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OPSEC For Complete Idiots

14K views 88 replies 43 participants last post by  Metz 
#1 ·
This thread is the "antithesis" of this thread...

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=205251

If you do anything that the OP of the above thread is doing--you are doomed.

And because of all the hub-bub on this "other thread" --I am forced to make you all face the realities of OPSEC in terms of survival.

Here--read this and rub the crumbs out of your eyes.

It comes off of Rawles Survivalblogl.com --and BTW is one of the best pieces of material written on the subject.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/09/the_five_steps_of_opsec_assess.html

If you can only do half of what this guy is doing, then you are doing good!

Comments, rants, complaints, curses, etc. are all welcome.

ST
 
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#3 ·
Thanks a bunch.

Either you or I can start the flaming now. lol!

But seriously--this article is a must, must read.
It will give you lots to think about.

This guy goes to extremes on his OPSEC.
But in reality it would be hard on most people here.

Like I said, if you can only do half of what this guy does in this article, your are doing real, real good.

ST
 
#5 ·
Well, Mr Rawls might be talking like a paranoid ex spook or a person in witness protection or running from hitmen or govt, etc, but the reality is, there's no such thing as OPSEC to us mere mortals, especially PSHTF......we're not talking about folks going thru your trash, we're talking about electricity is off, water is off, roads are closed, supply stores are gone, looted. 2 weeks and you still have lights on, do they make silent generators? Can no one hear them? Where do you cook ? Inside? where do you boil water? Inside? Not me, I hav to do that outside. Where are you getting water? Food? How do you move around without being seen? How do you keep OPSEC, PSHTF? Folks will be watching and looking an smelling and hearing. No man is an island, you have to be in a group.
 
#6 ·
Well, Mr Rawls might be talking like a paranoid ex spook or a person in witness protection or running from hitmen or govt, etc, but the reality is, there's no such thing as OPSEC to us mere mortals, especially PSHTF......we're not talking about folks going thru your trash, we're talking about electricity is off, water is off, roads are closed, supply stores are gone, looted. 2 weeks and you still have lights on, do they make silent generators? Can no one hear them?
(blink blink) Why... would you have lights on? You are planning on running your generator at night when sounds carry? Instead of during the day in a soundproofed enclosure only long enough to recharge batteries and run freezers to keep them cold, with you making noise outside to cover the generator sound? Or you aren't planning on blacking out your windows so people would be able to see anything stronger than the glow of a candle, oil lamp, or solar yard light?

Where do you cook ? Inside? where do you boil water? Inside? Not me, I hav to do that outside.
Propane heater. Garage where no one can see.

Eventually, wood stove over low, smokeless flame.

Where are you getting water? Food? How do you move around without being seen? How do you keep OPSEC, PSHTF? Folks will be watching and looking an smelling and hearing. No man is an island, you have to be in a group.
Water - where everyone else is.

Food - Not, that's why everyone is losing weight (or wearing baggier clothes so it looks like we are) on strict rations.

Moving around - on foot, on bike, pushing wheelbarrows to haul heavy loads, in vehicles for short trips to move loads (like lots of water) too heavy for wheelbarrows...

OPSEC is not just not talking. It's also thinking.
 
#9 ·
How can you know that those how are working together with others will be doomed? I guess that it would be true in Rawles fictional stories, but can you provide some real life examples?

The wisdom of OPSEC is based upon the assumptions that the future will unravel like in fictional books; two examples are “Patriots” and “One Second After”. Is this possible? Yes it is. But it’s far from the only possible outcome. We really could use some alternative concepts challenging the TEOTWAWKI / SHTF type of thinking.

And as a side note; why not argue why you think this is unwise instead of branding the OP of the other thread an idiot? It just doesn’t bring anything to the debate other than a personal insult.
 
