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6K views 24 replies 21 participants last post by  wootie 
#1 ·
Was reading a thread further down in this forum about being off the grid, and the issue of OPSEC was being brought up, which reminded me of this recent event with my wife and I... and thought maybe some can learn from it (nothing bad happened, but you will see the vulnerability further into the story).

OPSEC is subjective, meaning just like with security clearances, there is information that is NOFORN, confidential, secret, top secret etc... and you can be a hard target, by controlling who knows what.

That said, my wife and I had a talk after a conversation she had while getting new tires on the car at China-mart...

We were sitting in the waiting room, and the counter clerk was busy for awhile, and I was reading a coin-collectors magazine.

Once it slowed down, the counter clerk (a young african-american, good natured and working hard) started talking with my wife about how much he had been working that week. He said he had been pulling 10-12 hour shifts, and that day was his 8th or 9th straight day of those hours.

My wife, being polite and bored, begins telling him about my work schedule, 12 hour shifts, 4-6 days/week, 2 weeks of days, 2 weeks of nights.... and the conversation goes on... eventually it comes out, that the reason he is working so many hours, is because he and his wife, both young, around 21 or 22 years old, just had their first kid (a daughter) and he needs all the money he can come up with, and he is glad walmart is letting him get the overtime.

My wife then talks about our daughter, now almost grown, and the joys of child raising, and the challenges, like recently, our daughter beginning to date. The guy says he has a gun, and will make sure when his daughter is dating, that any suitor that comes along, will see him cleaning it, and he'll probably take him shooting, just to emphasize the functionality of the firearm and his ability to use it.

So I thought, this guy doesn't even know us, and is volunteering he has a gun in his home, not the smartest, if say, we were anti-gun and notified childrens services, or his employer... or if we decided we needed a gun, we could follow him home and wait until he wasn't there. It was just him assuming we were good people, like-minded, etc...

THEN... my wife goes on talking about how we have guns too, and how I caught our daughters boyfriend sneaking out of the house at 2am in the middle of the night, when we heard a noise, and he almost found himself at the business end of my shotgun... (different story, for another time).

THEN she says that we have several guns, and that maybe her boyfriend bought his gun recently, so he didn't feel so outgunned by his girlfriends dad... jokingly of course.

Which then got me to thinking... now this man knows I have MULTIPLE firearms, he knows what my wife and I look like, and that we have two teenagers left at home... he knows what our car looks like (it's sitting up on the hydraulic lift for new tires) and he has our billing information in his computer, and knows where we live. All from what my wife felt was innocent and polite conversation.

SOOO yes, my wife and I had to talk for a bit. I started off thinking this guy was the one violating opsec, and in the end, we were the ones far more vulnerable, just from friendly conversation.
 
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#2 ·
Too bad she responded to his 'classic joke' - which is just what it sounded like to me - in other words, I doubt he has a gun at all. :( And he has your invoice too - with all your info. But, probably he will think nothing more of it - and assume your wife was just 'joking' too - and in a day or two, if not sooner, it will be all forgotten.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Assume-Burgalary Alarm- OPSEC



About 3:00am 7-June-2011,Today
I responded to a residential burgalary alarm.Was advised by alarm company that it was a interior garge door alarm. When I arrived on scene the home owner was at the front door,waiting. They have a basement style garage and the door(interior) that the alarm was activated on was the one going up to the living area. I was told by the owner that if the 2 car doors wasn't open then it was the side walk-in door ( No Alarm on door),I went to check, you guessed it ,the door was open. I started a search of the basement/garage,when I got to the door that had been activated,I opened it,And started up the steps, I saw someone at the top of the steps with a GUN.It was the homeowners WIFE. I don't think either one of them know how lucky "she" is. There was a box out on the curb, Big,New, Flat Screen T.V. It wasn't stolen, The alarm scared them off.And the "Wife" wasn't shot. I wish the man would have told me his wife was in the house and was armed.Little things have big repercussions.
He could have gotten his new T.V stolen and his Wife Killed all in one night. All because a burgaler saw the T.V. box out on the curb.

No White Flag Above My Door.
Daveeds
PS:
The wife was carring a real nice(I'm Jealous) SS .357mag.Colt with Walnut handles. Also Impressed
She was in a perfect stance for shooting. A domestic violence call to their home could be Damn interesting. especially if she has bad PMS>
 
#3 ·
It's called Social Engigineering and a very big opsec violation on your part mate, not going to sugar coat it...read these threads about Kevin Mitnick, who started it all for computer related crimes, but can be applied to "normal," criminals...

http://www.google.com/search?q=mitnick&rlz=1I7GPEA_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

I sincerely hope and pray that nothing unsavory comes from this, but a good lesson for all of us....stay safe...
 
