[Exit Strategy]

OK, I've seen the top covers with integral rings or rails.

I spent a few hours researching this but no clear choice presented itself. Opinions are all over the map.. the NCstar products get a few thumbs up but most users dog them pretty bad as being wobbly and structurally unsound.

Then there are the fugly side mount cantelever styles that seems to be robust but I can't determine how difficult they are to install, or how hard to dial in.

BTW, I have found several scopes I like. The traditional types need rings and there are a few I would consider that are dovetail (weaver) mount.

So the scope choice is settled. I would appreciate some opinions on integrated top cover scope mounts. Please.. first hand opinions only. There's already enough "I heard brand XXX is crap" info out there.

Thanks guys-

 

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

OK, I've seen the top covers with integral rings or rails.

I spent a few hours researching this but no clear choice presented itself. Opinions are all over the map.. the NCstar products get a few thumbs up but most users dog them pretty bad as being wobbly and structurally unsound.

Then there are the fugly side mount cantelever styles that seems to be robust but I can't determine how difficult they are to install, or how hard to dial in.

BTW, I have found several scopes I like. The traditional types need rings and there are a few I would consider that are dovetail (weaver) mount.

So the scope choice is settled. I would appreciate some opinions on integrated top cover scope mounts. Please.. first hand opinions only. There's already enough "I heard brand XXX is crap" info out there.

Thanks guys-

I have a box full of crap that I wasted my money on.

I have concluded there are two options, either the Kreb's beryl style mount or a POSP style scope or Russian red dot that utilizes the receiver side rail, all else is spotty in quality.

I have long optics on both of my ak's, 1 uses the POSP scope and the other is sporting a Leupold on the Kreb's Customs system.

Photos of them are posted in this thread;
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=84198

Bottom line, when it comes to optics and mount solutions do not go cheap. Cheap mounts will loosen up over time and you will suffer in the accuracy department. The Gun Tech mounts are horrible, mine kept loosening up a hair, enough to cause a tiny wiggle which resulted in >2" groups at 100m to 5" groups at 100m.

 

[Rache]

Ultimak makes a nice AK optics mount, but it is not cheap.

 

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

Ultimak makes a nice AK optics mount, but it is not cheap.

Thanks for pointing Ultimak out, they are GOFO approved

I think I may be a bit of an optics/optics mount snob lol

 

[MikeK]

Ask yourself this. When is the last time you saw a top cover mounted optic on a military AK? That's because they're not stable. All the militaries that use the AK use the side mount for a reason. I sell both kinds and I've tried both kinds. The top covers are great if you just want to put a scope on temporarily to shoot for groups. It will lose zero after enough shots, but it'll hold long enough to get some groups in. If you need the gun for serious social work, stick with something more stable like the side mount or one of the forward rails that mount solidly like the Ultimak, no gas tube covers with a rail.

 

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

Ask yourself this. When is the last time you saw a top cover mounted optic on a military AK? That's because they're not stable. All the militaries that use the AK use the side mount for a reason. I sell both kinds and I've tried both kinds. The top covers are great if you just want to put a scope on temporarily to shoot for groups. It will lose zero after enough shots, but it'll hold long enough to get some groups in. If you need the gun for serious social work, stick with something more stable like the side mount or one of the forward rails that mount solidly like the Ultimak, no gas tube covers with a rail.

The Poles use the Beryl mount

The Beryl style and side mounted POSP's, or the Belarus BP-02 picatiny mount, are the only mounts I have used that I have been able to take my scope off my rifle and put back on and maintain 100% zero.

The beryl I use is this one, it is a bit pricey but it is extremely solid and Kreb's are such a great company to do business with and will make sure you are 100% satisfied and really go that extra mile to make sure.

 

[MikeK]

The side mount does offer one thing I particularly like. That's the ability to swap optics according to what you need at the time. I have a Kobra red dot, a compact variable power scope and a gen 1 night vision that all swap on my AK. It's a lot less hassle than trying to swap on a rail. I know, I do that on a FAL too.

 

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

The side mount does offer one thing I particularly like. That's the ability to swap optics according to what you need at the time. I have a Kobra red dot, a compact variable power scope and a gen 1 night vision that all swap on my AK. It's a lot less hassle than trying to swap on a rail. I know, I do that on a FAL too.

Very true, and they are usually cheaper. Even the higher-end ones max out at about 100 dollars. I like the POSP on my 74 as it allows me to use my iron sights with the scope on which made zeroing it much easier.

 

[Rache]

The Poles use the Beryl mount

The Beryl style and side mounted POSP's, or the Belarus BP-02 picatiny mount, are the only mounts I have used that I have been able to take my scope off my rifle and put back on and maintain 100% zero.

The beryl I use is this one, it is a bit pricey but it is extremely solid and Kreb's are such a great company to do business with and will make sure you are 100% satisfied and really go that extra mile to make sure.

Not familiar with the type mount in the pic. Are my eyes fooling me, or is it locked into place in the back by the stock attachment screw??

