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PreparationInBubbaNation
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a copy of my recent correspondence to Congressional staffers involved in an investigation where a Congressional committee ordered DOD to halt the destruction of brass. :(

"I am an Army Reservist stationed at Fort Jackson, SC

This week I was required to take the Fort Jackson Ammunition Handlers course so that I could certify turn in of ammunition and residue.

I had seen your previous correspondence regarding the destruction of brass having been halted.

I want to assure you that it has not stopped in any such manner.

Here at Fort Jackson over the last year, the Army destroyed over 29 million brass cases;
I would calculate the loss to the taxpayers at approximately $5 million dollars from this one
installation alone based on what I pay for brass minus the scrap value (estimated $1 million recovered)

The Ammunition Supply Point is shipping a truckload of demilled (crushed) brass for melt every month.

The most recent destruction took place this month, and is not scheduled to stop.

The reason I have to certify in fact is that if any live cartridges get mixed in the brass, they present a detonation
hazard to the operator during crushing and I can be held liable.

I was told by one of the two gentlemen conducting the certification class, that to his knowledge,
no instruction was received to stop destruction. I believe him and he is an honorable man.

He told me that some months ago they were instructed to seperate the ammo by type for resale by DRMO.
They had to resume the destruction when DRMO failed to pick it up for resale.

It is possible that the market might not be able to absorb all of this material, but this indicates that absolutely
no attempt was made and appears as if DRMO refused to list for sale.

I believe this is not an ASP problem but a DRMO problem, which refused to market the brass." :eek:
 

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The Power of III
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Thanks for bringing this to light and for relaying the information to "the powers that be" so to speak.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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would it not be in their interest to reload the brass at an economy for the purposes of training?
 

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11B20 - Status Inactive
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Does this have anything to do with this Excel file floating around;
http://www.govliquidation.com/download?file=/salescalendar/event7391.csv

For those without excell;

7391,8960,"LOT (42, 000 LBS)APPROX 20MM FIRED BRASS IN WOODEN BOXES WHICH ARE NOT INCLUDED IN SALE OR WEIGHT OF SALE. **GL WILL LOAD ROLL-OFF OR END DUMP TYPE CONVEYANCE ONLY** ALL SCRAP UNDER THIS CONTRACT REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE BASE OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DoD PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION.
7391,8961,"LOT (169, 000 LBS)APPROX 30MM FIRED ALUMINUM IN WOODEN BOXES WHICH ARE NOT INCLUDED IN SALE OR WEIGHT OF SALE. **GL WILL LOAD ROLL-OFF OR END DUMP TYPE CONVEYANCE ONLY** ALL SCRAP UNDER THIS CONTRACT REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE BASE OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DoD PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION.


These are records of the sale of military casings. In this case it is 20 and 30mm aluminum casings being sold, and note that they are being sold as scrap and are required to be "mutilated" before being sold. It is dependent upon the "contract" that is involved.

Before we get our panties in a bunch again, please realize that the gov't does sell a certain amount as scrap metal. After all, doesn't someone make a buck off of making new cases out of recycled brass?
 

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I checked on the govliquidation site earlier today and they do resell some intact casings, but they require an ffl to buy it.
 

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Looks like rain to me.
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Typical gooberment, right side of the mouth says one thing while the left hand does something different.

Somebody re send the memo.
 

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The Power of III
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I thought the reason everyone got so up in arms about this to begin with earlier this year was because if the brass is sold without being destroyed, it can be used for reloading and the military can make more money from it than they could by selling it as scrap.

Seems this does need to be looked into.
 

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PreparationInBubbaNation
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
would it not be in their interest to reload the brass at an economy for the purposes of training?
One would think, but that is too obvious a solution

Also, they don't segregate war stocks from training ammo, it's the same stuff and just gets shipped to different addresses
 

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sic transit gloria mundi
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If it's 20mm and 30mm brass (as suggested by the 2nd article) that's being melted down, I think that's probably ok. Putting rifle cases into general circulation is one thing, putting cannon cases out there is another (although I doubt the NRA would agree with me).
 

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PreparationInBubbaNation
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
that my dear Frothy would be because 20mm and 30mm are destructive ordnance, not small arms, They would be illegal to possess or reload.

crushing them has little to nothing to do with 9mm, 5.56 or 7.62

Does this have anything to do with this Excel file floating around;
http://www.govliquidation.com/download?file=/salescalendar/event7391.csv

For those without excell;

7391,8960,"LOT (42, 000 LBS)APPROX 20MM FIRED BRASS IN WOODEN BOXES WHICH ARE NOT INCLUDED IN SALE OR WEIGHT OF SALE. **GL WILL LOAD ROLL-OFF OR END DUMP TYPE CONVEYANCE ONLY** ALL SCRAP UNDER THIS CONTRACT REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE BASE OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DoD PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION.
7391,8961,"LOT (169, 000 LBS)APPROX 30MM FIRED ALUMINUM IN WOODEN BOXES WHICH ARE NOT INCLUDED IN SALE OR WEIGHT OF SALE. **GL WILL LOAD ROLL-OFF OR END DUMP TYPE CONVEYANCE ONLY** ALL SCRAP UNDER THIS CONTRACT REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE BASE OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DoD PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION.


These are records of the sale of military casings. In this case it is 20 and 30mm aluminum casings being sold, and note that they are being sold as scrap and are required to be "mutilated" before being sold. It is dependent upon the "contract" that is involved.

Before we get our panties in a bunch again, please realize that the gov't does sell a certain amount as scrap metal. After all, doesn't someone make a buck off of making new cases out of recycled brass?
 

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11B20 - Status Inactive
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that my dear Frothy would be because 20mm and 30mm are destructive ordnance, not small arms, They would be illegal to possess or reload.

crushing them has little to nothing to do with 9mm, 5.56 or 7.62
A 20mm or 30mm Training round wouldn't be destructive and wouldn't be illegal, ($200 tax stamp) http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm go buy one if you have the 12k floating around. Which since we don't go around collecting brass from the battlefield 99% of the ammo will be training ammo (which is an inert aluminum projectile meant only for gunnery).

What has to do with the 9mm, 5.56, 7.62 is that the same site, govliquidation.com, has thousand upon thousands of pounds of 5.56/7.62/9mm brass, intact. And what you missed is that there are some lots that are marked, must be mutilated while others are not. I know we in the gun world would like to think we have a corner in the market and that ALL brass must only be used for ammo but perhaps there are other uses, plumbing fixtures etc., that companies get surp. mutilated brass for.

Also, I would be PO's to know that my 20 dollar box of ammo is made from already fired brass. which I am sure not all .223 on the shelves is made form recycled brass. Probably more likely MOST of the recycled brass is sold right back to the Gov't, which is a fact as all mil. ammo is from recycled brass. Honestly, I think people forget that the biggest consumer of reloaded military brass IS the military.

And where exactly is this information coming from? Has this been substantiated or is this coming from "my cousin Frank" type deal. What we don't need is another big what to do over nothing and people driving up the ammo costs again.
 

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If it's 20mm and 30mm brass (as suggested by the 2nd article) that's being melted down, I think that's probably ok. Putting rifle cases into general circulation is one thing, putting cannon cases out there is another (although I doubt the NRA would agree with me).
I don't agree with you, either. Especially since I own a rifle that's being converted to shoot 20mm Vulcan that they're destroying for scrap. :mad:
 

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11B20 - Status Inactive
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I don't agree with you, either. Especially since I own a rifle that's being converted to shoot 20mm Vulcan that they're destroying for scrap. :mad:
Not all is being melted down, there are contracts that are shredded and contracts that are not.
 
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