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KOAD; FOAD; ESAD
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Reason the subject came up, was trying out a new carry gun using standard half torso targets…I had the stray though pop up that Ive spent the last 31 yrs in intensive study/practice, training to instinct shoot center mass…Sure, I can pretty much put a round anywhere on a body within a second or two but draw-n-shoot?..Muscle memory says center mass…something new to work on
 

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Well you know me Forrest, I’m the guy in the ghillie suit, taking shots at 500-1000 yards out. I’m taking head shots, I’ll take out two or three, before they have a chance to decide Now is the time run!
 

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Been doing the "drill" for more decades than I can recall.

Was called the Mozambique drill,but was not a P.C. name.

Then was called the FTS drill [ fail to stop ].

And also the "body Armor Drill".

2 to the chest followed by 1 to the head ---- or until hostilitys stop.

It is still part of our departments annual qual,and one we do as part of HR218 quals.
 

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KOAD; FOAD; ESAD
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well you know me Forrest, I’m the guy in the ghillie suit, taking shots at 500-1000 yards out. I’m taking head shots, I’ll take out two or three, before they have a chance to decide Now is the time run!
Few of us were talking cop ambushes the other day and a bud says “ We are in the only profession where our enemies can order us up w just a phone call”
(Luring in cops w fake 911 calls was the topic)
I much prefer my 10 power but…
 

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Unless an assailant is wearing a plate, it isn't that hard to penetrate a vest. Most any rifle round will do so. 7.62 Tokarev is well known for blowing through soft armor in a handgun, I presume there are other options.
 

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Space Force Recruit
3 sticks of butter and a can of Cheez-Whiz
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Are we talking SHTF with rifles or every day with your daily carry? If with rifles, I’m still gonna aim center mass cause thats the biggest target regardless of if they’re armored. AP rifle ammo exists for a reason and even without it there’s a pretty good chance repeated hits on target is gonna defeat the armor. Depending on the distance of the target and bullet rise/drop you could miss the armor and hit some soft fleshy bits. If on a daily basis with a handgun, not really.
 

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Unless an assailant is wearing a plate, it isn't that hard to penetrate a vest. Most any rifle round will do so. 7.62 Tokarev is well known for blowing through soft armor in a handgun, I presume there are other options.
Depends on the vest. Level 3 vest is rated 3 pistol rounds in a triangle pattern so the 4th one might get through. Level 4 1 amount perishing 308 round or 3 standard rifle rounds. Don't forget even with body armour if someone gets hit they can break a rib and die from it. It all depends but realistically unless your on a battlefield you won't run into it. Taking a defensive position sand bags having someone load the gun while the machine guns shoots is extremely effective in a dug in position. 800 Chinese in North Korea got nearly wiped out by 28 Canadians. Galloping goose was the unit name. You can watch a documentary about it called 28 heroes. So tactics out do large numbers even if they're well armed
 

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Well you know me Forrest, I’m the guy in the ghillie suit, taking shots at 500-1000 yards out. I’m taking head shots, I’ll take out two or three, before they have a chance to decide Now is the time run!
What about the three guys flanking you? I am just having fun, no offense.

Just pontificating here but nothing changes if the perp has body armor. Nothing. I am going center mass until the threat is neutralized. If a round or two goes low or high, I don't care. I continue pulling the trigger until a mag change is due or the perp stops.
 

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Pisticus Veritas
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Do you consider/train for such an event?
Everybody has the stuff now..true criminals and even thugs will be in it after any sort of crisis…Do you plan on head shots? Im a pelvis guy due to all the hittable bones but stomach works too…
Plans anyone?
A shin hit sounds pretty painful. But to be honest ... I don't train for armored enemies. Maybe I should but I suspect that about the only person I may have to defend myself against is some zombie who tries breaking into my home or who accosts me in a parking lot.

If a foe has the sort of resources it takes to be fully armored then he'll likely be a member of a government sponsored Gestapo or international, blue-helmet type. He'll likely have more resources that I can out-match.
 

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Beside vests, I had read one Antifa anarchist was talking about using small, homemade explosive drones to take out the fascists (patriots.) He had heard Isis used them against the military. So a good shotgun wing man may be useful to bring down explosive drone if things get that bad. But I've never shot a drone, so dunno. You just never know how things will turn out nowadays. Some of the dems are convinced we are Nazi's of the worst order.