 

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

Not familiar with the type mount in the pic. Are my eyes fooling me, or is it locked into place in the back by the stock attachment screw??

Ya, it replaces the rear sight, there is a mounting block that slides in the channel and then the rail is bolted to that. It has a hinge that allows you to lift the rail up. On the rear there is a quick disconnect that locks on to the lug that is screwed into the rear tang. It was a PITA to install and I am sure it would be an even bigger one to remove if I ever needed to (for reselling purposes). It was pretty expensive, there are cheaper versions, i had one of them, but they are flimsy and flexed whereas this one wouldn't move if you stood on it. It also has an A2 rear sight with windage, through standard m16 adjustment knob, and elevation controlled my raising/lowering the rail.

This page has the rail listed, it is called AK REAR SIGHT RECEIVER RAIL SYSTEM CATALOG NUMBER 51, and apparently they are not making them anymore as they are going to be releasing an improved version.

http://www.krebscustom.com/PartsPages/KalashnikovParts.shtml#REARRAIL

But in any event you can get a better look at it and how it works.

 

[Jeffrey]

You want-no- you need your optics to be as rock solid as possible in its relationship to the barrel. Avoid as much slack, wobble and flex as possible. This is why a scope mount cannot be part of the dust cover, and expect decent results. The dust cover is simply a cover and has no lockups, bolts, pins, etc to hold it still. Anything mounted to it will just wobble. Years ago I had a mak90 and installed a shotgun style mount to the receiver using a jig, drill bit, backing plate, and screws. It was rock solid.

Im currently waiting for someone to develop a scope that will absolutely never lose zero no matter what, then weld it to the barrel.

 

[Exit Strategy]

Thanks to all. I hate the looks and bulk of the side mount but if that's what's best.. then that's what I'll do.

When one of you guys designs the weld-on mount let me know. I have CNC machining capability.

 

[davmatt74]

Ask yourself this. When is the last time you saw a top cover mounted optic on a military AK? That's because they're not stable. All the militaries that use the AK use the side mount for a reason. I sell both kinds and I've tried both kinds. The top covers are great if you just want to put a scope on temporarily to shoot for groups. It will lose zero after enough shots, but it'll hold long enough to get some groups in. If you need the gun for serious social work, stick with something more stable like the side mount or one of the forward rails that mount solidly like the Ultimak, no gas tube covers with a rail.

Yeah, I have one that was part of the package deal when I bought my SLR95. The receiver cover is just not stable enough and takes a pretty good beating. I was thinking of a side mount for mine as well, but was unsure of installation.
Drilled and tapped an SKS years ago and broke my tap and T handle in the process of tapping the last hole. (Harbor Freight tap and die set, go figure)I had to make a run to a real hardware store to finish it.
Don't want to do that again.

 

[Supressed223]

all top cover scope mounts suck rather intensive ass ,they will not hold zero.Side mount is the only way to go Belaris mount holds up well on my Saiga 12 gauge

 

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

all top cover scope mounts suck rather intensive ass ,they will not hold zero.Side mount is the only way to go Belaris mount holds up well on my Saiga 12 gauge

The best is a beryl, it mounts from trunnion to trunnion, solid and straight and absolutely center of bore.

 

[Supressed223]

The best is a beryl, it mounts from trunnion to trunnion, solid and straight and absolutely center of bore.

got a url on that? sounds like what my buddy is needing for his 308 Saiga
I just use a reddot on the 12 for deerslugs

 

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

got a url on that? sounds like what my buddy is needing for his 308 Saiga
I just use a reddot on the 12 for deerslugs

The one I have is from Kreb's, http://www.krebscustom.com/PartsPages/KalashnikovParts.shtml

Product name: AK REAR SIGHT RECEIVER RAIL SYSTEM

They are currently producing an improved version. I have had no problems with mine retaining zero. In fact, I took the scope I was using off, put it on another rifle and zeroed to that rifle, put the scope back and dialed back to where it was and I was dead nuts on at 100m still.

The side rails are fine but sometimes they make for an uncomfortable sight picture as they sit a little high, some of them, the Belarusian BP-02 is pretty darn good but hard to find, Kalinka's has them some time.

I would suggest the Kreb's though, it offers a lot of room. I would suggest using quick detach scope rings though if you a long optic as you won't be able to lift the rail to clean with the scope on. I take my scope off to clean though and never lost zero yet though, I marked where my scope is mount and keep the scope attached to the rings.

 

[skifast]

I have a DPH Beryl rail on my AK. It is being replaced with a Chaos Titan rear rail.

The first DPH I had broke at the rear trunnion. DPH replaced it. They have very good customer service. last week, trying to sight in new optics, the screw holding the rail down at the rear trunnion kept coming loose. I switched from a Make adapter tube to a Vltor. I think the Vltor does not hold the screw as well as the Mako.

What sold me on the Chaos was a AK Operator Union video. They did push ups on the optic and drooped the rifle and the Chaos held zero.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I vote for and use ultimak rail for a red dot. Co witness is possible, ease of use is present and it keeps thing simple.