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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'd like to get a muzzleloader, but just as a back up. I won't be using it regularly.

I don't want to spend a fortune. I do intend on putting a descent scope on and don't want to buy a muzzleloader that comes with a cheap scope.I'd rather buy a quality scope later down the road.

I was thinking between the CVA Wolf and Traditions Tracker. Both are under $200
 

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I have 2 wolf's and 2 Optima's. Both are great guns and extremely accurate. If it were not one of them I would go with a TC Omega. Best of luck.
 

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Check your local hunting regulations well. States have certain limitations. Some have no scopes, no sabots, no certain powders, and some have specil flintlock seasons. A few do not allow shotgun primered models too

I would buy the best type of muzzleloder that affords me the best season extension.

CVA and traditions will treat you ok. Shop carefully around for a thompson center omega, even if used. With the pace of technology, many hunters are buying muzzleloaders annually like some do with comound bows in recent years.

My omega is great, good enough where I sold my shotgun rifled slug barrel in favor of just using blackpowder.

If your area doesn't allow scopes. I would look closely at what peep sight options the firearm model has.
 

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Seems from taking a peek at some forums on the topic. Here's the in and outs of muzzleloading in Colorado.

No sabots
No pellets
Blackpowder or substitutes only, modern smokeless one like white hot might not be ok
no scopes, irons sight only, fiber optic sights are ok
40 cal min for deer 50 cal min for moose and elk
210gr bullet weight min for 50 cal and bigger, 170gr otherwise.
shotgun primers are ok.

No clue about any late season flintlock only like some other states have.
 

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I got the Traditions Lightening a few years back when I decided to dabble back into black powder again. But I have bought the required adapter kit to fire 209 shotgun primers and use Sabots and use the firber optic sights that came with it.

Since you cant use Sabots in Colorado, I would seriously suggest getting a model that could shoot the heavy lead slugs without the use of a sabot as opposed to one with rifling suited to using round lead balls. I would also recommend the firber optic sights as well. I would also consider a in-line that allowed for the use of shotgun primers and had a removable breach plug to make cleaning and unloading easer too. The shot gun primers make for a excellent and very reliable ignition system thats hot enough to light any Black Powder or Black Powder substitute powder charge. Shotgun primers are also reasonably cheap when bought by the 1000 instead of buying just a 100 at a time.
 

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I'd like to get a muzzleloader, but just as a back up. I won't be using it regularly.

I don't want to spend a fortune. I do intend on putting a descent scope on and don't want to buy a muzzleloader that comes with a cheap scope.I'd rather buy a quality scope later down the road.

I was thinking between the CVA Wolf and Traditions Tracker. Both are under $200
You don't want a cheap scope but you are going to buy a toss up between the two cheapist muzzle loaders on the market?

?????:confused:?????

Only on the survival boards!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You don't want a cheap scope but you are going to buy a toss up between the two cheapist muzzle loaders on the market?

?????:confused:?????

Only on the survival boards!

That was funny :D:

At least give credit for not cheaping out on both like a lot or people do. As far as CO laws go, I'm not studding them nor do I even know what they are, because I have no intentions of hunting with it,unless its post-SHTF.

I'll be using my own cast bullets as I just ordered a LEE Production IV pot. I want a muzzleloader for a back up SHTF gun if it comes down to me running out of metallic ammo for my other guns. Whatever muzzleloader I get will only see target work for a long while...I hope ? . Anything to cut costs. Sabots are too expensive to stock up on, I'm gonna cast like crazy when I start getting molds in. My wanting a muzzleloader is for POST-SHTF reasons ONLY, I won't be hunting with it until then, so hunting laws concerning muzzleloading in my state are a moot point.
 

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civilizationsend.com
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in SA a muzzle loader is almost the only way to go due to gun law restrictions - you can have as many as you like - only the powder requires a permit ,, best way is to get a pistol like a glock or CZ with the full shebang license taking 2 to 3 years ,, and then get a muzzle loader rifle or 2 which takes 2 to 3 weeks for a black powder permit,
 

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You are wasting your time with this purchase. Every firearm in the world can use black powder. You want to buy a firearm that uses primers to shoot. You already have those.

Buy a reloading setup. Buy cast and buy spare powder. Where are you going to find sulphur that easily?

Do a search on red powder on here. It uses iron oxide instead of sulphur, it is limited to smaller bore sizes. I made a small batch and tried it out of my marlin 336. Worked just fine. Shot out 6 rounds, then clean the gun and fired 6 more. No problems what so ever.

People thinking they will run out of ammunition is silly. First off, if a bad situation really happens, 95% of the land in this country will be barren of big game. 300 million people will do anything they can to eat. during the last depression of 1930, the same thing happened in many states of the union with only 125 million in population and only 20-25% unemployment. Some folks turned into professional poachers to earn a living. How many of those can be in your area until wild game is gone.

