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Discussion Starter #1
1) ..... A prophet has no honor in his own country. John 4:44

In other words, the locals will never believe the real deal when they see it, no matter how hard they try.

Thanks to mass media, now everyone is local. So when the plagues arrive, how will you recognize them? Won't your mind say to yourself ... "isn't that just the carpenter from Nazareth? Isn't that just a man?

In this brave new world where men can suddenly wield the power of the elements by a simple request, or by a command, will you deny that power?

Apparently so ...


In the last days perilous times will come, for men shall have a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. 2 Tim 3


Using a little algebra, what he's saying is that the peril to come will be directly proportional to the denial of the power at hand.

Conclusion ..... Don't deny what you are seeing when you see it.


2) What are the KEY false miracles performed by the False Prophet?

.... so that you don't get mixed up by the bad guys.
 

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I get your drift but its a little murky what you are trying to say...."Plagues" yet you speak more of veils over the eyes of Believers...?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I get your drift but its a little murky what you are trying to say...."Plagues" yet you speak more of veils over the eyes of Believers...?
These aren't evangelists. They're not bringing "good news" to anyone, unless you're encouraged by the destruction of their rivals.

Their job is to point out the bad guys and show you how weak they really are.
 

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These aren't evangelists. They're not bringing "good news" to anyone, unless you're encouraged by the destruction of their rivals.

Their job is to point out the bad guys and show you how weak they really are.
Im still a little unclear...its like I came in on the tail end of a conversation...chalk it up to 10 hrs of patrol duty with another 2 to go...who are "these" and "they're" you're speaking of?
Im not trying to be dense...Im trying to follow your thought process....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
When the court of Heaven convenes, two men will be called to testify on behalf of the Kingdom of God, on earth. Their job will be to point to the Beast and the False Prophet on earth, and say ... "I saw you lead men astray, and I saw the false miracles you performed."

Without these two men, there can be no conviction and there can be no judgement of the bad guys.

The witnesses are men, because the accused, deceived mankind.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Rumored to be Elijah and Enoch, correct?
What's important are the points they make before the Court, and their credentials as mortal men living at the time of the deception. This is highlighted by the fact that they are eventually killed by their rivals.

It could be any two men, but they will know the bad guys and they don't have to convince the world of anything. They only need to convince the Judge and jury.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Agree...these are the ones who witness non-stop for 3 years?
This is currently being debated among theologians. I would argue that in no courtroom do we see two men testifying at once. Each man takes his turn, but this is for the Judge to decide. Perhaps in the court of Heaven two men are allowed to testify simultaneously. Time is far less important than the content of their testimony.

Have we heard anyone on earth, point and say .... "I see you False Prophet, and I see what the Beast has done, followed by a miraculous plague?"

Those are the crucial criteria, not who and for how long. At some point, the world does take notice, but not until the very end, when they are murdered by the bad guys. That's when the world of their fellow men, exchange gifts to celebrate, which is likely some kind of clue. Generally, gifts are exchanged on the anniversary of a birth, not to commemorate a death.

So again ... for all the survivalists here:

2) What are the KEY false miracles performed by the False Prophet?

.... so that you don't get mixed up by the bad guys.
 

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I see your points now...thank you for clarifying...I wish whole heartily that the sins of Our Leaders are revealed for all to see but riddle me this....I rely on my faith to warn/protect me from false anything...give me eyes to see thru the veil to be thrown up by the evil ones and allow me to follow the True Path..... is this not the way to go and let these other events fall on those who don't have the faith to stand?...JW
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I see your points now...thank you for clarifying...I wish whole heartily that the sins of Our Leaders are revealed for all to see but riddle me this....I rely on my faith to warn/protect me from false anything...give me eyes to see thru the veil to be thrown up by the evil ones and allow me to follow the True Path..... is this not the way to go and let these other events fall on those who don't have the faith to stand?...JW
You'll know when the bad guys appear in the flesh, because the first thing they do is kill these two witnesses, who are accusing them and ripping their world apart. In essence, they flush them out of hiding.

Seeing the bad guys fingerprints BEFORE they reveal themselves, is the purpose of this thread.
 

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I'm not too sure that my list will fall into the category you're seeking but I would beware of the following teachings and/or events:

1) "Everyone will ultimately be saved" no matter what they do or how they live (lived) their lives on earth. This is the false doctrine of "ultimate reconciliation."

2) There is no hell. This teaching is directly contrary to the teachings of the Bible.

3) Universal Ecumenism is the teaching that all religions should join together for the good of all peoples. This teaching flies in the face of Christ's true doctrine of "being in the world but not of the world." Paul specifically states that we should not yoke ourselves together with unbelievers.

4) Pre-trib Rapture teaches that only Christians in the end-times will be spared any tribulation. It gives many Christians a false sense of security and lulls them into a sense that they need not worry or prepare for the coming Great Tribulation. It's not a biblical doctrine. Noah, Moses, David, Jesus, the Apostles, the early Church, and the modern Church have (and are) faced tribulation. 1 Thes 5:3, "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

5) As current and future events unfold we will see MAN attempting to play GOD. The number 666 is the mark of the beast and the mark of man. "The beast," then, will likely be a government of power-hungry, self-serving men (and women).

6) We'll see more and greater natural disasters coupled with rioting and bloodshed. We'll also see a major turn towards sexual debauchery for the Bible says that the return of Christ will be like it was in the says of Noah when sexual promiscuity was the norm.

