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KOAD; FOAD; ESAD
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
[


Forrest you your boy and your crew down there are doing the Lords work.


Psalm 138:7
Though I walk in the midst of trouble, You will revive me; You will stretch out Your hand Against the wrath of my enemies, and Your right hand will save me.
Thank You Brother鈥ame to you and your people up there馃檹馃檹
 

I have control issues
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I鈥檓 pretty sure it鈥檚 still called the Mozambique drill. Or at least that鈥檚 what I always hear people call it.
I remember that the last time I discussed this drill, I made the comment that druggies can ignore body shots, but I鈥檝e never heard of one ignoring a headshot. And some punk ass little **** tells me that I鈥檒l never be able to nail a headshot in a high stress situation. Well in my mind that鈥檚 what we train for, so that when the stress comes we can still preform at the level we need too.
In my NRA "Self Defense in the Home" class a couple of years ago, it was STILL called a Mozambique Drill. Two to center mass, one to the head. Hitting the femoral artery should slow them down, as well.
 

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Beside vests, I had read one Antifa anarchist was talking about using small, homemade explosive drones to take out the fascists (patriots.) He had heard Isis used them against the military. So a good shotgun wing man may be useful to bring down explosive drone if things get that bad. But I've never shot a drone, so dunno. You just never know how things will turn out nowadays. Some of the dems are convinced we are Nazi's of the worst order.

I posted this below to gun blog, but they refused to post it, so let me recycle it here. Same subject shot placement and penetration / vests they were discussing

On one of the Paladin Press DVD's they gave out Darby's Rangers formula for taking an enemy out. One in the stomach, one in the chest, one in the mouth. But that was before vests were widespread. But I think your average attacker doesn't wear vests, but maybe that will change as things decompose.

My theory?

Head shots with a crazy attacker are very hard to do. You need to slow them down first. I learned this from up close varmint killing. With armor, start with one below the belt, right above their privates. Then one in the jugular notch. And if you know they got a vest, try to move to the side and avoid the vest; with good penetration, maybe you can go through both lungs. You can also take a hip shot that should buckle someone. And you also have the ear on the side if they have been slowed down. But you have to wonder, are they only wearing a vest and not shooting at you?

For me I gave up all the hollow point ammo. I use ball ammo or preferably nylon jacketed ammo for maximum penetration. Sadly, the nylon jacketed ammo I was using is hard to acquire any longer. It is not Teflon coated...but it is kinda close. And as a bonus, ball ammo is flawless for running.

The reason I like maximum penetration is...I like maximum penetration. I don't want my rounds stopped by bones or skull, I want the rounds to break through the bones and skull and keep going.

It is pretty simple. If I shoot someone in the heart I want it to go through the heart and out their back. If I shoot someone on the side I want it to go through both lungs and hopefully out their other side. If I shoot someone in one ear I want it to come out of the other ear. And nylon jacketed 9mm has tremendous penetration. It greatly beats many standard (non nylon jacketed) pistol calibers I've tested for penetration. Plus my guns don't have long barrels, (2 - 3 inches) so I need all the help I can get with penetration.

What about excessive penetration and innocent bystanders? Life is tough. If you hear gunshots innocent bystanders...better hit the *** deck. And it is not like I'm the hero type looking for gunfights in crowded areas. I would try to escape and unless cornered I am not out to save people. I can't fix everybody's woes, it is ether me or them.

Anyway, in 2021, as America goes down the toilet...innocent bystanders will be the least of our problems. And if you are in a crowded area and can get a contact / CQB shot, aim it downwards for a trajectory through the body.

Here are a few penetration tests I did years ago with stacked newsprint / Kraft paper to give you an idea how various ammo performs. Depending how compressed the material is, your results will vary.

.22 short 5/8 inch of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 quiet 1 inch of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 HVHP 2-3/8 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 Stinger 3-1/4 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.380 ball 3-3/8 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
.38 SP Federal ball 4 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.357 Hornady plastic tip magnum 3-3/4 inches of compressed Kraft paper (snubnose) (a)
.357 Hornady plastic tip magnum 6 inches of compressed Kraft paper (Ruger 4" barrel) (a)
9mm Hornady 6-7/8 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
9mm XXXXX nylon jacket 10 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
.45 Auto ball 4 inches of newsprint (Colt 1911)

(a) Kraft paper offers about 25% more resistance than newsprint.)

I've killed lots of animals in my day. Most of them are varmints. I trap em. I approach it as a laboratory of sorts to see how different shot placement affects the animal and kills it faster.

* are very tough animals to kill. I use standard velo .22 L.R. in a suppressed auto pistol, point-blank. (I live in a semi-urban woody area and don't want to draw attention from nosy neighbors).

Now, rabbits, groundhogs and possum roll over dead pretty fast. Especially rabbits. But * are tough as hell! I've shot them in the eye, ear, head, body and everywhere except up their buttholes and they ALL take a number of standard velo .22 L.R.'s to kill them fast. And when I say fast, I'm talking on average 25 - 40 seconds to go still.

