honestly think your 401k is going to be there when you retire? Besides, even if you bought 10k in silver, its really not that much, maybe 250 ounces if your lucky. Disreguard this advice if you think your money is better invested in Ben and Jerrys ice cream stocks, or perhaps Bank of America. Personally Id rather invest in 12 year old Glenfiddich at this point in time.
http://www.glenfiddich.com/
 
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