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PreparationInBubbaNation
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Discussion Starter #1
A lot of people think they can handle themselves because they can punch a paper target.

I urge people to reconsider their security considerations in these troubled times. :cool:

If your training doesn't look like this don't expect much more than handcuffs and or a bag.




If that hurts your feelings, well consider that your opponents business is not to care for your feelings ;)
 

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Happy to be here!
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A lot of people think they can handle themselves because they can punch a paper target.

I urge people to reconsider their security considerations in these troubled times. :cool:

If your training doesn't look like this don't expect much more than handcuffs and or a bag.

[If that hurts your feelings, well consider that your opponents business is not to care for your feelings ;)
Handcuffs? Are you planning on shooting it out with the police if they come to arrest you for a law violation? For you, I would suggest some training on how to co-exist in peace and not wage war. I bet you and your family will live longer and happier lives that way. If you find you are still not happy, than move to a state or country that suits you. There is way too much bravado and death mongering going on here.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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So in other words op, unless I can cough up the thousand dollars Twice a year for training with magpul dynamics or tactical response twice a year, might as well sell my guns and join a monestary
 

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Ok, so you can punch paper at 300 yards with quarter sized groups, hats off to you. Can you do it under stress, in a dynamic situation, can you do it on the run. That is what the videos above represent. Shooting in a dynamic confrontation, which is exactly what a gun fight is. Learning to control your breathing, learning to shot on the move, learning to hit the target shooting week hand, learning to transition from primary weapons system to secondary. This type of training can do nothing but help you in your weapons system operation and increase your chances of survival in a dynamic confrontation. “Well, I cannot afford this type of training”, no problem, you can still train with some of the aspects, try exercising just before you get ready to shot, get the heart pumping, yes you might look a little funny at your local range knocking out 50 jumping jacks just before you shot a group. But before you know it, you’ll have quite a few people joining you in your routine once you explain your logic, trust me I have seen it happen. Another option, if you have the property, set up a 100 yard run-in-gun range. And if you can afford the training, by all means get it; you owe it to your family, yourself and your group. Now as for as doubting the abilities of Travis Haley and Chris Costa of MagPul, trust me, these are two “been there, done that” guys who have a lot of experience in some of the worst places on the planet.
 

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Never Give up
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Some of us are not on the offensive

Some of us just want to be left alone. As far as the training its like anything you cannot know how something will play out until it happens. What do you think Xerxes thought when some little country just said no more. Yes they were soldiers but alot of it was just plain being in the right place at the right time with the right training. Why do you think there is no one type of martial art that wins all the time. Its because everytime someone thinks that they have prepared for everything someone thinks of a simple way to take away the advantage. Its survival of the most adaptable. It will always win.
Take your movies there. So what happens when I just retire into the woods then after a couple of weeks come in and gas em while they sleep. That one guy had some nice boots I wanted and they looked like they fit.
Never fight the way your oponent want. If he likes close go far if he likes far get him while he sleeps. Never do what they expect.
 

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Much wisdom here, good post!
Some of us just want to be left alone. As far as the training its like anything you cannot know how something will play out until it happens. What do you think Xerxes thought when some little country just said no more. Yes they were soldiers but alot of it was just plain being in the right place at the right time with the right training. Why do you think there is no one type of martial art that wins all the time. Its because everytime someone thinks that they have prepared for everything someone thinks of a simple way to take away the advantage. Its survival of the most adaptable. It will always win.
Take your movies there. So what happens when I just retire into the woods then after a couple of weeks come in and gas em while they sleep. That one guy had some nice boots I wanted and they looked like they fit.
Never fight the way your oponent want. If he likes close go far if he likes far get him while he sleeps. Never do what they expect.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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I think any one of us here that have done dynamic training AND been in an actual gunfight can say that the training is nice- but its no where near the same thing.
 

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American fearmaker
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There is no way that any training will actually come close to simulating true combat. The reason is that when you get into a combat situation, it's never exactly the way you've trained. What training does is teach you fine motor skills that you can sometimes put to use when you are in it up to your eyeballs. In other words: Training is theory but combat is the real deal.

Where it begins to develop well is when you learn to use your theories with a large amount of experience. If Dwind is holding a gun on Johnny Dirtbag, I do NOT want to have Johnny online between me and Dwind. I want to approach the situation off angle to the line that Dwind is aiming along. So if Dwind is in the north, Johnny is directly in the middle between us I do NOT want to be directly south of Johnny. I will approach from the southeast or southwest depending on my options.

The old saying of, "You will react the way that you train." is only partly true. Because of so many variables, you will kind of react the way that you trained to do. Instinct, common sense and tons of experience will sharpen your survival chances. So training does have its merits but expereince, coupled with training, is what makes your world safer.
 

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In Bat Country
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I agree with will.... my major beef is the implications that somehow training will effect our decision making in regard to WHEN we engage. That without run and shoot training, we will somehow use lethal force illegally. It just takes a basic understanding you your states penal code and after an incident not talking to the police about any particular detail without a lawyer to avoid any Legal entanglements. Say to them that you acted legally within the Texas Penal code in regards to defense of self/others/property

Also knowing the rule of force, what situations qualify as “self-defense”… meaning if a man is assaulting a woman, the legal assumption is that her life is in danger, she or a third person can use lethal force on that assailant. Or if it is a single person being attacked by multiple assailants etc.