The other thing is how many bullet will fly out you without one hitting you? Very few on here would propably survive 100 rounds. Best thing to do is lay low and avoid people.

A good muzzleloader and scope will cost you $500. Buy a cheapie mosin nagant for $100, another $200 worth of ammo will get you about 800-1200 rounds. Now you got $200 left. Buy $200 worth of 22lr ammo. Probably about 3500-5000 rounds worth of it for that price. Don't touch that amount.

This sure beats having a single shot gun that you will have some serious problems finding shotgun primers and sulphur for. Far as using modern supplies, reloading a .30-30 cartridge is about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of filling a muzzleloader with 100 graisn of powder, a primer, and a sabot or patch. It even uses 1/2 the lead too. The reason they call it 30-30 is 30 cal bore with 30 grains of blackpowder.

IF you do experiment with black powder, no need to measure, fill the case up with powder. Any empty space in there will case the powder to burn very quickly and cause a high pressure situation. You actually want to compress the powder a bit when doing this on a reloader.
 

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SOH,

did you miss your hug this morning?

Like always, part of what you say is true, the other part you have no clue.

A person should use every option available to them to stay alive. The very thing you say will never happen is just exactly what will take you out.
 

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The 30-30 was never ment to be used with black powder, it had 30 grains of the new smokless loaded in it. Personally I would stock up on ammo or reloading supplies. If you want a muzzle loader to play with that is your business.
 

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Colorado,
as others have stated, the issue with a modern muzzle loader is that they have similar requirements of supplies as a center fire. you will have to pre-stock those supplies now. IMHO, as you may have realized, everyone has their own opinion of what to have as a backup in the SHTF. both rifles that you mentioned are more than adequate for taking deer sized animals and depending on bore size both can handle elk etc. so get the one that fits you better. every rifle fits each shooter differently, and that should be your final deciding factor for purchase since they are similar in price. other threads in this forum detail the preferences between inline and side lock, flint vs percussion and so on. recommend that you research those as well. it will be a personal choice that you will have to make. I have an old percussion side lock rifle but am considering a flint lock for many of the same reasons that you are considering a muzzle loader for your back up. I've made gunpowder but making percussion caps is outside of my skills set. ask yourself what you skills set limits are. i will close for now and hope this helps you in your decision.

Curlyjoe
 

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Colorado,
as others have stated, the issue with a modern muzzle loader is that they have similar requirements of supplies as a center fire. you will have to pre-stock those supplies now. IMHO, as you may have realized, everyone has their own opinion of what to have as a backup in the SHTF. both rifles that you mentioned are more than adequate for taking deer sized animals and depending on bore size both can handle elk etc. so get the one that fits you better. every rifle fits each shooter differently, and that should be your final deciding factor for purchase since they are similar in price. other threads in this forum detail the preferences between inline and side lock, flint vs percussion and so on. recommend that you research those as well. it will be a personal choice that you will have to make. I have an old percussion side lock rifle but am considering a flint lock for many of the same reasons that you are considering a muzzle loader for your back up. I've made gunpowder but making percussion caps is outside of my skills set. ask yourself what you skills set limits are. i will close for now and hope this helps you in your decision.

Curlyjoe
I'm not allowed to post the instruction on how to make percussion caps here but check out my blog http://civilizationsend.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/sodium-chlorate/
 

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Hey Colorado,
Go ahead and buy a smokepole if you want to. You can have a world of fun shooting it for little money and if you happen to have a 3 or 4 cans of Pyrodex RS if/when SHTF it might come in handy. I believe you cannot have to many options. I have a Thompson percussion sidelock I built about 25 years ago and it has brought me great pleasure in target shooting and hunting. I hunt deer with it every year and the idea of one shot one kill keeps me on my toes, compared to the spray and pray "hunters". Good Luck
 

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NEW! Traditions™ Canyon .50-Caliber Muzzleloader with Gun Case $149.00 at Cabelas this weekend. I'm gonna get 1 for deer season Dec 17 ~ Dec 27th
 

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Ya i have a traditions and love it. But my brothers they shot cva. Both are decent guns. In Mo. if you dont tag out during rifle season you can hunt blackpowder season. So i rack hunt rifle season so i can hunt black powder season. I love mine. Ben shooting smoke poles for about 17yrs now and love it. One of the only guns that you can shoot all day and only fire about 10 times!!!! Lol
 

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If you have a Mossberg 500 or a Maverick 88, a muzzleloader barrel would be a good way to go. Would allow you to get yet another multi use out of a good gun, you can use the same mounting rail or clamshell mount for a scope if you use one now, and you can use the 209 primers from any shotgun ammo.

Peace and long life.

rich
 
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