#14 ·
You are correct. The OP of the other thread is talking to anyone and everyone that will listen to him. The danger lies in informing a large group of unknown people of the preps and plans for a survival group. If I was a raider, I would love to sit in on anotherr groups planning session. I might even suggest some helpful hints of my own to ensure an easy operation on my part. There is strenght in numbers, but the numbers need to be screened and trustworthy.
 
#10 ·
So a really good way to maintain OPSEC would be say to normalise your prepping. If you went out into the comunity and taught prepping skills getting them and the local police on board. Then suddenly you have a reason to be doing the things you do. Unlike say the Branch Davidians who gave people a secret to look at.

You give them nothing to be impressed about.

Hiding things does not make you look normal.
 
#11 ·
To many people put to much information even up on here. And being the its not hard to track an IP address, all of your capabilities and locations are already known. Even misleading information can be used against you.

People, watch what you post. Weapons, gear, locations, pictures, training, details about your group, the selection process, food stores, all of it can be used against you to assess how hard or soft of a target you can really be.

Stay safe. Great thread by the way.
 
#12 ·
I've been reading both threads. Most of us started prepping because of an event or someone talked to us. The society of today is not like the pioneers. Saving is not encouraged. Self reliance isn't encouraged. It's easy to go to the store. Something, a tornado, hurricane, ice storm, book, or someone has to put an idea into people's brains.

It seems to me the issue of these threads is the HOW to get people informed safely. The people reading here may not live near you. The people near you are the most likely to come ask for help and/or take things. The last power outage here lasted a week. There were 10 generators in the entire subdivsion. I know some people are at least thinking about buying one after that event. But if no one had run a generator, most would not even think about buying one. Thinking is the first step to buying.

We had a fire outside and cooked hobo packets. Did that break OPSEC. Yes, but hopefully the neighbors got the idea of "I could do that to have hot food." No one asked but I would have shared the fire for them to cook their packets. A neighbor did try hobo packets after watching us.

That's another problem. There are people who won't be the first to do something but will try if someone helps them the first time. I have several friends I have taught to can. OPSEC blown again. They were too afraid they would kill their families. Now that they've seen how to do it with someone they can. That's more people I don't have to teach during a bad event who could teach others. I use we hate High Fructose Corn Syrup for why I make jam but eventually some will figure out we're preppers.

In the end, if more people prep we're all safer. There's less panic. They won't have the need to come raiding. We have more opportunities to trade for the things we might have not been able to afford or remembered.
 
#13 ·
I don't use my real name online anywhere where survivalism or guns are discussed. I have an encrypted anonymous hushmail account used for them all, that isn't used for anything else.

Buying a gun through an FFL never scared me, because even if there were a database, a database of 400 million gun sales isn't all that useful when about 150 million people are in it.
 
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#18 ·
I would love to go back to the time before I first started shooting, camping, prepping etc and start over making sure my opsec was pure enough that nobody would ever be suspicious that I try to be prepared.

I would also like to make society the homogeneous and cooperative body that we wish it could be. You have to survive after the ball drops as well as enjoy life beforehand and after.

Rawles has a lot of good info to make use of or at least speculate on, but I can't see the sense in living with a twilight zone bunker mentality . We have a country and civilization to preserve/restore and it will take far more people to do that than just those of us on these forums. Individual discretion should be the rule for who knows what somebody has or does. We're all big boys and girls now and no man is an island (as already posted).
 
#19 ·
This thread is the "antithesis" of this thread...

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=205251
Hey, thanks for directing me to the other thread. I missed that one. Now THEY have the right idea. :thumb:

It's important to remember that OPSEC means operational security, and not operational secrecy. Sure, keeping things quiet is part of it, but it doesn't necessarily mean becoming the creepy hermit in a secret bunker.