Just a few thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm not too sure that my list will fall into the category you're seeking but I would beware of the following teachings and/or events:
I agree with much of what you said, however, I want the focus here to be on the false miracles of the bad guys, which are what lead to the plagues.

They are preaching repentance, but the focus of the witnesses will primarily be on finding Satan's gun, as well as our complicity in its construction.

The most disturbing part of this investigation is that the Book Revelation says we construct these false miracles. We build Satan's gun.

The plagues are the witnesses pointing to the gun.
 

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I agree with much of what you said, however, I want the focus here to be on the false miracles of the bad guys, which are what lead to the plagues.

They are preaching repentance, but the focus of the witnesses will primarily be on finding Satan's gun, as well as our complicity in its construction.

The most disturbing part of this investigation is that the Book Revelation says we construct these false miracles. We build Satan's gun.

The plagues are the witnesses pointing to the gun.
Too veiled for me to comment further other than to say that Satan is a master deceiver and the media is under Satan's wing. It's likely that we'll see lots of media "smoke & mirrors" which will deceive many into believing that something is happening that actually is NOT happening. Folks will react to their senses and chaos will likely ensue.
 
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I'm not too sure that my list will fall into the category you're seeking but I would beware of the following teachings and/or events:

1) "Everyone will ultimately be saved" no matter what they do or how they live (lived) their lives on earth. This is the false doctrine of "ultimate reconciliation."

2) There is no hell. This teaching is directly contrary to the teachings of the Bible.

3) Universal Ecumenism is the teaching that all religions should join together for the good of all peoples. This teaching flies in the face of Christ's true doctrine of "being in the world but not of the world." Paul specifically states that we should not yoke ourselves together with unbelievers.

4) Pre-trib Rapture teaches that only Christians in the end-times will be spared any tribulation. It gives many Christians a false sense of security and lulls them into a sense that they need not worry or prepare for the coming Great Tribulation. It's not a biblical doctrine. Noah, Moses, David, Jesus, the Apostles, the early Church, and the modern Church have (and are) faced tribulation. 1 Thes 5:3, "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

5) As current and future events unfold we will see MAN attempting to play GOD. The number 666 is the mark of the beast and the mark of man. "The beast," then, will likely be a government of power-hungry, self-serving men (and women).

6) We'll see more and greater natural disasters coupled with rioting and bloodshed. We'll also see a major turn towards sexual debauchery for the Bible says that the return of Christ will be like it was in the says of Noah when sexual promiscuity was the norm.

Just a few thoughts.
Good words!

You know, interestingly, as I was reading today I came across the following:

Revelation 3:10 Because you (Philadelphia) did obey my message about persevering, I will keep you from the time of trial coming upon the whole world to put the people living on earth to the test.

It appears, if anyone is NOT going to go through the Tribulation period, it is those above. Now whether or not that is because those people back then are already gone, or if it is something else, I do not know. I wouldn't call that pre-trib rapture because it only covers a small group of people, not the entire believing assembly of God. For the record, I am not a pre-trib believer.
 

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Re: You will know a tree by its fruit

False miracles will accompany false teachings. The line between the true and the false will become very thin, but it will still be there for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear what the Spirit says, (Matt 24:24)

We will know a tree by its fruit, (Matt 7:15-20). True prophets of God, (including the 2 witnesses, who will be 2 dark skinned women and not men, see Zech 4 & 5) will preach a message that lines up with the WHOLE Word of God and will not have any human wisdom from the devil mixed in, (James 3:13-18).

People who know God and His Word BY THE SPIRIT and not just the letter will not be deceived. It is that simple. For the masses though, they will be deceived, which will cause the great falling away, (II Thes 2:3) which will make way for the Antichrist to do his thing.

An example of a false miracle is calling down fire from heaven, (Rev. 13:13). True believers will use this to confirm the false prophet is indeed false, because the two witnesses of Rev. 11 will not do this. That is why you have to know God and His Word.
 

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drray..I don't agree with your interpretation of the Two Witness'...otherwise, You are dead on...only our faith will allow us to see past the deception
 

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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

I been saying that spit for years. And if you heard it, that meant your backside. I never gave much thought to what it meant. I just thought it was some cold-blooded spit to say to a mothertrucker before I popped a cap in his backside.

But I saw some spit this morning made me think twice. See, now I'm thinking, maybe it means you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. 9 millimeter here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous backside in the valley of darkness. Or it could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that spit ain't the truth. The truth is, you're the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men. But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.
 

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Good words!

You know, interestingly, as I was reading today I came across the following:

Revelation 3:10 Because you (Philadelphia) did obey my message about persevering, I will keep you from the time of trial coming upon the whole world to put the people living on earth to the test.

It appears, if anyone is NOT going to go through the Tribulation period, it is those above. Now whether or not that is because those people back then are already gone, or if it is something else, I do not know. I wouldn't call that pre-trib rapture because it only covers a small group of people, not the entire believing assembly of God. For the record, I am not a pre-trib believer.
I personally think that what is meant is that the true and faithful church will be protected from the ravages of the great tribulation while being a witness to it. Sort of like Noah and his family during the flood. While all hell was breaking loose around them they were safe and shielded from that tribulation.

The Church is the bride of Christ and is referred to as a "woman" on occasion. I wonder if the following verse is an indication that Christ's faithful will be protected from "the serpent":

Revelation 12:14, "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
 
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