I posted this below to gun blog, but they refused to post it, so let me recycle it here. Same subject shot placement and penetration / vests they were discussing

On one of the Paladin Press DVD's they gave out Darby's Rangers formula for taking an enemy out. One in the stomach, one in the chest, one in the mouth. But that was before vests were widespread. But I think your average attacker doesn't wear vests, but maybe that will change as things decompose.

My theory?

Head shots with a crazy attacker are very hard to do. You need to slow them down first. I learned this from up close varmint killing. With armor, start with one below the belt, right above their privates. Then one in the jugular notch. And if you know they got a vest, try to move to the side and avoid the vest; with good penetration, maybe you can go through both lungs. You can also take a hip shot that should buckle someone. And you also have the ear on the side if they have been slowed down. But you have to wonder, are they only wearing a vest and not shooting at you?

For me I gave up all the hollow point ammo. I use ball ammo or preferably nylon jacketed ammo for maximum penetration. Sadly, the nylon jacketed ammo I was using is hard to acquire any longer. It is not Teflon coated...but it is kinda close. And as a bonus, ball ammo is flawless for running.

The reason I like maximum penetration is...I like maximum penetration. I don't want my rounds stopped by bones or skull, I want the rounds to break through the bones and skull and keep going.

It is pretty simple. If I shoot someone in the heart I want it to go through the heart and out their back. If I shoot someone on the side I want it to go through both lungs and hopefully out their other side. If I shoot someone in one ear I want it to come out of the other ear. And nylon jacketed 9mm has tremendous penetration. It greatly beats many standard (non nylon jacketed) pistol calibers I've tested for penetration. Plus my guns don't have long barrels, (2 - 3 inches) so I need all the help I can get with penetration.

What about excessive penetration and innocent bystanders? Life is tough. If you hear gunshots innocent bystanders...better hit the ******* deck. And it is not like I'm the hero type looking for gunfights in crowded areas. I would try to escape and unless cornered I am not out to save people. I can't fix everybody's woes, it is ether me or them.

Anyway, in 2021, as America goes down the toilet...innocent bystanders will be the least of our problems. And if you are in a crowded area and can get a contact / CQB shot, aim it downwards for a trajectory through the body.

Here are a few penetration tests I did years ago with stacked newsprint / Kraft paper to give you an idea how various ammo performs. Depending how compressed the material is, your results will vary.

.22 short 5/8 inch of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 quiet 1 inch of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 HVHP 2-3/8 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 Stinger 3-1/4 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.380 ball 3-3/8 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
.38 SP Federal ball 4 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.357 Hornady plastic tip magnum 3-3/4 inches of compressed Kraft paper (snubnose) (a)
.357 Hornady plastic tip magnum 6 inches of compressed Kraft paper (Ruger 4" barrel) (a)
9mm Hornady 6-7/8 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
9mm XXXXX nylon jacket 10 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
.45 Auto ball 4 inches of newsprint (Colt 1911)

(a) Kraft paper offers about 25% more resistance than newsprint.)

I've killed lots of animals in my day. Most of them are varmints. I trap em. I approach it as a laboratory of sorts to see how different shot placement affects the animal and kills it faster.

***** are very tough animals to kill. I use standard velo .22 L.R. in a suppressed auto pistol, point-blank. (I live in a semi-urban woody area and don't want to draw attention from nosy neighbors).

Now, rabbits, groundhogs and possum roll over dead pretty fast. Especially rabbits. But ***** are tough as hell! I've shot them in the eye, ear, head, body and everywhere except up their buttholes and they ALL take a number of standard velo .22 L.R.'s to kill them fast. And when I say fast, I'm talking on average 25 - 40 seconds to go still.

When I killed my first 100 ***** or so I would have trouble getting them to stay still enough in the cage to get a head shot. They don't like looking down a gun barrel for sure. So after 100 *****, I gave up with head shots first thing out.

Now, I walk up to them, give them a thump to the body and then when they are occupied with the pain, I give them a head shot then another body shot and one more in the head. I try and make all shots crisscrossed somewhat as I will go into below. It is usually all over after 20 - 30 seconds...but NEVER instantly.

***** just don't drop over dead from standard velo .22 L.R. It takes 3 or 4 standard velo .22 L.R. rounds to stop the squirm within a half a minute. And some tough bastard ***** just growl when they take a body shot and look unaffected and just get more pissed. So I give them another one to think about, in a different spot and then go for the head. The reason I don't use Stingers is for the noise. Stingers do better but are a lot louder.

