Exactly what is the point of this here thread.................This topic has been beat to a pulp already.:xeye:

 

did seem to ramble a bit ok more than a bit.

 

Firearms training is more important than firearm selection.

Edited for brevity

 

Repition I guess.

 

My favorite part of this Topic is this reply right here.

 

You must be able to shoot and move with your weapon. A 6 or 7 pound AR rifle will be always be faster to aim and hit than a 12 pound M1 Garand or other older bolt action or even heavier .308 type weapon. Try to carry a heavy M1 with 200 rounds of ammo all day and then try to hold it steady to aim while standing or moving. If you are built like Tarzan or Conan
Or the average WW-2 Grunt.
XR750

 

Still trying to figure out how a handgun is a stealth weapon

 

You made some points...but before you rant about something that will forever be an ongoing debate, take into consideration lethality of the round in question...also take into consideration kills per round ratios concerning certain rifles and rifle calibers when they've been used in combat. My final point is that a bolt action rifle of almost any type is consistently more accurate than a semi auto and it doesnt neccessarily matter how many rounds you can sling as it does how many you can hit your target with

41B

 

The one best self defense weapon for almost all situations will be a compact, lightweight rifle with high capacity magazines. The one best weapon would therefore be an AR/M4 type rifle in .223/5.56 cal.

So, all the other lightweight, reliable, magazine fed rifles in various intermediate calibers are subpar and obsolete to a 50 year old AR? Jeez, only hear this 24/7.

Try to carry a heavy M1 with 200 rounds of ammo all day and then try to hold it steady to aim while standing or moving. If you are built like Tarzan or Conan then you won't have as much of a problem.

Most people's ARs weigh as much as most people's MBRs. Most MBR guys tend to not dress up a rifle so much, most AR guys tend to put 3 lbs or more of do-dads on it. You get the same net result...

Low capacity bolt action rifles are obsolete as MBRs (main battle rifles). They are fine for sniper work or civilian hunting, but are a poor choice otherwise.

Ok, now you're just being silly.

This being said I would always bet on a trained combet veteran armed with an old bolt action rifle and a .38 special winning a firefight than some untrained kid with the latest and greatest firearms. Firearms training is more important than firearm selection.

We agree, so what was the point of the former part of your rant? Most guys who choose MBRs are old school vets anyways, and even those who aren't choose MBRs precisely because a lightweight, intermediate rifle can't cut the muster in certain environments, and for certain purposes. Also, an extra pound or two really isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. Where's my M1a brethern! DEFEND THE MBR! /kidding /kind of

Anyways, perhaps some weight lifting and extra PT is in order?

 

So, all the other lightweight, reliable, magazine fed rifles in various intermediate calibers are subpar and obsolete to a 50 year old AR? Jeez, only hear this 24/7.




Most people's ARs weigh as much as most people's MBRs. Most MBR guys tend to not dress up a rifle so much, most AR guys tend to put 3 lbs or more of do-dads on it. You get the same net result...



Ok, now you're just being silly.




We agree, so what was the point of the former part of your rant? Most guys who choose MBRs are old school vets anyways, and even those who aren't choose MBRs precisely because a lightweight, intermediate rifle can't cut the muster in certain environments, and for certain purposes. Also, an extra pound or two really isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. Where's my M1a brethern! DEFEND THE MBR! /kidding /kind of

Anyways, perhaps some weight lifting and extra PT is in order?

I have disagreed with you before but this time you are exact spot on.

 

For me, and the average person, the AR (InMyMostHumbleOpinion) is the most useful to carry around and fight with. However, my favorite is my pre-ban HK-91. It has never failed to fire in over 25 years. In a fixed position, with a good field of fire, I will use it first. I would always pick an M14, HK-91, FN-FAL, etc. over a SMLE or other type bolt gun unless I was going to try to hit beyond 300 or 400 yards, and then it would be a sniper rifle.

By the way, I'm so tough, that when I go to the beach, I kick sand in my own face.

 

LOL. Fair enough.

 

The best rifle is the one I have at ready, loaded, at the exact time I need it for the task at hand.

 

I agree more with this post. The best gun is the one you have in your hands.

If you carry your fancy M4 or AR all the time and keep it ready to go then it will work well.

If you leave it back at camp or allow it to become jammed with dirt, you will fare poorly.

I live in a dirty environment and have a lot of work to do (other than gun maintenance) so there will be may times I will choose one of my old, overweight, obsolete bolt actions.

 

I think we need to look at the marksmanship and the woodscraft before we worry overmuch about whether the action works itself or has to be worked manually. And Greataxe, I disagree with you, emphatically. Out here in the country, I want one of the original Cavalry Killer cartridges at my disposal. The .223 just don't cut it.

 

Oh man, is flstate or whatever that annoying kids screen name was back again?? I get so SICK of reading this you just can't survive without an ar or glock BS. 5.56 is a joke unless you're worried about zombie rodents attacking you, seriously.

 

A 6 or 7 pound AR rifle will be always be faster to aim and hit than a 12 pound M1 Garand or other older bolt action or even heavier .308 type weapon.

Uh, not really. The Garand is one of the easiest rifles ever made to hit with. It's short stock, low bore axis, and excellent sights combine to allow easy hits at defensive ranges.

I have a Steyr Scout in .376 and it's as fast and easy to use as my AUG, FAL or AR's. At 25 yards, I can easily take a head shot in 1.5 seconds from port, high ready or low ready.

Bolt rifles aren't dead and Garands for sure are still one of the best MBR's. You just have to know their limitations, as well as your own and make use of their strengths.

 

use what works for you, but "obsolete" seriously? lol I won't go there. You will eventually learn.