Creating a "survival community" can dramatically increase your OPSEC. Here is just a short list of the benefits:

- Strength in numbers - A well armed and organized community will be better able to defend itself
- Wider skill base - The more people you have, the more skills at your disposal
- Many hands make light work - Any work that needs to be done will be a lot easier with more people
- Companionship - What good is surviving if you're alone
- Easier prepping - If you're prepping as a group, you don't have to worry about your neighbors seeing, and in fact as a group you can save money by purchasing supplies in bulk. You can also avoid redundancy by not having to buy specialty equipment
- Long term survival - As a community, you have a much better chance at long term survival by being able to grow your own food, make tools, repairs and so on.
- Immediate benefits - The great thing about plans like this is that you don't need to wait for the apocalypse to benefit right now. In our community for example, we are already sharing skills, growing our own food, and generally helping each other out with every day life. For exmple, when when we go away for a few days, we have a number of people who can stop by to check on our place, collect our mail, and look after our animals. Last year, one of our community (an older widower) broke his leg and several of the men in the area got together to finish cutting and stacking his firewood.

Now, as great as all of this is, I understand that we got VERY lucky moving to this particular area, and that this set-up might not work for everyone, but it's important to know that there are other options that total secrecy, and that some of those ways might actually be better.

There is no one right way to have OPSEC.
 
#20 ·
When its time to harvest, you'll wish you had a few more hands. When its time to bury someone, you'll wish you had a few more shovels. When its time to defend your 'stead, you'll wish you had a few more rifles. It can make the difference.
 
#21 ·
I believe in certain aspects of OPSEC. My neighbors do not have a clue to what I'm doing, nor would they care. If the Feds want to track me down through my IP address, kick down my door and confiscate my old rusty 22 rifle, a couple MREs and a jug of water, well, then there's not much I can do.

I am not really worried about that. What does worry me is post SHTF. I don't care how secretive you are. You are eventually going to be found out!!! Generators in sound proof rooms? Really?

The best idea I've seen on this thread is openly cook a meager meal on a fire outside and offer to share the fire. Try to blend in with others as much as possible. But one day you are going to be out there cooking that meal and others are going to wonder why you still have food left. And they will WANT it. You know the saying. Desperate people do desperate things.

But the absolute best way to survive post SHTF is in GROUPS!!! Groups of trustworthy and like minded people. Pooling your resources and sharing the duty!!!

I think what the OP of the other thread is very doable in the right places. Like smaller towns and communities.

Unless you live or have lived in a small town you haven't experienced how they work and pull together for one sick person, threatening wildfires, power outages, you name it!!!!
 
#22 ·
Rule one is to get away from the masses. I already did that.
Rule two is know your neighbors, Done
Rule three make allies, done
Rule four Identify closest threats. done
Rule five have a PLAN , Done

OPSEC , a military term thrown around here like its law. Most can not come close to living up to what many have preached on this subject. The best you can do is get out as far as you can and band together with like minded neighbors. KF
 
#24 ·
TAKEZO has a point, but....

You don't want other people knowing about your preps, That's OPSEC.

But you need a group to survive a long term SHTF.

The latter requires you to at least bend the rules of OPSEC in order to find that group.

You have to get into shades of grey.
 
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#25 ·
How can you know that those how are working together with others will be doomed? I guess that it would be true in Rawles fictional stories, but can you provide some real life examples?

Of course working within a group is preferable... but not if that group derives from public meetings where the first donkeys who raise their hands wind up with you.

Your group has to be carefully selected and qualified beforehand.

And that does not mean going door to door with just your neighbors.

ST
 
#26 ·
So a really good way to maintain OPSEC would be say to normalise your prepping. If you went out into the comunity and taught prepping skills getting them and the local police on board. Then suddenly you have a reason to be doing the things you do. Unlike say the Branch Davidians who gave people a secret to look at.

You give them nothing to be impressed about.

Hiding things does not make you look normal.


More pollyanish thinking here.

You have my blessing to go down burning and screaming with your family.