So the moral of the story is this...

Joint Skin Hand Arm Shoulder


You got some wild, crazy bad ass trying to kill you. Give them a few body shots to slow them down working your way up the torso then go for a shot right under the Adam's apple in the jugular notch and then work your way up to a few in the head. Something should hit, vest or not, if you start low and go up to the jugular notch. And if you have good penetration, good fortune should be on your side.

In the old days, 1950's and 60's we used to eat scrambled calf brains. They used to give me Willy's to eat. But growing up poor we ate what we could get. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is this; if you are taking someone out and not playing games, you scramble their brains. One in the forehead or eye and one in the ear. Now you have a recipe for crisscrossed scrambled brains!

Hopefully all this killing theory can stay as such...just theory. But I'm not counting on it. Just look at the trajectory America has been headed in for the last few decades. We are in the worst shape since our founding. Hell, America has gone downhill more in 2 years than it has gone 50 years or maybe longer? And praying harder won't fix it either! And in 1 or 2 more years who knows where we will be. Just no telling, none at all with the leaders we have.

Oh...one other thing. Shooting ***** is not the same as shooting people. But if you have never shot something and watched it die...it is a start! Personally I'd rather be left alone and do my work. But sadly you can't mind your own biz any more. The dems won't allow that...they will bring the fight to you.


Air gun Sleeve Gesture Trigger Machine gun
 

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Depends on the vest. Level 3 vest is rated 3 pistol rounds in a triangle pattern so the 4th one might get through. Level 4 1 amount perishing 308 round or 3 standard rifle rounds. Don't forget even with body armour if someone gets hit they can break a rib and die from it. It all depends but realistically unless your on a battlefield you won't run into it. Taking a defensive position sand bags having someone load the gun while the machine guns shoots is extremely effective in a dug in position. 800 Chinese in North Korea got nearly wiped out by 28 Canadians. Galloping goose was the unit name. You can watch a documentary about it called 28 heroes. So tactics out do large numbers even if they're well armed
There's some good ceramic hybrid level 3+ plates out there that will take 6 hits of M855A1, 30 06 AP being the only one able to penetrate further than the 855A1 round; at least of the common use rounds. This is what my plates are rated for, no way I'd want to get popped 6 times though.
 

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Im experimenting with the same idea. I’ve been seeing and hearing more and more where thugs are getting body armor. Plus in a SHTF event, your neighbors and former friends are folks you may have to deal with. I’m thinking buckshot to the head or below the armor. I’m tryimg to see the grouping and range of 00, #2 and #4 buckshot. So far my 28 in barrels have the best groups at 50 yards. Im limited to where I can shoot buckshot.
 

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Was called the Mozambique drill,but was not a P.C. name.
I’m pretty sure it’s still called the Mozambique drill. Or at least that’s what I always hear people call it.
I remember that the last time I discussed this drill, I made the comment that druggies can ignore body shots, but I’ve never heard of one ignoring a headshot. And some punk ass little **** tells me that I’ll never be able to nail a headshot in a high stress situation. Well in my mind that’s what we train for, so that when the stress comes we can still preform at the level we need too.
 

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[
Few of us were talking cop ambushes the other day and a bud says “ We are in the only profession where our enemies can order us up w just a phone call”
(Luring in cops w fake 911 calls was the topic)
I much prefer my 10 power but…
Forrest you your boy and your crew down there are doing the Lords work.


Psalm 138:7
Though I walk in the midst of trouble, You will revive me; You will stretch out Your hand Against the wrath of my enemies, and Your right hand will save me.
 

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What about the three guys flanking you? I am just having fun, no offense.
lol

Well since you asked.
I live in the country, we can see a group of thugs a long ways off.
I’m survivalist, so I believe in multiples.
I have multiple rifles capable of 1000 yards head shots, even on a windy day.
AR-15 capable of 700 yard hits all day long. (Not guaranteed head shots, but body without missing), so we let them get confident coming in to 500 yards then.
I can put my boys girlfriend on that AR-15, she will pile them up! Lol my boy ain’t going to be to happy that I put her on it. It’s a running competition between the two who is better shooter. I like poking fun at my boy. Lol
So Let’s Dance! 😁

I wish I could post videos to prove my capabilities. But you gotta do the whole YouTube thing.
 
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