 

I like bolt actions myself. *shrug

 

I kinda like 'em all.

 

Obsolete is such a bad word. Not because of political correctness, but because it gives a false impression. Before 2001 the military would call the m14 obsolete. Now it is being used for the most part as a designated marksman rifle. think when talking about weapons we can't really call them obsolete if they can shoot. I'm not gonna get dragged int the whole MBR argument again, but what's obsolete about any .308 that CAN still shoot, or 30-06 for that matter.

Weight being the issue for grunts on the battle feild they chose a lighter round for the most part. Just because of the government ill informed decisions doesn't make the a weapon obsolete.

 

The one best self defense weapon for almost all situations will be a compact, lightweight rifle with high capacity magazines. The one best weapon would therefore be an AR/M4 type rifle in .223/5.56 cal. Any good semiauto handgun in the 9mm, .45 or .40 cals. is good for back up. You would already be in deep trouble if it came to using your handgun.

You must be able to shoot and move with your weapon. A 6 or 7 pound AR rifle will be always be faster to aim and hit than a 12 pound M1 Garand or other older bolt action or even heavier .308 type weapon. Try to carry a heavy M1 with 200 rounds of ammo all day and then try to hold it steady to aim while standing or moving. If you are built like Tarzan or Conan then you won't have as much of a problem. Low capacity bolt action rifles are obsolete as MBRs (main battle rifles). They are fine for sniper work or civilian hunting, but are a poor choice otherwise. Handguns are for stealth or back up. Common wisdom says it's better to have 16 rounds than 6. Just look at what our police and military carry and see absence of revolvers.

This being said I would always bet on a trained combet veteran armed with an old bolt action rifle and a .38 special winning a firefight than some untrained kid with the latest and greatest firearms. Firearms training is more important than firearm selection.

best weapon in a survival situation is your brain. and to avoid confrontation when you can a small injury that is fixable with antibiotics now can be life threatening when its unavailable so best strategy os one of avoidance.

Whatever dude weapons are like tools different ones are best suited for different applications and situations there is no one gun fits all.

In a shootout in a afganistan/iraq type scenario yes your in bad shape if you have to use a pistol

but what about you if the SHTF and your at work I doubt you waltz around town and to the office with a tacked out ar with a 100rnd drum. in that case a pistol is the logical choice

you really need some help if you think bolt actions are obsolete.
nice thing about bolt actions is it forces you to make every shot count no spray and pray option and there still very effective in combat roles thats why almost every army has some version and fields them.

all are different tools that do different jobs some have more or less overlap with other weapon systems

And I think you will find us veterans having seen what firefights are all about and seeing our friends die are going to do everything we can to lay low and avoid confrontations as unlike now theres no chopper coming to take the wounded to a hospital and we wont be able to replace casualties esp other well trained ones

 

A black plastic rifle with enough picatinney rails to fence in a cattle pasture and twelve pounds of tacticool add on crap does not make one a rifleman, any more than a teenager with a learners permit and a Ferrari is a race car driver. Too many young whippersnappers can't grasp that fact.
Me? I'm the old geezer with the bone stock M1.:

 

Unlike some people I know, I don't carry an AR in my car. I have a CCP and have a 9mm Berretta that I carry with my bug-out-bag in my car. By myself, in a SHTF senario I would try to make it to safety (or home). Escape and evasion would be my goal. Lugging around a rifle on foot would not be such a good idea in so many situations. A concealed handgun is much better.

Now if I were bugging out in a car, or with group of fellow survivalists, then I'd bring all the artillary.

 

ARE YOU SAYING THAT IN A shtf SITUATION, trying to make your way home you would prefer to only have a sidearm?

 

12 pounds? Do not know much about guns?
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1rifle.html
A M1 Garand about the same weight as a standard AK-47.
Arnie or Whambo to carry all day?
The average WW2 GI weighed less and was smaller in statute than the average ground pounder today and they carry about the same weight combat load.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/Combat-load-1.htm
Average height was 5"6 While Sylvester is not much taller The average American WW2 soldier was not a genetic muntant but managed to log around a M-1 Garand ammo and gear through swamps, mountains, jungles ect and still fight effectively.
Really is the rate of fire of a couple of semi-auto ak's greater than a WW2 M-38 or 42?
Yet American GI's effectively used M-1 Garands against them.
Maybe you should do a lot of research before making such factually incorrect statements.

 

So some of us like the 5.56 because it is flyweight and so is the ammo.

Some here like the 7.62 because of its greater penetration.stopping power and range,and they are willing to carry the extra weight to get it.

Weither you trash either round means nothing because you wont change anyones mind.

 

you have rung a bell you cant unring.

why do snipers in the military use bolt action rifles typically with 5 round mags

 

'Cause they have a spotter right next to 'em with an M-4. And a 9mm on their side.

 

Cause they are pacifists?

 

... The M1 Garand is probably the best rifle ever devised...

Scratch that... it is.

7.62x63: Good.
8 round capacity: Good
Semi auto: Amazing

 

Now in my case, in my condition, old, out of shape, bad knees, with mediocre eyesight it is wise to have a gun for all occassions. Since I cant run I'll have to be defensive so I have my Romak Psl, and Rem 770 for sniper shots, if I miss then I have my SKS, AK, M-4, and Mini-14 for when they get closer! If they make it past that I have my Mossberg 500, and Sig229! If I still miss I guess I deserve to die because if they are that close I still hav'nt hit anything, I guess my Snubby 38 wont help much either!

Yea I best keep practicing those longer shots!

 

nah, when they get that close you whip out your WWII issue M3 Trench Knife and go down swinging. or your E tool.: