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The Hammer & Anvil
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I have seen the question be asked a few times including to myself, and I have seen the descriptor tossed around in our forums towards others. So in an effort to strictly define what a real "neocon" is I present this info.

So what is a neocon besides some name that the liberals gave to the Bush Administration?..........
Actually Neocon's have been around a lot longer than that.

Neo-conservatives are defined by the dictionary as:

–noun moderate political conservatism espoused or advocated by former liberals or socialists

an approach to politics or theology that represents a return to a traditional point of view (in contrast to more liberal or radical schools of thought of the 1960s)

Sounds peachy keen but it is misleading. It is actually more of the same.

Most of the hardlined neocon's are bound by this mission statement The project for the new American century. Or PNAC.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Taken from the wiki on PNAC:


The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. that lasted from early 1997 to 2006. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan.

The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership." Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."

The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.

Moving along...

The main proponents of PNAC are:

Paul Wolfowitz
Donald Rumsfeld
Lewis Libby (skooter)
Steve Forbes
Jeb Bush
**** Cheney
Richard Armitage
John R. Bolton
Eliot A. Cohen
Seth Cropsey
Francis Fukuyama
Dov S. Zakheim
Robert B. Zoellick

If you do not recognize names here look them up and see what their jobs were and how they used them to promote this agenda.

Now you know some of the who, the when let's mix this up and see WHAT a neocon stands for:

According to critics like Paul Reynolds, PNAC promoted American "hegemony" and "full-spectrum" dominance in its publications.

Ebrahim Afsah, in "Creed, Cabal, or Conspiracy – The Origins of the Current Neo-Conservative Revolution in US Strategic Thinking", published in the German Law Journal, cited Jochen Bölsche's view that the goal of the PNAC was world dominance or global hegemony by the United States.

According to Bölsche, Rebuilding America's Defenses "was developed by Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Libby, and is devoted to matters of 'maintaining US pre-eminence, thwarting rival powers and shaping the global security system according to US interests.'"

George Monbiot, a political activist from the United Kingdom, stated: "...to pretend that this battle begins and ends in Iraq requires a willful denial of the context in which it occurs. That context is a blunt attempt by the superpower to reshape the world to suit itself."

My favorite quote dealing with this to share with people is the following:

PNAC co-founder Robert Kagan countered such criticism in his statement during a debate on whether or not "The United States Is, and Should Be, an Empire"

An empire of what? Uneducated polarized opinionated American Idol watching GMO eating pacifists? YES!

NOW PAY ATTENTION SLOW POKES!

"New Pearl Harbor" (this was written before 9/11)


Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor"



HMM THINK REAL HARD. You think your liberal counter parts chief of staff statement of "Let no crisis go to waste" was original.. NO.


Anyway at this point I know 99% of you left and right wing nuts are tired of reading and are already making up your own excuses to make this a conspiracy. SO not to disappoint..




Watch it, then chime in!


I think many people throw around the term neocon to lightly and don't really know what it means, especially the talking heads. The "neocons" are a subgroup of the so called conservative right, not all republicans are neocons though.
 

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What a horrible agenda!

1. Promote American global leadership (vs muslim leadership or UN leadership, or Chinese leadership)

2. Military strength (vs being a punching bag for the petty dictators)

3. Moral clarity ( by all means let us accept depravity)

And the critic cited is: Ebrahim Afsah,

Who cites

Jochen Bölsche's view that """the goal of the PNAC was world dominance or global hegemony by the United States."""

As opposed to the UN or the muslim countries having global dominance?

OK Ebrahim, it's hard for me to decide which is worse!!!!!!
 

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Inglourious Basterd
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My definition of Neocon = Far Right mindset - a neocon will always take the side of Big Business over the common man or the environment.
Traits;
Incapable of compromise
Incapable of admitting mistakes
anti environment
against a respectable minimum wage
against holding corporations responsible for their actions.

Their lobby - Big Oil , Military contractors, Tobacco, Coal ,Pharmaceutical

Carl Rove , D!ck Cheney, Rummy, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity ,Pig with lipstick,Ann Coultier, Fox News
 

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The Hammer & Anvil
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3,559 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What a horrible agenda!