ST
 
#27 ·
You are correct. The OP of the other thread is talking to anyone and everyone that will listen to him. The danger lies in informing a large group of unknown people of the preps and plans for a survival group. If I was a raider, I would love to sit in on anotherr groups planning session. I might even suggest some helpful hints of my own to ensure an easy operation on my part. There is strenght in numbers, but the numbers need to be screened and trustworthy.

Ding! Ding! Fontline winner here!
 
#28 ·
Hey, thanks for directing me to the other thread. I missed that one. Now THEY have the right idea.

It's important to remember that OPSEC means operational security, and not operational secrecy. Sure, keeping things quiet is part of it, but it doesn't necessarily mean becoming the creepy hermit in a secret bunker.

Creating a "survival community" can dramatically increase your OPSEC. Here is just a short list of the benefits:

- Strength in numbers - A well armed and organized community will be better able to defend itself
- Wider skill base - The more people you have, the more skills at your disposal
- Many hands make light work - Any work that needs to be done will be a lot easier with more people
- Companionship - What good is surviving if you're alone
- Easier prepping - If you're prepping as a group, you don't have to worry about your neighbors seeing, and in fact as a group you can save money by purchasing supplies in bulk. You can also avoid redundancy by not having to buy specialty equipment
- Long term survival - As a community, you have a much better chance at long term survival by being able to grow your own food, make tools, repairs and so on.
- Immediate benefits - The great thing about plans like this is that you don't need to wait for the apocalypse to benefit right now. In our community for example, we are already sharing skills, growing our own food, and generally helping each other out with every day life. For exmple, when when we go away for a few days, we have a number of people who can stop by to check on our place, collect our mail, and look after our animals. Last year, one of our community (an older widower) broke his leg and several of the men in the area got together to finish cutting and stacking his firewood.

Now, as great as all of this is, I understand that we got VERY lucky moving to this particular area, and that this set-up might not work for everyone, but it's important to know that there are other options that total secrecy, and that some of those ways might actually be better.

There is no one right way to have OPSEC.


Another glassy eyed nincompoop.

Of course it is better in groups--but not like this dunce in the other thread.
He is going out and holding public meetings--all takers are welcome, without screening, vetting and qualifying.

They will be raided and burned to the ground by government thugs.

ST
 
#31 ·
Another glassy eyed nincompoop.

Of course it is better in groups--but not like this dunce in the other thread.
He is going out and holding public meetings--all takers are welcome, without screening, vetting and qualifying.

They will be raided and burned to the ground by government thugs.

ST
That's Doctor Glassy-Eyed Nincompoop to you.

Seriously, you have no idea what's going to happen, so stop pretending like you do. You're talking like some paranoid tinfoil hatter. "Look out! The government's commin' fer ya!"
 
#29 ·
True OPSEC would mean walking away from this forum and not looking back. Just talking about OPSEC blows OPSEC. There is no group that will survive indefinitely with enough stressful situations present. Over time groups will devolve into subgroups, then anarchy.
If people cant get alone now, their not going to do better SHTF, thats like having a baby to save a marrage.

Family groups might do a little better than social groups, but there organized by a bloodline, that can change with death or injury, or falling out over plans.

Church groups might do a little better because that have a pretty old system of beliefs that have stood the test of time and persucutions.

I dont really want to be in either of the two above groups though.
 
#35 ·
TFamily groups might do a little better than social groups, but there organized by a bloodline, that can change with death or injury, or falling out over plans.

Church groups might do a little better because that have a pretty old system of beliefs that have stood the test of time and persucutions.

I dont really want to be in either of the two above groups though.
Any close-knit group or community can work with the right attitude and structure. It's definitely better to avoid a hierarchical, power-based structure though. It doesn't mean that you don't have leaders in particular areas though. For example, you could have one person who is in charge of security, so if there is an external threat, that person would take the lead to organize the defenses. In a farming project, the most competent farmer would probably lead. Everything else can be done by simple consensus.
 
#30 ·
Why can't i view the other linked thread?? whiskey tango foxtrot

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