When I killed my first 100 * or so I would have trouble getting them to stay still enough in the cage to get a head shot. They don't like looking down a gun barrel for sure. So after 100 *, I gave up with head shots first thing out.

Now, I walk up to them, give them a thump to the body and then when they are occupied with the pain, I give them a head shot then another body shot and one more in the head. I try and make all shots crisscrossed somewhat as I will go into below. It is usually all over after 20 - 30 seconds...but NEVER instantly.

* just don't drop over dead from standard velo .22 L.R. It takes 3 or 4 standard velo .22 L.R. rounds to stop the squirm within a half a minute. And some tough bastard * just growl when they take a body shot and look unaffected and just get more pissed. So I give them another one to think about, in a different spot and then go for the head. The reason I don't use Stingers is for the noise. Stingers do better but are a lot louder.

So the moral of the story is this...

View attachment 383240

You got some wild, crazy bad ass trying to kill you. Give them a few body shots to slow them down working your way up the torso then go for a shot right under the Adam's apple in the jugular notch and then work your way up to a few in the head. Something should hit, vest or not, if you start low and go up to the jugular notch. And if you have good penetration, good fortune should be on your side.

In the old days, 1950's and 60's we used to eat scrambled calf brains. They used to give me Willy's to eat. But growing up poor we ate what we could get. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is this; if you are taking someone out and not playing games, you scramble their brains. One in the forehead or eye and one in the ear. Now you have a recipe for crisscrossed scrambled brains!

Hopefully all this killing theory can stay as such...just theory. But I'm not counting on it. Just look at the trajectory America has been headed in for the last few decades. We are in the worst shape since our founding. Hell, America has gone downhill more in 2 years than it has gone 50 years or maybe longer? And praying harder won't fix it either! And in 1 or 2 more years who knows where we will be. Just no telling, none at all with the leaders we have.

Oh...one other thing. Shooting * is not the same as shooting people. But if you have never shot something and watched it die...it is a start! Personally I'd rather be left alone and do my work. But sadly you can't mind your own biz any more. The dems won't allow that...they will bring the fight to you.


View attachment 383245
Gasoline and a road flare also works good on vests, or so I've heard...
 

Premium Member
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Few of us were talking cop ambushes the other day and a bud says 鈥 We are in the only profession where our enemies can order us up w just a phone call鈥
(Luring in cops w fake 911 calls was the topic)
I much prefer my 10 power but鈥
I guess the guy has never heard of plumbers ,
Locksmiths, electricians , door dash, uber or dominoes pizza
 

Dirt Dweller
Joined
1,361 Posts
lol

Well since you asked.
I live in the country, we can see a group of thugs a long ways off.
I鈥檓 survivalist, so I believe in multiples.
I have multiple rifles capable of 1000 yards head shots, even on a windy day.
AR-15 capable of 700 yard hits all day long. (Not guaranteed head shots, but body without missing), so we let them get confident coming in to 500 yards then.
I can put my boys girlfriend on that AR-15, she will pile them up! Lol my boy ain鈥檛 going to be to happy that I put her on it. It鈥檚 a running competition between the two who is better shooter. I like poking fun at my boy. Lol
So Let鈥檚 Dance! 馃榿

I wish I could post videos to prove my capabilities. But you gotta do the whole YouTube thing.
Although we believe you we would still like to see the video.
 

Registered
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I鈥檓 pretty sure it鈥檚 still called the Mozambique drill. Or at least that鈥檚 what I always hear people call it.
I remember that the last time I discussed this drill, I made the comment that druggies can ignore body shots, but I鈥檝e never heard of one ignoring a headshot. And some punk ass little **** tells me that I鈥檒l never be able to nail a headshot in a high stress situation. Well in my mind that鈥檚 what we train for, so that when the stress comes we can still preform at the level we need too.

I still call it that too, but I have heard the PCed up new name as well. It's a shame even the 2A community is infected with wokeism.
 

KOAD; FOAD; ESAD
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I guess the guy has never heard of plumbers ,
Locksmiths, electricians , door dash, uber or dominoes pizza
Cops, especially when talking cop talk with other cops, tend to think Cop-you know this-鈥.yeah, we know about Uber, its just not on the center of everyones mind at that time鈥f you鈥檙e talking dogs, why consider cats?馃槀
 

3-7-77
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Cops, especially when talking cop talk with other cops, tend to think Cop-you know this-鈥.yeah, we know about Uber, its just not on the center of everyones mind at that time鈥f you鈥檙e talking dogs, why consider cats?馃槀
Also, very few pizza delivery guys are targeted by bad guys specifically for nefarious deeds. Not many cable instal dudes getting called out to be confronted/degraded at best and straight up murdered at worst.
 

