OPSEC and a special needs hired hand.

9485 Views 77 Replies 30 Participants Last post by Bullets~n~Beans, Nov 2, 2012

britzen

Discussion Starter · Oct 4, 2012 (Edited)

Bullets~n~Beans and I are about to head back up on our new land after a week back in population. We are starting from scratch in a heavily forested area and there is plenty of clearing, selective cutting of timber and prepping logs for structures to be built this spring, in addition to building up the old logging skid for year'round use, all the other fun stuff that goes with developing an offgrid dwelling.

We have a young man in his late 20's, who came with excellent working references from close friends, that we have helping us move packed items into storage and wrap up chores at our old home to accelerate the move. He's hard working, strong as an ox, and is very interested in learning more about the outdoors. We've set him up with an old pack, stove, fire starting kit, shelter and he loves learning how to use them. After having him stay with us the past week, I would put his intelligence equivalent to about an 10-11 year old, and perhaps an IQ in the high 70's, low 80's (I've had experience testing folks back in college). He reminds me a LOT of Lenny in Mice and Men. In the amount he has told us, it seems he has made some poor decisions in his personal life through being manipulated and/or being naive. He is very honest, and have no fears of theft.

We would like to hire him to help now and then at our new land, but there are a few flags that have been raised in the course of having him stay with us this week.

1- He doesn't have the best editing function, he tells us more things than we ever needed to know about his family, several are either druggies, thugs, abusers and/or manipulators. His family lives between 70-100 miles away from us.

2- He talks a LOT. But mostly because he is bored (doesn't talk much when working), and we've been told if you don't want something shared, don't let him know.

He lives +30 miles away, does not have the ability to drive right now (perhaps this spring). Friends of ours vouched he would be great on the property, and he wouldn't remember the way to the property, especially if we took the many forest roads in our area. He has expressed concern with "bad things" coming and has asked for help in planning a budget to build preps (we set him up with some bags of beans, rice, etc., which he DOES eat, and are showing him how to use them.

Most of the work we would have him do would be forest clearing, we will be handling a lot of the main construction ourselves. If SHTF, I wouldn't hesitate to take him in, but the thought is still in my mind of some relatives showing up.

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9111315

· #2 · Oct 4, 2012

It is harder to fix loose lips than holes in ships.

Reactions: 4

Rosesandtea

· #3 · Oct 4, 2012

God bless you for wanting to help this young man.

I'd say, hire him, but don't talk to him much about what you're doing or why. Just that you want to move some things, the why can be that you like to look at deer or whatever wildlife is on your property (you do have some that you like to look at, right?

). Keep it as fun, camping, or wildlife oriented in your speech to him.

If you think things are such that you want to get out of town, and want to take him along, I would do it sooner than later, to reduce the chance of the relatives getting to his place first.

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rokitman

· #4 · Oct 4, 2012

As I stated in my thread about Opsec and trust, you just need to weigh out the risk factor. I would pick his brain more about his family....are they armed, criminal records ,etc. Because of his IQ you may not get much but any info might help you plan ahead. If you trust "him" keep him on reguardless of family. Just keep telling him to not talk about you to his family! Worry about the family if the time comes and find out where his loyalties are! Chances are he will be loyal to you because of your treatment of him! This may not be a nice comparison but take a mis-treated dog into your care and you show it love and respect, it will be loyal to you and not the family that mis-treated him! If he feels your trust, he becomes more trustworthy!

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britzen

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 4, 2012 (Edited)

Rockit- BnB and I are on that track, and a fellow SB member, who is an in-law of his, is providing a back story who has also planned steps to avoid said family.

It raised the question if we (mostly I) are too paranoid to hire anyone to help. But then again, right now, we are just clearing land, not dragging out RPG's and bunkers,

.

We drill him everyday on talking to people (especially since now he wants to go hunting and would like a 12ga) and would he trust his family to "hold on" or "borrow" them his gun, as an example. He flat out said "NO". I use the excuse that being a very private person, and only child, I get nervous sharing things.

We told him his preps could be used in case of a snowstorm and he couldn't get to the market, that's mountain living (he's new to the area,as is his family), not some socioeconoic collapse and impending doom.

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Bullets~n~Beans

· #6 · Oct 4, 2012

rokitman said:
As I stated in my thread about Opsec and trust, you just need to weigh out the risk factor. I would pick his brain more about his family....are they armed, criminal records ,etc. Because of his IQ you may not get much but any info might help you plan ahead. If you trust "him" keep him on reguardless of family. Just keep telling him to not talk about you to his family! Worry about the family if the time comes and find out where his loyalties are! Chances are he will be loyal to you because of your treatment of him! This may not be a nice comparison but take a mis-treated dog into your care and you show it love and respect, it will be loyal to you and not the family that mis-treated him! If he feels your trust, he becomes more trustworthy!