It takes book work, not running around rodeo barrels to deal with the legal side of things.
 

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You ARE what you IS!
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There is no way that any training will actually come close to simulating true combat. The reason is that when you get into a combat situation, it's never exactly the way you've trained. What training does is teach you fine motor skills that you can sometimes put to use when you are in it up to your eyeballs. In other words: Training is theory but combat is the real deal.

Where it begins to develop well is when you learn to use your theories with a large amount of experience. If Dwind is holding a gun on Johnny Dirtbag, I do NOT want to have Johnny online between me and Dwind. I want to approach the situation off angle to the line that Dwind is aiming along. So if Dwind is in the north, Johnny is directly in the middle between us I do NOT want to be directly south of Johnny. I will approach from the southeast or southwest depending on my options.

The old saying of, "You will react the way that you train." is only partly true. Because of so many variables, you will kind of react the way that you trained to do. Instinct, common sense and tons of experience will sharpen your survival chances. So training does have its merits but expereince, coupled with training, is what makes your world safer.
That is about as logical as it can get. So many variables? That is an understatement! Too many variables to know exactly how one would react to a situation, but this is a great thread to start discussing them and doing a little good 'ole fashion brainstorming.

"No one is thinking if everyones is thinking alike." General George S. Patton
 

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Live in peace, fight only when necessary, and when you fight don't fight fair. I have played paintball and airsoft since I was 10 years old, BFD. I can hold my own because I shoot and scoot, and have drilled on how I react for years.

I was also a private security specialist for several years in west baltimore. I have been shot at, I have been hit, and I have shot back as well. Only some of the training that I received prepared me for what I went through. Nothing about what happened to me was tacticool. What it did leave me with was PTSD, bullets in my armor, and rounds expended, and a crap load of grief from the legal system.

You can go through all the wonderfully expensive training in the world, but it is down to the individual and the seriously split millisecond choices you make. I can, will, and have pulled a trigger. My preferance is to never have to do it ever again, but if driven to it, I will. I wish to live in peace, but prepare for a fight.

I suggest that if you want to see how you will react under stress that you do it in airsoft or paintball with milsim (military simulation) players. I have learned a lot in all those years. And in truth the ability to find cover once engaged, return precise fire, and keep moving probably saved my butt. Yes, a game, saved my butt. However, it is up to you to realize once in this make believe environment what will get you dead, and what might actually keep you alive.

You may react the way you are trained, but do not believe that the other guy doesn't know what you are going to do. Oh one more thing, stop watching movies, they are pure BS. And also stop watching youtube, I am a videographer so I only believe 1/100th of any video I see.
 

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Not To Reason Why...
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I've been shot at a couple times...never in a firefight, and I have military training and have been to a civilian shooting school here in New Mexico. All I have to say is, it only takes one shot. Both times a shot went off, I dropped, then actually hoped they would fire again so I could figure out where the hell it came from!....They never did, so I cautiously went along, But, like someone else said there is so many variables you can't think of everything.
 

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Yeah I cant even afford to live - let alone pay for any kind of firearms training courses.

The way I look at it - How many people will I be up against that have taken a tactical rifle corse? My guess is not many. What I can do is just be confident that I can do my best with what I have. I go shooting 1-3 times a month.
 

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02/14/11
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I understand what the OP is saying. But you're spot on Will. For My 40th birthday(14yrs ago this month) my children paid for a day at the paintball park for me. I was ill prepared. I rented a pump paintball gun.(Don't get me wrong guys I am NOT trying to liken this to real war scenario.) The first "game" we played was "capture the flag". I stayed with the team that guarded the flag. I remember being spooked thinking that there were people on the way to shoot at me in order to achieve their objective. Then I wondered how much more spooked all my big brothers were over in Nam when they knew Victor Charlie was on the way. Yeah, we need to be ready to fight. That's part of what this forum is about. But we need to work at all the other avenues that lead to peaceful resolution of conflict even more zealously.
 

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I would say that the closest thing to real fighting would be using airsoft guns. At least then you get to practice real strategies and tactics. If one team uses real military tactics then they will have an advantage over the other team, so in that way it is sort of like real combat. Also, airsoft guns are usually 1-1 in size and weight ratio. If you have a flashlight or scope that mounts to an AR15 then it will mount to an Airsoft AR15. They also can shoot pretty far and pretty fast. They will hit a target nearly instantaneous in urban proximities.
 

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I firmly believe in practice with your firearms, just owning them doesn't provide much of an advantage for doing anything. Practice on paper, on apples, creamers, anything safe and not environmentally destructive. Dynamic combat training? Some familiarization wouldn't hurt. But if any persons idea of long term survival is a series of ongoing running gun fights I think you will be living a very exciting and SHORT life after everyhing goes in the tank.
 
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