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aim for the head, even with a helmet on you can knock them out or atleast confuzzle them enough to give you a great benefit... heck even 2-3 rounds centerbody can knock the wind out of most unless you use like a pea shooter
 

KOAD; FOAD; ESAD
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Couple of weeks ago I stopped a car w 3 thugs on a suspicious vehicle call at a high school football game鈥︹檛alk鈥 was some idjits from next town over were talking smack, etc..upshot is there was an AK in plain view on the seat..
Its a felony here to have a gun on school grounds, its in the open, all 3 knew it was there鈥hile they were standing there cuffed one of them commented to another about how good my vest fit鈥e thought they were all bulky was the way the conversation was going and he needed to look into it鈥hat particular rocket surgeon was 18鈥ne of them was 14馃檭
 

Lux in Tenebris
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Do you consider/train for such an event?
Everybody has the stuff now..true criminals and even thugs will be in it after any sort of crisis鈥o you plan on head shots? Im a pelvis guy due to all the hittable bones but stomach works too鈥
Plans anyone?
Hips & Heads....

IRA shooters often took aim at English groins, major psyop to the laddies when snipers were at work...

Read Fry the Brain for more details....
Automotive parking light Wheel Tire Car Vehicle


Fry The Brain: The Art of Urban Sniping and its Role in Modern Guerrilla Warfare Paperback 鈥 October 27, 2008
 

Super Moderator wearing a Cape
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Assuming this is not a sniper scenario, my philosophy is aim for center mass initially because that is the way I was taught, it is the way that has been reinforced throughout my career, it is the way I practice, so it is what I will do.
There is a statistically better chance to hit center mass than a head shot which is why it is taught. Two in the lethal zone, one to the incapacitating zone.
If the opponent is wearing body armor, then the first two shots are probably going to hurt/stun and the third is going to finish the job.
If the opponent can complete their attack in the time it takes to get that third shot, you have already screwed the pooch, you either let them get too close and/or you waited too long in your decision to pull the trigger.
Trying to change from your training in the heat of the moment will cost you a delay, that delay may be the difference.
 

spirit animal / unicorn
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It'll happen...

Everyone's seen body armor in movies now, and it's also really easy to get your hands on.

It also can make the difference. Let's say you're able to get a sight picture and pull the trigger. If the armor just stops that one round, well, that may be the point that something happens at your flank that takes priority over the guy you were just shooting at. You shot him, and you hit, but he's not done. If anything like that happens, that makes a bullet not count.

The USA is a huge, rich country. There may be a lot of factors at play after SHTF. There's no telling who enemies or adversaries will be (what their capabilities will be).

Even beyond that, just any random zombie could get their hands on the armor. They could strip it from a corpse. Or they could barter it from somebody.

Draw, assess, aim, shoot, assess. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

I saw a female at the deli counter in a super market a few months ago, wearing it for no apparent reason under a white t-shirt, while a bunch of us were standing in line. I almost called it in. I thought that likely, I could have not gotten away with the same thing. But I thought better of it.

She even was pulling her shirt up, to try to get us to see it. I was thinking, "Trying to provoke an incident..."

Even performers will wear it as a stunt, to show themselves as from the mean streets or something. There are photos of Kanye wearing a molle vest with a "security" patch on it. Looks like it has plates in it.

It's just not a sci-fi angle from The $6 Million Man or Charlie's Angels anymore. Just anybody could have it under the bed next to the shoebox of weed or old Playstation games.
 

Premium Member
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Also, very few pizza delivery guys are targeted by bad guys specifically for nefarious deeds. Not many cable instal dudes getting called out to be confronted/degraded at best and straight up murdered at worst.
Do you read the news ? Pizza delivery and uber drivers are getting robbed and sexually assaulted all the time. And realtors are commonly targeted by rapists ( female often attractive meets strangers alone inside an empty house ). Cab drivers are 2x more likely to be murdered on the job than cops.

So yes common everyday service people are called out to locations and targeted for violent crime, actually more often than cops. I promise you more uber drivers will be called out to be violently robbed and or assaulted in an ambush than cops will be this year. In fact i doubt the numbers will even be close. I bet more uber drivers are ambushed in a month in the usa than cops are in a year. This year so far there have been at LEAST 124 uber/lyft drivers car jacked in the usa. Thats just car jacking, not robbery assault, etc. .

In fact in one 2 year period an alleged 3000 sexual assaults by uber passengers occurred. Thats 1500 a year just with uber( according to the law firm suing them ) You think 1500 cops where sexually assaulted on the job by people who called them out in a year ?
 

Premium Member
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Assuming this is not a sniper scenario, my philosophy is aim for center mass initially because that is the way I was taught, it is the way that has been reinforced throughout my career, it is the way I practice, so it is what I will do.
There is a statistically better chance to hit center mass than a head shot which is why it is taught. Two in the lethal zone, one to the incapacitating zone.
If the opponent is wearing body armor, then the first two shots are probably going to hurt/stun and the third is going to finish the job.
If the opponent can complete their attack in the time it takes to get that third shot, you have already screwed the pooch, you either let them get too close and/or you waited too long in your decision to pull the trigger.
Trying to change from your training in the heat of the moment will cost you a delay, that delay may be the difference.

For sure.

Look if you where gonna do a home invasion or rob a store YOU would prolly want body armor. I can鈥檛 see how a crook wouldn鈥檛. It does not cost all that much either. A few hundred.

Soft BO will protect against virtually all handgun rounds. And most security and the random armed store clerk will only have handguns. Sure armed robbery is stupid , but the guy knew enough to use a gun 鈥 .
 
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