1. Promote American global leadership (vs muslim leadership or UN leadership, or Chinese leadership)

Why don't we just grow up? Take care of our country hedge our own bets and get our asses educated instead of trolling the rest of the planet in search of ways to prop up our worthless dollar?

2. Military strength (vs being a punching bag for the petty dictators)

Defense and Offense. Obviously you don't know the difference, and you said petty dictators not me, so why bother wasting AMERICAN lives on such things go back to my point in #1.

3. Moral clarity ( by all means let us accept depravity)

Moral clarity given by who? 1million Iraqi civilians dead, depleted uranium poison for the next 100 generations. Yea moral clarity is determined by who holds the gun to your head. I pray no one ever gets to witness this so called "moral clarity" first hand in this country.

And the critic cited is: Ebrahim Afsah,

Who cites

Jochen Bölsche's view that """the goal of the PNAC was world dominance or global hegemony by the United States."""

As opposed to the UN or the muslim countries having global dominance?

Why are you polarizing the argument against Muslims? Or for anything. World dominance is the goal of FOOLS and fools will spend all capital to obtain the impossible. IE IMMORTALITY, IE Becoming the next Alexander the great. IE selling your soul (if you believe you have one) in order to pave the road to wherever it is they want to go.

Why can't we prosper and take care of our own and raise our own self awareness and education?


OK Ebrahim, it's hard for me to decide which is worse!!!!!!
Seriously some text book answers. Good news for you though is you are totally programmed in your responses by using conflict and polarization. US vs Them.

We are all god's children and every element of every society has its bad who wishes to keep what is has and take from those who do and keep from those who do not. Those people are who are in control right now and you have fallen for their 2 bit propaganda show hook like and sinker.

You asked me in another thread what my answer to everything was and I responded and you never came back.:upsidedown:
 

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Who are you to make generalizations like this?
Seriously some text book answers. Good news for you though is you are totally programmed in your responses by using conflict and polarization. US vs Them.

We are all god's children and every element of every society has its bad who wishes to keep what is has and take from those who do and keep from those who do not. Those people are who are in control right now and you have fallen for their 2 bit propaganda show hook like and sinker.

"""
Defense and Offense. Obviously you don't know the difference"""....


You asked me in another thread what my answer to everything was and I responded and you never came back.:upsidedown:
The reason I didn't respond is because I disagreed with infantile solutions. I have found that anytime you encounter disagreement with your position you respond as you have responded here, with insults and demeaning comments. You then hide behind your moderator status and start hunting for ways to retaliate.

What do you know about me? Nothing. The only "programing" I have is 60 years of experiences on this rock. The only things I have fallen for are My convictions formed over those 60 years.

If you want to fall for the propaganda that you believe in, that everything in the world is America's fault, well, you're in your 20's, I believe. Maybe you'll mature and see the error of your ways.
 

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The Hammer & Anvil
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
The reason I didn't respond is because I disagreed with infantile solutions. I have found that anytime you encounter disagreement with your position you respond as you have responded here, with insults and demeaning comments. You then hide behind your moderator status and start hunting for ways to retaliate.

What do you know about me? Nothing. The only "programing" I have is 60 years of experiences on this rock. The only things I have fallen for are My convictions formed over those 60 years.

If you want to fall for the propaganda that you believe in, that everything in the world is America's fault, well, you're in your 20's, I believe. Maybe you'll mature and see the error of your ways.
I hide behind my moderator status? Seriously? Is that the best you can come up with? Infantile by who's assertion just yours? That's wonderful so by your thinking If i don't agree with you I'm stupid and that because you won't debate or refute anything I say the only defense you have publicly is that I have a moderator tag that has never been used against anyone on the forum?

Really? GTFO. I welcome opposition especially when it comes to opinion I don't need anyone to agree with me and I'm not on a crusade but people like you are.

And then you choose my age after my moderator status? Why don't you just go ahead and call me out for being a poor white slob or rich suburban neocon? Maybe you will see past your own bull **** and form an opinion on your own.

Until then keep whining like Obama about how its someone elses fault, how I hide behind my mod status and i'm stupid.