#4 ·
I think youre putting too much thought into it.

The chances of a working guy following you home to do any harm is quite remote. Just reading this I get the idea this wasnt your normal gangsta thug out to find his next victim.

Around my area you stick out more if you dont own at least one gun. Its accepted that you have a house full of guns, and most of us have them in display somewhere in the house. Most of mine are displayed in the middle of my living room in a gun cabinet my Dad built.
BUT, just because those are the ones you see doesnt mean those are all there is in the house.

Theres nothing illegal about owning guns and having children, my kids (3 and 14) regularly shoot with me. Call DCF, I will let them shoot with me too.

OPSEC seems to me overrated around here. Granted, I wouldnt be going around advertising the fact that I have X many months of food stockpiled, or X number of guns and ammo. Mostly it isnt anybody elses business whats in my house, but Im not worried about giving out 'Top Secret' info either.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
#5 · (Edited)
As I was reading the OP, I thought to myself 'yep, social engineering in action'.

I had an employer that used to give classes on this, because of the kinds of materials and information that could be accessible. I had to take the class every year as a work requirement.

I find the whole topic very fascinating. It does make you rethink one's conversations. Sometimes in my head, I practice saying, "Why would he / she / they need to know this?"

That helps me from letting too much information tumble out too fast. I think especially women are socialized to be helpful and efficient with information, so it becomes a habit.

P.S. - there is a book that I find very helpful to read and periodically re-read, called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker. It is not a book about phobias or being afraid. Instead it is about recognizing those danger signals early enough to protect yourself. I especially like the excerpts on 'forced teaming'.
 
#9 ·
I guess Im just spoiled by not living in a community that has to worry about this sort of thing.

Sure, we have the occasional break-in, yeah theres the occasional store robbery, but for the most part people steer clear of houses. Pawn shops and stores are different story, but homeowners have guns and most of our criminal element know this and are out for the quick hit and run and dont bother driving up and down the road casing the houses. Most of its done by people that the victims know, or done in the middle of the day when people are at work. Even that is rare since so many people around here only have one working person in the house.

I guess I should be happy with my little slice of heaven.
 
#10 ·
I work on cars for a living and I see all sorts of things on a daily basis from guns to porn in customers cars. Nearly every vehicle has registration and most a garage door opener. In all the years I have been in shops I have never heard of someone from a shop taking that info for home invasions. On the other hand I have seen several auto breakins where the crooks stole the address and opener and robbed the houses. In all cases it was when the cars were left outside of the shop for the night.
 
#18 ·
After being married for 17 years my husband has finally taught me to be careful of what I say and to who. He shreds everything and burns our boxes in the wood stove, or cuts them up into little squares, coats the with petroleum jelly and seal them in ziplocs. The only habit he hasn't broken me of is leaving the keys in the ignition of the car while in our driveway.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Where I live you have to be really careful who you talk to about what. Gangs are bad in the town 30 miles west of us and it's spilling over to our town now. My mother who is 70 now took a class given by the police in our town just for fun and giggles because she was bored. Plus, i'm so proud of her, she took a CCW course and passed.
Anyway, she went for one of those rides where they get to go on patrols with the officer. She would tell me all sorts of things going on. The 2 times she rode with them there were 6 drug and 3 burglary calls all within at least 5 to 6 blocks from us.
Needless to say, I am definetly more alert to outside noises at night now. She sleeps with her front and back porch light on now every night.
We have a super China mart that is just 5 miles from the house and there was a kidnapping in broad daylight and a shooting where 2 gang members opened fire on other gang members.
I can't afford to put a fence around this place. At least once a month if not more expecially during the summer we have people cut through my driveway to the alley behind and vice versa. I've been sitting on my front porch steps when someone has come between the houses and walk right past me not even bothering to say hello.
No trespassing signs are a joke, they act like there not even there.
I'm surprised my truck or house hasn't been broken into yet but I expect it's only a matter of time.
 
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#21 ·
So I thought, this guy doesn't even know us, and is volunteering he has a gun in his home, not the smartest, if say, we were anti-gun and notified childrens services, or his employer... or if we decided we needed a gun, we could follow him home and wait until he wasn't there. It was just him assuming we were good people, like-minded, etc...
...So what?

Lets say that roughly 3 out of 4 homes in America have firearms. You could walk down the street, break into a house hoping to get some firepower, and have a 75% chance in succeeding (probably more depending on state, area, etc). Would it really be worth someones time to follow someone home to steal their weapons, especially after they've seen your face? Probably not...

And what if you were anti gun, and reported him? For what? Parents can't own firearms? I'm not allowed to own a gun if I have a job?

I think you're just over reacting a bit :cool:
 
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