Good point about loyalty.

If they have any firearms at all it's minor.

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m47dragon

· #7 · Oct 4, 2012

I have an 11 year old son...don't underestimate their intelligence. It sounds to me like this fellow is simple minded but good hearted. That doesn't make him dumb. From what you describe, I would call him "innocent." He speaks freely to you because of trust and because he probably has an innate sense of extreme honesty: much like a child. He has an excellent sense of discernment and knows good from bad.

Take care of this soul...I imagine that he would lay down in traffic for you if he thought it would help you. Guard your words and actions around him for OPSEC sake, but be careful not to shun him. You've already stated that you'd take him in, so he is someone that you care for (lol, gotta love a stray!) Anyway, it sounds like he's a friend in the truest sense of the word. You indicated that his family is distant from him...what amount of contact does he have with them? Is he living alone now, or does he have a caretaker? Might not be a bad idea to build some quarters for the ranch-hand...maybe even find him a nice companion to share it with (good dog, nice girl, etc.)

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Bullets~n~Beans

· #8 · Oct 4, 2012

m47dragon said:
I have an 11 year old son...don't underestimate their intelligence. It sounds to me like this fellow is simple minded but good hearted. That doesn't make him dumb. From what you describe, I would call him "innocent." He speaks freely to you because of trust and because he probably has an innate sense of extreme honesty: much like a child. He has an excellent sense of discernment and knows good from bad.

Take care of this soul...I imagine that he would lay down in traffic for you if he thought it would help you. Guard your words and actions around him for OPSEC sake, but be careful not to shun him. You've already stated that you'd take him in, so he is someone that you care for (lol, gotta love a stray!) Anyway, it sounds like he's a friend in the truest sense of the word. You indicated that his family is distant from him...what amount of contact does he have with them? Is he living alone now, or does he have a caretaker? Might not be a bad idea to build some quarters for the ranch-hand...maybe even find him a nice companion to share it with (good dog, nice girl, etc.)

Honest? So far as we can tell he is very honest. Too much so, which is why we are concerned with OPSEC. And you are correct in being simple minded because is NOT dumb by any means.

He is more than capable of taking care of himself and does so quite well. The issue is more of providing *quality* guidance more than anything else. He has some excellent guidance going in his current temporary living quarters and we could expand on that.

Building 'ranch hand' quarters is an interesting idea.

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britzen

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 4, 2012

m47dragon said:
I have an 11 year old son...don't underestimate their intelligence. It sounds to me like this fellow is simple minded but good hearted. That doesn't make him dumb. From what you describe, I would call him "innocent." He speaks freely to you because of trust and because he probably has an innate sense of extreme honesty: much like a child. He has an excellent sense of discernment and knows good from bad.

Take care of this soul...I imagine that he would lay down in traffic for you if he thought it would help you. Guard your words and actions around him for OPSEC sake, but be careful not to shun him. You've already stated that you'd take him in, so he is someone that you care for (lol, gotta love a stray!) Anyway, it sounds like he's a friend in the truest sense of the word. You indicated that his family is distant from him...what amount of contact does he have with them? Is he living alone now, or does he have a caretaker? Might not be a bad idea to build some quarters for the ranch-hand...maybe even find him a nice companion to share it with (good dog, nice girl, etc.)

I agree, its probably more like an 8 yr old in naivety and abstract thought. He really does remind me of Mice and Men. He does have some basic mechanical knowledge and loves to learn. He's in contact with his "Mom" regularly, perhaps weekly? They are not his blood kin, but from what I understand, she took him under her wing about 10 years ago. But her husband is one of the D-bags we don't want around. We've met a few of the relatives, at the time we didn't have property up there and the meeting was brief.

He lives alone in a pickup truck camper in an RV park he is paying off, collecting SSI but earning extra money helping the park owner. He would be excellent as a caretaker/hand, I'm under the impression most of his family is either too cheap, too poor, or too lazy to visit him, unless he had something for them. But we have time to see how things work out since most of the building will be 6 months from now.

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Bullets~n~Beans

· #10 · Oct 4, 2012

Rosesandtea said:
you like to look at deer or whatever wildlife is on your property (you do have some that you like to look at, right? ).

Oh yea! Elk, deer, turkeys, quail, grouse, bears.....

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keepingon

· #11 · Oct 4, 2012

[We work with disabled vets with various degrees of mental problems, and one thing they usually appreciate is keeping the stress level low, so I would probably do the same with this young man, keep things nice and fun and focused on practical skills.]

I would be VERY careful what you say; 'little pitchers have big ears', lol! Maybe keep certain preps under lock and key, not because of theft, but more to stop stuff like: "my friends Bullet and Britz have LOTSSS of food, deadbeat cousin, maybe they could help you!", again, out of innocent sharing, not malice.
I would steer things towards simple tasks, and reinforcing verbally what you are doing there, like, "Let's clear this patch today, it looks nicer when it's neat" rather than "Let's clear this patch, it will make a great melon patch if SHTF and we need food, oh, and don't tell anyone, okay?".

Bless you for helping this guy, and bless him for being so hard working and helpful! :O)

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Red*Lion

· #12 · Oct 4, 2012

britzen said:
I agree, its probably more like an 8 yr old in naivety and abstract thought. He really does remind me of Mice and Men. He does have some basic mechanical knowledge and loves to learn. He's in contact with his "Mom" regularly, perhaps weekly? They are not his blood kin, but from what I understand, she took him under her wing about 10 years ago. But her husband is one of the D-bags we don't want around. We've met a few of the relatives, at the time we didn't have property up there and the meeting was brief.

He lives alone in a pickup truck camper in an RV park he is paying off, collecting SSI but earning extra money helping the park owner. He would be excellent as a caretaker/hand, I'm under the impression most of his family is either too cheap, too poor, or too lazy to visit him, unless he had something for them. But we have time to see how things work out since most of the building will be 6 months from now.

Why is he collecting SSI? Being borderline intelligence is not a reason to qualify for SSI. Maybe he has had a head injury? That type of injury can affect a person as you describe as well. May want to find out why the SSI.

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britzen

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 4, 2012

Red*Lion said:
Why is he collecting SSI? Being borderline intelligence is not a reason to qualify for SSI. Maybe he has had a head injury? That type of injury can affect a person as you describe as well. May want to find out why the SSI.

I know he has Spina Bifida, which he volunteered. I haven't asked anything else. What we HAVE asked people who have known him for years is his work ethic and honesty, which he passed with flying colors.

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Red*Lion

· #14 · Oct 4, 2012

britzen said:
I know he has Spina Bifida, which he volunteered. I haven't asked anything else. What we HAVE asked people who have known him for years is his work ethic and honesty, which he passed with flying colors.

You sound like you are well connected with your community and get very good feedback on the young man, so maybe hire him? Or, maybe say you would like to give him a probation period of work with the possibility of being hired more permanently. This would allow you to get to know him better, but still have the option to let go if something arises.

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HandLoad

· #15 · Oct 4, 2012

Blindfold Him on the Last Ten Miles In and Out. Problem Solved. OPSEC. OPSEC. OPSEC.

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keepingon

· #16 · Oct 4, 2012

HandLoad said:
Blindfold Him on the Last Ten Miles In and Out. Problem Solved. OPSEC. OPSEC. OPSEC.

Sounds good in theory, but can you imagine the next story when he's with his friends/family : "....and then they blindfolded me and ........"

:

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HandLoad

· #17 · Oct 4, 2012

If He Doesn't know how to get there, and lacks the Brains to figure it out, OPSEC is maintained, no matter what he tells his fambly.

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britzen

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 4, 2012

Ironically, we are JUST moving to the area, but have known several folks for a while. We brought him down to the place we are moving from to help finish the move (all important stuff has already been relocated and secured) and yard work, etc. He has been staying with us for a week now and we return to the Mountain tomorrow.

We have discussed what his goals are and what he sees himself doing in the future, and I see promise, but the loose lips and relatives are flags. I think this will be a good test for him and what he reports to mutual friends as far as what he did and experienced down here when we get back.

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Red*Lion

· #19 · Oct 4, 2012

britzen said:
Ironically, we are JUST moving to the area, but have known several folks for a while. We brought him down to the place we are moving from to help finish the move (all important stuff has already been relocated and secured) and yard work, etc. He has been staying with us for a week now and we return to the Mountain tomorrow.

We have discussed what his goals are and what he sees himself doing in the future, and I see promise, but the loose lips and relatives are flags. I think this will be a good test for him and what he reports to mutual friends as far as what he did and experienced down here when we get back.

I think that you are thinking wisely.

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chicom

· #20 · Oct 4, 2012

I wouldn't have him live with you. I would just have him do work for you, but nothing prep related. Clear land, cut wood, and structure erecting. Keep it all above board and leave sensitive items and discussion away from him.

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