Fact:

I have never used my moderator status for anything except clearing grievances in the security section, don't think so? Ask every other mod and KEV. I have never issued an infraction in result to any thread I participated in nor as far as I know has any other moderator or Kev. If you really do feel the way you do stop barking about it every time I call you out in a thread and you resort to the typical shenanigans, go to the security section file a complaint, contact kev or another mod but please stop trying to dirty my name because I don't follow your party line.

I'd step down as a mod to prove a point but then you and your little clique would just scream you defeated another one of those "other" people and look for the next person to QQ and cry about.

As far as my response being infantile, I'd say hanging all those responsible and restoring the constitution to be a pretty dam big idea because your Republican part has failed at it since Lincoln and the left failed since it's inception. So please show me where the contract for America or w/e bs your party is spitting out to con you out of your time, money and life to ever have been effective at anything except just that conning YOU.

I think people learning to be responsible for themselves is the key, obviously you have yet to cross that bridge or you would not be troubling yourself with responses particularly like the one I am responding to, instead we would be discussing something intelligent which seems beyond the grasp of those who are still drinking the right/left wing kool - aide.

Keep on keeping on and God bless you, but please gtfo unless you are actually going to try.
 

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The Hammer & Anvil
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Neocons aren't new and they're anything but conservative

Neocons are the militant wing of the old socialist Democrats

They support a welfare state, big government, foreign interventionism, open borders, and globalism.
QFT. QFE.

I'm glad their are folks here who see it for what it is and use the term appropriately.
 

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"Francis Fukuyama interview: 'Socialism ought to come back'"

History is having its revenge on Francis Fukuyama. In 1992, at the height of post-Cold War liberal exuberance, the American political theorist wrote in The End of History and the Last Man: “What we may be witnessing… is the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalisation of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government.”

Twenty-six years later, from the US to Russia, Turkey to Poland, and Hungary to Italy, an Illiberal International is advancing. Fukuyama’s new book Identity: The Demand for Dignity and the Politics of Resentment (his ninth) seeks to grapple with these forces. But when I met the 65-year-old Stanford academic at our offices in London, he was careful to emphasise the continuity in his thought. “What I said back then [1992] is that one of the problems with modern democracy is that it provides peace and prosperity but people want more than that… liberal democracies don’t even try to define what a good life is, it’s left up to individuals, who feel alienated, without purpose, and that’s why joining these identity groups gives them some sense of community.”
 

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Combat marxism Now!
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Neocons aren't new and they're anything but conservative

Neocons are the militant wing of the old socialist Democrats

They support a welfare state, big government, foreign interventionism, open borders, and globalism,
You forgot the most important part: , while claiming they don't.

There is a reason it says "I give up" under my screen name. It's because both political parties have the same goals and they are strongly at odds with my goals. I'm just a "tool" to them. Illegals pour over the border by the millions, then we are told there are only 20 million of them here. Our jobs are given to them, our taxes pay for them, and entire shining cities are given over to invaders. All while the infanticide of fifty million continues unabated. Meanwhile we are being systematically disarmed.

The video was posted about 911. Had American Citizens, and only American Citizens been "allowed" to carry onboard, this never would have happened. The few (carry while aloft) aviation "incidents" that would have occurred pale in comparison to the 10,000 dead Americans and 500,000 dead foreigners that were the direct result of 911.

I don't care one bit who did it or why. I care that we are being systematically prevented from defending ourselves from those with evil intentions.
 

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The bush era neocons are the closest the deep state has ever gotten to the surface. When Kennedy gave his speech about the “ruthless and monolithic conspiracy” he was undoubtedly talking about people who eventually went on to form PNAC. Kennedy was the highest ranking whistleblower in American history, followed closely by Eisenhower when he warned of the military industrial complex.
They didn’t exaggerate the dangers of these people, if anything they were reserved in their warnings
 

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all I know is, anyone who ever called me that is the kind of person who would benefit from a baseball bat to the face. no explanation why, just swing that thing.

This thread is older than my underwear(I really ought to buy some new pairs).
in my experience if you wear the same pair for more than ten days you grow attached to them. you get what those kind of people call separation anxiety.
 
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