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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is an opinion piece on the 300 Blackout.

A couple of days ago I posted a question about Palmetto State Armory on the survivalistboards facebook page. There were several suggestions to go with the 300 blackout instead of the 223/5.56mm.

This is my reply to those suggestions.

Availability: While the 300 Blackout is available in the AR platform and certain high grade bolt action platforms, it has not made the migration to the lesser expensive bolt action rifles.

When this article was published there are only a handful of bolt action rifles on the market chambered for 300 Blackout. As of early 2012 Savage has cancelled its plans for a 300 Blackout rifle. A Google search for Ruger 300 Blackout did not turn up any company related information.

From a survivalist point of view, why would I want to stockpile yet “another” caliber that is chambered in a limited number of rifles?

Related Forum ThreadHow much ammunition to stockpile

223 Remington – Holy Mother of GOD, every major gun manufacturer in the world makes something in the 223.

7.62X39 – Slightly less then the Holy Mother of GOD 223 Remington, the 7.62×39 is chambered in a wide range of rifles.

308 Winchester – Holy Mother of GODs big sister, everybody and their brother and sister makes something in 308 Winchester.

Lets say that you wanted to stockpile firearms chambered in 308, we can pick from – PTR91, M1A, FN/FAL, Remington 750 Woodsmaster, and tons of bolt action rifles.

Lets say you wanted to stockpile firearms in 300 BLK, we can pick from – AR15, couple of expensive bolt action rifles.

I dont know about you, but cost is a factor with me.

Stockpiling Ammunition

Not only should we consider availability of firearms, but also the availability of ammunition.

300 Blackout will take decades to reach the availability of 223, 7.62X39 and 308 Winchester (the big 3). Unless several nations adopt the 300 BLK as their primary military round, use the 300 BLK for several decades, and then something happens so that the nations are to dump the ammunition on the world market, the 300 BLK may never reach the availability of the big 3.

If you want to buy cheap and stack deep, 300 BLK may never be an option.

It took the breakup of the USSR for shiploads of SKSs, AK47s and 7.62X39 to be dumped on the U.S. market. Anyone remember the late 1980s and early 1990s when an SKS cost $75? I thought I overpaid when I bought my Chinese SKS for $90.

Effectiveness: What can the 300 BLK do that the 30-30, 7.62X39 and 308 can not do?

One reason why the 30-30 is so popular, because it’s effective on deer sized game. The 30-30 has probably killed more deer in North America then any other caliber.

One reason why the 308 is popular, is because it’s flat shooting, accurate and effective on deer sized game.

Why fix something that is not broken?

Rule of two: Have at least two firearms per caliber, and at least 1,000 rounds per rifle. Not saying that you have to have two of the same type of rifle, but rather two rifles that shoot the same caliber. Its nice to have at least two of the same types of rifles, such as 2 ARs, or 2 Mini-14s, or 2 Mini-30s, or 2 bolt action rifles,,,, and so on.

What two rifles can you buy chambered for the 300 Blackout? Unless you want to spend a small fortune, its going to be 2 AR platform rifles.

Most survivalist already have the AR platform chambered in 223, or an AK47 in 7.62X39. What motive is there to start over? Why have 2 or 3 ARs chambered in 223/5.56mm with thousands of rounds of ammo, and then start over in 300 Blackout?

In Review: If you are new to prepping and are looking at buying an AR platform rifle, I see no reason not to consider a 300 Blackout.

If you are old timer that has been prepping for 20, 30,,, or more years, and have thousands of dollars invested in the 223/5.56mm AR platform, I see no reason to switch.

I already stockpile 22 long rifle, 223, 280, 7.62X39, 30-30 and 308. And just because some company wants to introduce yet “another” caliber I am supposed to drop everything I am doing and buy yet “another” rifle? Give me a freaking break already. Why wasn’t the 300 blackout developed in the 1950s as a replacement for the 30-06 and the 308 Winchester? Why wait 50 years to introduce a cartridge that should have been introduced half a century ago?

Did some developer for the military drop the ball in the late 1950s and early 1960s?

The 308 Winchester was developed in 1952. Why didn’t some developer in 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955,,, say “if we shorten the 308 just a little bit, it would be great for a military rifle”? Maybe some developer did make such a suggestion, and the idea was kicked out?

Why didn’t someone in the civilian market suggest something like the 300 Blackout in 1952, 1953, 1954,,,? Where was Remington, Winchester and Federal in cartridge development in the early – mid 1950s?
 

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Its a No Go! The round is not widely available.In the "shtf" scenario the idea is to have the most common caliber so as to be able to utilize the ammo found amongst the rubble ,ruins and zombies laying in the streets.Although it is a decent round,It is not wide spread.Just my .02 use it or not.Had to mention zombies since they are so popular these days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Its a No Go! The round is not widely available.In the "shtf" scenario the idea is to have the most common caliber so as to be able to utilize the ammo found amongst the rubble ,ruins and zombies laying in the streets.
Scavenging is another issue.

What are the most popular calibers?

In a total collapse, what calibers might you run across?
 

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Patient Zero
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I had the same feeling when the 40 S&W pistols came out . With the LEO's quickly and rapidly dumping the under powered 9mm pistols and upgrading their 357/38 special revolvers I realized that even without the US military adopting the round it was wide spread enough that I should be able to find some with relative ease . With out ammo a gun is just another expensive paper weight.
 

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I don't get the hype here. It's just another take on the 7.62x39 cartridge. IF you want a intermediate 30 cal round that fires from an AR platform, it is not a bad way to go.

The intent was to stretch the usefullness of the AR-15 rifle. I think the Ar-15 that uses 7.62x39 covers this role just fine. Otherwise, quality ammunition expands the capability of these intermediate rounds. I'd rather use some waulity 55gr soft point .223 ammo than FMJ 125gr .308" bullets going at 2200fps. I think the 2200 fps is more like 2000 fps. I just don't see the powder capacity of the 300 blackout sufficient enough for 2200.

Personally, I think the ammo you got is the ammo you got. With a huge population and such a small amount of resrouces utilized locally, alliances will not be formed. There won't be enough stuff leftover for folks to civil about sharing them. The stuff you got is what you got. You want it, you go for it then.

Some folks are just dead set on the latest and greatest being just as it says. In my work history with mechanical and electrical equipment, the latest and greatest are just raw and needing of a few bugs worked out.

Without a bunch of calibers, some folks who just stick to a few good guns they already know. They need to be "proven" their stuff is old and inadequate. Very little in the way of firearms replaces a well placed shot. The limitation to a well placed shot is time, money, and training; and not really firearms theselves. A vital zone 22lr hit is better than a miss with 50bmg.
 

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Scavenging is another issue.

What are the most popular calibers?

In a total collapse, what calibers might you run across?

I like your devil's advocate role....You know the standard police ,military and nato calibers.7.62x51(.308),5.56x45(223),9mmluger/para,.40,45acp.300wm however its not as widely used.Since the government stock piles this ammo.Seems that it would be a lot more available than say a 7.62x39 round.Is there a lot of surplus ak ammo? yes,However,Not nearly the amount that federal,state and local authorities have on hand as you already know.Suppose you stock piled 5 k rounds of ammo of your fav caliber,And you ran out or it got looted from you.What option do you have? Pray to come across someone else with your same type of ammo?Or maximize your chances of finding a common caliber?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don't get the hype here. It's just another take on the 7.62x39 cartridge.
The 7.62x39 is a tapered cartridge, which causes a curved magazine.



Suppose you stock piled 5 k rounds of ammo of your fav caliber,And you ran out or it got looted from you.What option do you have? Pray to come across someone else with your same type of ammo?Or maximize your chances of finding a common caliber?
That is one of the topics my buddies and I have discussed for the past 2 decades.

One of our first picks was the Ruger mini-30. But in the long run, we figured it would be better to go with some kind of military based rifle, such as the AR15.
 

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I'm not too sure where the issue lies; as far as bolt actions go, why would you even want a bolt action chambered in .300 blk? :confused: I consider the bolt action to be for accuracy, which from what I gather, isn't what the .300 blk is for. I would be extremely hesitant to get even a .223 in bolt action. My AR gets as much out of the round as I want to.

With regards to ammo availability, I was also under the impression that a lot of .300 blk users reload from .223 brass and 7.62 bullets. Am I wrong in that assumption? If I am correct, then ammo is as available as you're willing to make it.

I'm not really arguing for the use of the .300 blk, I agree it's not the ideal survival round. But I think that the number of rifles that chamber it is kinda moot; it's purpose, AFAIK, was to fire an AK bullet with AK-like performance in a reliable way through an AR15. It wasn't meant for bolt actions, unless I'm missing something.

I think it'd be cool to have, and use it when you need to use it, but I would rather grab my 5.56 if TSHTF.

With regards to looting my ammo though, they can have as much of it as they can handle. But I doubt it'll be more than 2 or 3 rounds.
 

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The 7.62x39 is a tapered cartridge, which causes a curved magazine.





That is one of the topics my buddies and I have discussed for the past 2 decades.

One of our first picks was the Ruger mini-30. But in the long run, we figured it would be better to go with some kind of military based rifle, such as the AR15.
Smart choice there will always be more available ammo in common calibers and believe any of the confiscated stuff (7.62x39)will more likely than not be destroyed on site if the powers that be decide to use military force to take back control.Just a reminder how quickly things can turn ugly.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
 

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As far as prepping is concerned 5.56 and 7.62 are still the way to go when your on a budget. 300blk has its time and place and in the next few years we will see if it becomes more widely used and more widely available. 300 blk was designed as a subsonic round that could be effectively suppressed. I personally like the round but a 5.56 AR or 7.62 AK are both better options for preppers. Solely based on price and availability.
 

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As far as prepping is concerned 5.56 and 7.62 are still the way to go when your on a budget. 300blk has its time and place and in the next few years we will see if it becomes more widely used and more widely available. 300 blk was designed as a subsonic round that could be effectively suppressed. I personally like the round but a 5.56 AR or 7.62 AK are both better options for preppers. Solely based on price and availability.
And i will stick to my bolt rifles in .308."Shoot and run away Live to shoot another day". I couldn't resist using the old sniper quote.:D:
 

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.300 with a can and subsonics are stupid quiet you only hear the action. Not to mention they have FANTASTIC ballistics coming out of a SBR as short as 8.5"

Im in the process of building one and then I'll just buy a few thousand rounds to stock up on
I have never been near a suppressed weapon being fired and only heard the action, unless I was an actor in an action movie.

the .300 blk is over rated. Like others have said, an answer to a ploblem that had already been answered.
 

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I have never been near a suppressed weapon being fired and only heard the action, unless I was an actor in an action movie.

the .300 blk is over rated. Like others have said, an answer to a ploblem that had already been answered.
no you don't JUST hear the action. But a .300 properly suppressed is one of the least noisy calibers i've ever witnessed. And by FAR the quietest caliber with enough energy to be considered as a viable option for two legged varmints.

 
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